[KingTeholBeddict]

Well, I've been wondering about this for quite some time, I know the K'Chain Che'Malle have a warren, and the K'Chain Nah'Ruk seem to use lightning as magic. but I also remember that K'ell Hunter Sag'Churok mentioned to the destriant that life was magic, and i wondered basically just what the Che'Malle have a warren for. I mean why don't they just use the life-force of the creatures, why do they need to draw from a warren?

[Sinisdar Toste]

true we don't know if short-tails and long-tails use the same kind of magic, but there's more evidence to support the theory that they do. from DoD we get the name kep'rah to describe the weapons of the nah'ruk. whether kep'rah is the name of a warren i don't know, but it seems likely. the nah'ruk are different from the che'malle in the respect that the che'malle give up all their magical potential to the matrons. supposedly the nah'ruk do not, though the nah'ruk of history and the nah'ruk we see in DoD could be very different groups. either way i don't think that it's really magic like say, maenas or serc would be, or even kurald galain or omtose phellack. kep'rah, or w.e you want to call it seems like a way to create electricity out of nothing or maybe it is technological. hard to say really. is their technology their magic? or is their magic separate from their technology?

edit: as to the "magic is life" issue, i think its more of a cosmic scale analogy that works on micro and macro levels. sure all the creatures of the earth carry power in their blood, but you have to spill that blood to gain its power, and i don't imagine that a orthens heartblood would contain as much power as say, a matrons. sure you can nickel and dime your way into some power, but like the nah'ruk might have said, maybe, one time: "why nickel and dime when you can crucify dragons?"

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 14 July 2010 - 04:01 AM

[Aptorian]

The KCCM do have a warren. It's called Kashan or something like that, can't quite recall the name, but it is mentioned in MT. It is based on sound and gravitational force... or something.

The lightning we see in DOD might not actually be magic magic, but rather mechanically generated electricity. The KCNR were wearing proton packs and they probably have some big ass generators on board the sky keeps.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 14 July 2010 - 04:09 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Kaschan is the warren.

Also, why do you need a warren? To fly huge fucking dragon mountains around and shoot laser beams at other huge flying fortresses.

[Eispeis]

Aptorian, on 14 July 2010 - 04:09 AM, said:

It is based on sound and gravitational force.

The lightning we see in DOD might not actually be magic magic, but rather mechanically generated electricity.

I would think that the weapons in DoD are mechanically generated, but on the other hand:
[harebrained science]
Gravitational force ≈magnetism
Magnetism ≈ electromagnetic power/static electricity = KABLAMMO
[/harebrained science]

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

When I don't know the warren, I insert the power of Greyskull!

However. Kaschan, si? Also oddly enough, given my interest in all the other warrens/holds/houses for other races, when it comes to the KKCM, they're so different, as soon as I saw lazer flying skykeeps, I didn't care ~what~ they used, I just knew it was BADASS.

[D'rek]

The Kaschan term comes from Fear Sengar speaking at the Stone Bowl in MT. Feel free to digress about how in the hell Fear would know so much about lizard that have been dead for hundreds of thousands of years.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

The women? Blame his mother, and her mother, and her mother, and her mother...

[RSM616]

i dont fully understand certain aspects of the K'chain and would appreciate it if someone could clear this up just it seems that this race is the most technologically advanced race verging almost on scifi with their sky keeps and technology despite it being millennia older than when the books are set yet no other race has masterd anything near as complex. if anyone could elaborate on the kchain and explain this it would be much appreciated

This post has been edited by RSM616: 02 August 2010 - 12:29 PM

[Lister of Smeg]

I think it's because the Short-Tails relied more upon technology (like the nodes they used against the Bonehunters) than on magic, so they made a lot of advances. But then they were almost wiped out by the civil war so a lot of their work was lost. While other races like Jaghut, Imass and humans use magic which tends to limit technological advances. After all, why create a machine to do something if magic works just as well?

BTW, punctuation is your friend.

