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Nationalism celebrating our cultures

#1 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 02:18 AM

It came to me in the WWII thread that this is probably the most culturally diverse of the message boards that I attend, except perhaps Piano Society (and the members there do not much get into off-topic discussion). It also came to me that there seems to be theme of cultural defensiveness here, which is especially noticeable on the DB and in the Inn, though it tends to get more heated here. There were a couple of threads a while back about 10 things...something. America and Europe, if I recall, and we have a good few members from outside those places, and the threads were silly to begin with, so they weren't all that successful. So, I thought it would be good to have a thread where we can all display a little good-spirited nationalism.

Tell us about the country where you were raised, and also what region of that country. Tell us about the regional differences in your own country. If you have moved around, tell us about the various places you lived, where you live now. Compare them. Tell us about the things in your culture and your history that you feel are overlooked or misunderstood. Tell us what you think about the role of your country in the global community, and tell us what you think about your country's future, your hopes and your fears. Wiki links are good too. You can post as many times as you like if you think of more things. Feel free to question other members, but try to always make it clear where you're from, for context.

Also, it would be a good thread to refer to when we wonder (especially on the DB) where members are from, because it's always relevant in topics that have global significance, because the propaganda that we are raised with will always affect our opinions on these things. But for those of us who are paying attention from the beginning, it would be a great way to get to know everyone in the context of what we are (a global community, though it is of course primarily populated by folks from English-speaking countries...we can all afford to learn a little more about each other).

This is sort of a Shinrei-inspired thread; I know he likes this sort of thing. :) I will post a little later with my own thoughts.

Edit: This thread is awesome! I will keep a running tally of countries represented here, organized roughly by continent, with the English-speaking countries at the bottom. Africa is as yet underrepresented (I know we have some South Africans here!) and of course Asia, India, and South America are (perhaps unsurprisingly) underrepresented. Would also love to hear more from countries already represented; the USA and Canada are big places with lots of culture to share, for example, and of course Europe is a smorgasbord (yes, I know we stole that word from the Sveedish).

Africa:

Asia:

USA---Japan [Shinrei]
Japan [Shinrei]

South America:

Canada---(Guyana) [D'rek]

Continental Europe:

Denmark: Copenhagen [Aptorian]
Netherlands: Holland: The Hague [Tapper]
Italy: Apulia [Bauchelain the Evil]
Czech Republic [Ulrik]
Austria: Upper Austria [Salk Elan]
Norway [Bestemoor]
Poland [Gothos]
Ukraine: Kharklv---Germany: Rhine-Ruhr [Puck]
Ukraine: L'viv---Canada [Mentalist]

Down Under:

Australia: Sydney [Cold Iron]
New Zealand: Auckman [Silencer]
Australia: Sydney---Melbourne [MTS]
New Zealand: Auckman [Soulessdreamer]

British Isles:

UK: Scotland: Highlands [Mott]
UK: England: Lancashire: Manchester [Cougar]
Ireland [Skorz]
Ireland: Dublin [powermad]

North America:

USA---Japan [Shinrei]
USA: Arizona [Nicodimas]
Canada---(Guyana) [D'rek]
USA: Mississippi: Gulfport---Louisiana: Baton Rouge [Terez]
Canada: Southeast Atlantic Canada [cerveza_fiesta]
USA: Minnesota [Obdigore]

This post has been edited by Terez: 21 July 2010 - 12:22 AM

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#2 User is offline   Shinrei 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:22 AM

Long Long Ago I got into an argument with Fool over nationalism. He was arguing that nationalism is silly, and that a farmer in the US has more in common with a farmer in the UK than the farmer in the US has with the waiter in NY City.

I still don't agree with his position exactly, but I have personally mellowed considerably since then when it comes to the thought of nationalism and "love for country".

I love the US, having been born and raised there, but I don't believe that the US is some sort of superior place to everywhere else. You won't find me arguing the US was more important that Russian in WWII for example :)

This isn't to say that I don't believe there are things that the US has/does better than other countries when doing direct comparisons. But the US doesn't have a monopoly on having superior points, or superior points that are unshared with other places.


