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mother dark's tear from the tiste andii - explanation

#1 User is offline   haroos 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM

this is one of the points that i'm at a loss in the series.

the only thing i have going is the explanation about the realms in the 3rd book, given by k'rul iirc.
he said there was a realm of darkness that was chased by chaos as it migrated in the cosmos (?).
(he said it was how it was normaly, so chaos is actualy trying to return to the prime state of being as one with darkness).

and later from the 8th book i gathered that the mother's tearing made the realm inert, and that chaos was drawing, so the sword's slaves made the realm move
(the gate to it was inside the cart).

and rake returned the realm to the mother, thereby attaching the tiste andii back to it, and returning things to normal.

if all this is correct, then several questions are unaswered :
1) how did draconus know to make the sword with it's special qualities in the first place ?
and does that mean he orchestrated the mother's tearing from her children ?
2) is things have returned to how they were as far as chaos and darkness are concerned, then how will it affect the world.
3) where is the mother ?

This post has been edited by haroos: 16 August 2010 - 04:49 PM


#2 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:14 PM

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

1) how did draconus know to make the sword with it's special qualities in the first place ?
and does that mean he orchestrated the mother's tearing from her children ?


In the begining, before the Holds and the Houses, there was wandering. I can't recall the specifics, but basically, before order was instated. Things just did their natural stuff, the elements and the worlds just went about their natural migration. And it was good.

Things were created and Chaos tried to eat them because that is the nature of Chaos and Order.

Draconus saw this eternal struggle, Chaos dogging Darkness heels, and he thought, hey, I'll just create a giant wagon to house Darkness and fill it with souls to "POOSH LITTLE CART" and that will be a much better solution than just keeping his nose out of things that don't concern him.

Basically he made mistake, he made things worse because he limited Darkness freedom.

At least that's what it looks like, I'm sure some crazy little tidbit in the next book might reveal that there was some other reason to Draconus doing what he did.

As for the break between MD and her children, we actually got to see that event in TTH in the memories of the old Andii mage, can't remember his name. He was there in the Temple when Rake returned to Kharkanas after having killed or sheboinged Tiam and drank her blood. That was what made MD turn her back on them. It was too much.

MD was the driving force of Order, Tiam was the Matron of Dragons, creatures of Chaos. Rake, the First Son of Darkness, allowed himself to be tainted by chaos. It was a slap in her face.

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

2) is things have returned to how they were as far as chaos and darkness are concerned, then how will it affect the world.


It shouldn't affect the world since Darkness and the Tiste Worlds lie outside the realm of Wu. Maybe a ton of old Cults devoted to Darkness and MD might return. Maybe all the Andii in Black Coral threw a fit. But it probably wont be a world changing event.

But it does mean that a very powerful and very important Elder power is now active again. This may have a significance in the Pantheon(s).

One important consequence how ever may come around. If MD becomes active it may mean that Father Light shows up. And then you have a reawakening of faith for the Liosan.

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

3) where is the mother ?


Read DOD.
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#3 User is offline   haroos 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:20 PM

View PostAptorian, on 16 August 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

1) how did draconus know to make the sword with it's special qualities in the first place ?
and does that mean he orchestrated the mother's tearing from her children ?


In the begining, before the Holds and the Houses, there was wandering. I can't recall the specifics, but basically, before order was instated. Things just did their natural stuff, the elements and the worlds just went about their natural migration. And it was good.

Things were created and Chaos tried to eat them because that is the nature of Chaos and Order.

Draconus saw this eternal struggle, Chaos dogging Darkness heels, and he thought, hey, I'll just create a giant wagon to house Darkness and fill it with souls to "POOSH LITTLE CART" and that will be a much better solution than just keeping his nose out of things that don't concern him.

Basically he made mistake, he made things worse because he limited Darkness freedom.

At least that's what it looks like, I'm sure some crazy little tidbit in the next book might reveal that there was some other reason to Draconus doing what he did.

As for the break between MD and her children, we actually got to see that event in TTH in the memories of the old Andii mage, can't remember his name. He was there in the Temple when Rake returned to Kharkanas after having killed or sheboinged Tiam and drank her blood. That was what made MD turn her back on them. It was too much.

MD was the driving force of Order, Tiam was the Matron of Dragons, creatures of Chaos. Rake, the First Son of Darkness, allowed himself to be tainted by chaos. It was a slap in her face.

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

2) is things have returned to how they were as far as chaos and darkness are concerned, then how will it affect the world.


It shouldn't affect the world since Darkness and the Tiste Worlds lie outside the realm of Wu. Maybe a ton of old Cults devoted to Darkness and MD might return. Maybe all the Andii in Black Coral threw a fit. But it probably wont be a world changing event.

But it does mean that a very powerful and very important Elder power is now active again. This may have a significance in the Pantheon(s).

One important consequence how ever may come around. If MD becomes active it may mean that Father Light shows up. And then you have a reawakening of faith for the Liosan.

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

3) where is the mother ?


Read DOD.



i started yesterday, do you envy me ?
it was sitting in for a month, i had a hard feeling that i might finaly be disappointed with a malazan novel, but starting the book with those soldiers
is just a great start.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by haroos: 16 August 2010 - 06:33 PM


#4 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 06:23 PM

Oh better spoiler that DOD piece there Haroos.

DOD is a slow book. But you can feel that things are coming to a head, so it's definitely worth getting through it. And the ending is crazy.
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#5 User is offline   Harvester 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:00 PM

Wait...wait wait... I have another question: There is one scene, I guess that it is somewhere in MT, where Silchas Ruin? mentions that MD is trapped in a bubble of light (the last gift of Father Light) surrounded by deadly magic corrupted by the KCCM - did I dream that or did it really happen? It hasn't been mentioned again.
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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:27 PM

It was the Matron death curse. It will apparently undo the universe or something. Which is weird, since Wu for example isn't inside darkness as far as we understand. Anyway, MD is fucked. With In another billion years she will die... poor thing.
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#7 User is offline   Harvester 

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:43 PM

Thanks! Posted Image
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Posted 17 August 2010 - 03:53 PM

One consequence of MD's return may well be that positions in HHD begin to be filled. Rake had been alone in occupying the sole filled position in HHD for a looooong time. Now none of the positions are filled. Does QB get the Magus of Dark position? Or was just Fid's reading? Where does MD recruit for positions in the house? From the Shake? Draconus as Consort?
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#9 User is offline   zenMichael 

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:10 PM

View PostClockwork Apt, on 16 August 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

View Postharoos, on 16 August 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

2) is things have returned to how they were as far as chaos and darkness are concerned, then how will it affect the world.


One important consequence how ever may come around. If MD becomes active it may mean that Father Light shows up. And then you have a reawakening of faith for the Liosan.



So I was actually searching the forums about this very thing, and this quote struck me because I swear I just read in my reread of MT last night (of course now I can't find the quote) that Father Light is trapped in the moon. Which of course makes the moon shattering & the hounds of light appearing seem very interesting ...

So. Um. Kept searching after I wrote this & of course there was a post later where SpecterofEschaton brought this very quote up & talked about it. so sorry for doubling up here. if you didn't catch it & are interested, it's the post titled 'hint from midnight tides'

This post has been edited by zenMichael: 17 February 2011 - 04:13 PM

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