[End of Disc One]

If their warren is Kashan then what the hell is Kep'rah? The undead Jaghust mentioned Kep'rah when they went to fight the Nah'ruk.

[champ]

End of Disc One, on 02 August 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

If their warren is Kashan then what the hell is Kep'rah? The undead Jaghust mentioned Kep'rah when they went to fight the Nah'ruk.

iirc Kep'rah is the weapons they use, the lightening lances

[Sinisdar Toste]

RSM616, on 02 August 2010 - 12:28 PM, said:

i dont fully understand certain aspects of the K'chain and would appreciate it if someone could clear this up just it seems that this race is the most technologically advanced race verging almost on scifi with their sky keeps and technology despite it being millennia older than when the books are set yet no other race has masterd anything near as complex. if anyone could elaborate on the kchain and explain this it would be much appreciated

any sufficiently advanced technology will appear to be magic. we all know this. there is a theory that the k'chain warren of kaschan (supposedly a warren of sound and vibrations) is what makes their mechanical contraptions work, but we really don't have anything that solid to go on. DoD is the only reliable source we have immo. everything else is 3,000th hand, passed down through decaying scraps of hide and ol' kallor's dusty brain-box and some edur myths that may or may not be accurate

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 03 August 2010 - 01:31 AM

[GingerBreadMan]

champooon, on 02 August 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 02 August 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

If their warren is Kashan then what the hell is Kep'rah? The undead Jaghust mentioned Kep'rah when they went to fight the Nah'ruk.

iirc Kep'rah is the weapons they use, the lightening lances

Didn't they respond by saying Omptose Phellack never had much trouble dealing with Kep'rah?

Which definitely makes it seem like Kep'rah is the warren used by the Short Tails..or perhaps it refers to the way the Short Tail seem to wield their sorcery via the lightning backpacks?

[D'rek]

GingerBreadMan, on 03 August 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

champooon, on 02 August 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 02 August 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

If their warren is Kashan then what the hell is Kep'rah? The undead Jaghust mentioned Kep'rah when they went to fight the Nah'ruk.

iirc Kep'rah is the weapons they use, the lightening lances

Didn't they respond by saying Omptose Phellack never had much trouble dealing with Kep'rah?

Which definitely makes it seem like Kep'rah is the warren used by the Short Tails..or perhaps it refers to the way the Short Tail seem to wield their sorcery via the lightning backpacks?

Or its just commentary on how lasers are ineffective against walls of ice. Kep'rah could still be technological and not be effective against Omtose Phellack.

[GingerBreadMan]

D, on 04 August 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

GingerBreadMan, on 03 August 2010 - 05:39 AM, said:

champooon, on 02 August 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 02 August 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

If their warren is Kashan then what the hell is Kep'rah? The undead Jaghust mentioned Kep'rah when they went to fight the Nah'ruk.

iirc Kep'rah is the weapons they use, the lightening lances

Didn't they respond by saying Omptose Phellack never had much trouble dealing with Kep'rah?

Which definitely makes it seem like Kep'rah is the warren used by the Short Tails..or perhaps it refers to the way the Short Tail seem to wield their sorcery via the lightning backpacks?

Or its just commentary on how lasers are ineffective against walls of ice. Kep'rah could still be technological and not be effective against Omtose Phellack.

Good point

[Sanctume]

Wasn't there a reference to Blueiron, some sort of life in machines, or magic in machines?
It was in the dragon city where Taxillian and company were.
And Feather Witch was going nuts reading the tiles and mentioned Blueiron.

I did a google book search to "blueiron dust of dream" and got this:
http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

[IgnatiusKruppe]

On my re-read I was surprised when Fear mentioned warrens in The Stone Bowl.. I thought they didn't know about warrens? Granted, the Sengar kids tend to listen to the women, and the women probably knew all about everything.

[IgnatiusKruppe]

er not that they didn't "know" about warrens but that they would use that word since The Elder Warrens were (presumably?) called Holds everywhere until the magic evolved.