To answer the "where do you feel misunderstood" question, I will offer this:

I had an interesting conversation with an Aussie co-worker at lunch yesterday. He basically admitted that when he hears Americans (not only me) talking about belief in the benefits of limited government, it "does not compute" in his mind. He grew up with a different view of the role of government, and I see basically the same thinking on this DB. I see this from some posters here who are not from the US when they criticise the idea of limited government. They give the impression that the very idea "does not compute". Which is fine TBH. If a more proactive and socialist leaning government works in your neck of the woods, that's fine. I'm happy for Morgy to be living in his Socialist paradise. :p However I don't feel that increased federal powers over the daily life of citizens is right for the US. So I really dislike comments along the lines of "congratulations America on getting socialized medicine, like the rest of the civilized world". :) Even progressives/liberals like Terez and HD, I feel, at least understand my arguments better than some of the non-USians on the board.

Japan has certainly taught me that I can love an adopted country as much as my birthplace. At this time, I prefer living here, and will do so indefinately. Where I take interest in the issues of my home country, I don't feel any great loss by living abroad, nor do I feel any sort of fierce pride towards the US. If in some crazy dreamworld Japan and USA had played the world cup final, I would be happy regardless of who won. I love the Olympics even more now, since I get 2 countries to cheer for. :D

I'll probably have more to say, but I'll wait and see how this thread develops further. Thanks for the topic love Terez. :p
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#3 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 08:19 AM

I live in Denmark which, ignoring all those little island nations, must be one of the worlds smallest countries. Our population is somewhere around 5,5 million. Having such a small population in a relatively small country I think has created a country that is very solid in its self image. We know who we are, even though we jokingly point out the eccentricities of East (Country bumpkins, reserve Germans) and West (City slickers, reserve Swedes) you're going to feel at home in any part of the country. It's probably a result of being sandwiched between two historically dangerous neighbours, Sweden and Germany (DENMARK WILL RISE AGAIN, YOU LAND STEALING BASTARDS!)

Traditionally our awareness of the outside worlds cultures has been similarly "small". Denmark is often lauded for being a front runner of free speech, what with the first legalisation of Pornography, the Muhammed Drawings, etc. but honestly it has more to do with us being a bit blunt and oblivious. As a people we don't care that much for tradition or what is politically correct. You're not going to see a Dane swearing a allegiance to a flag. We just like openness and freedom. Freedom for our self that is. It's only with the advent of globalisation and the influx of especially American media that we are beginning to mirror our own culture in the outside world. I've heard stories of foreigners coming to live in Denmark and finding us horrifically racist and uncouth. The thing is, that's not so much racism as it is a "lacking understanding" that just stating what you think of another culture shouldn't be expressed so candidly.

Something that sums up Danish society and our values very well is a "law" written by a satirist in the early 1900s, made for a play about a small community and its small mindedness. In the story it is pointed at the working class, but it's a great reflection of our society in general. It's called "Janteloven" or "The Law of Jante".

Quote

Janteloven på engelsk - The Law of Jante
1. You shall not think that you are special
2. You shall not think that you are of the same standing as us
3. You shall not think that you are wiser than us
4. Don't fancy yourself as being better than us
5. You shall not think that you know more than us
6. You shall not think that you are more (important) than us
7. You shall not think that you are good at anything
8. You shall not laugh at us
9. You shall not think that anyone cares about you
10. You shall not think that you can teach us anything


There was also written a positive version during the 70s (damn hippies) but it's not as much fun.

Janteloven sort of embodies our way of looking at our society. Don't think you're special. Of course this isn't some Orwellian big brother mentality, rather it is a practical outlook on our society. Everyone is equal. Everyone has the same rights. Just because you are rich don't go around flaunting it, just because you are powerful be careful how you wield that power, just because you're the Queen don't think you're the boss of me, etc. Our priminister and the other high ranking politicians don't own mansions, they live on the same streets as the factory workers and school teachers. You can drive right up to the door of the Queens residence and knock on her door (ok, a soldier with a big hat is going to get annoyed if you do that, but it's still possible).

As for our role in the future? I don't know what that is. We're such a small country. We don't have many natural resources. Our farmers can't really compete with other countries export. Neither can our fishing communities. Even our Bacon is in trouble because we can't keep our prices down. The one thing we have going for us is free education. The one thing we can export is expertise. Denmark is focusing on research and information as a growing trade. That is probably where we are going.

Of course, much of this is my view, maybe Sindriss will chime in with some arguments of his own.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 10 July 2010 - 08:23 AM

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#4 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 08:20 AM

Nationalism is a terrible thing. Boooh!. I do however like this post. It's a amazing idea for a completely different reason. I would have to go back, because I view history to be extremely important. My father was from Detroit and grew up in the projects in the 50/60s. My mom grew up in Arizona and went to Catholic School. So the family was extremely conservative. This is both religiously and monetarily. I feel its extremely important to break down the level of goverment that America for a unknown reason has embraced. It truly baffles me as this is a old direction that will just lead to bad deals for all involved. To me it's kind of like looking back at the old trades the Indians got taken for. We will give you alchohol if you give us those things that are actually valuable to us. It's really hard to conceptilize, as I realize many people are all for the controls being handed over to big brother as it makes their life seem easier at the end of the day. To me the fear truly lies in the fact it get wasted on a single person's agenda, not that persons agenda. A person's single agenda is so important that getting lost for a variety of reasons in life is tragic. I see it all the time, but that's a education debate as most people are capable of so much more.

Regional Differences: AZ is really the best state you can get into. The least likely spot in the country to experience a national disaster and year round SPORTS are huge here. The outdoor genre is also very important. Though we really lack a downtown atmosphere and are spread out. Everyone migrates here and it's extremely rare to find natives like myself. We are definitely mixing it up out here imo as everyone has a different ethic/cultural background.AZ is extremely laid back as you really don't have the gang issue here as you do in many large metros. I know of three presences in the state compared to say L.A./Chicago which isn't to bad at all. Kidnappings are bad, but that's usually ransoms from the Mexican Cartels. That's a real hush/hush subject that happens here and everyone knows about it. Compliance and all that. I would Argue Arizona is definitely part of the south as you do see confederate flags here. I wouldn't say it's near say South Carolina by any means. The gun culture here is good times as people believe in personal freedoms here probably more than any other place I have been to. People Republic of California, not so much and that's always been our nemesis in terms of states. Uppity is the phrase to describe them. I have been everywhere in the states.


Future goals: Goverment/Corporations to be broken down into the small bits as possible down to the individual. This individual will figure out where the importance is.

True future fear: "I'm Sorry sir you did not fill out Form SD-12414 and you have been moved back in line for that surgery.You will now need to fill out Forms SD-2423 through 2427 and those have additional processing time due to the 3-5 day processing time that the Department of Interior of NanoTech. The Department of NanoTech will then require time to make these adjustments with there Compliance officers".

Good Video about my goals for our country:
Short:

Long:
!
-If it's ka it'll come like a wind, and your plans will stand before it no more than a barn before a cyclone
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#5 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 09:03 AM

I live in the Netherlands (which is something other than Holland, by the by, see below).

Around 16 million people, main religion is something-or-other-is-out-there-ism and/or agnosts, second religion is Roman Catholic, then various Protestant thingies, and we have around one million muslims, too. No Jedi Knights, to my knowledge :)

We're a parlamentiary kingdom, and the royal figurehead has slightly more power than the Scandinavian model, that is to say, our Queen has certain political duties/ influence as well. Luckily, the old bat on the Throne is quite crafty.
The Netherlands are split into twelve provinces (plus the Antilles, Aruba etc), only two of which are proper Holland (the coastal areas). You'll be quietly insulting everyone else when you call the country Holland, but keep it up anyway.

Freedomwise, we're an open society becoming more closed. After 9/11 and two political murders, there is a distinct trend towards cutting back on traditional rights and freedoms, and the two things we may be most famous for with backpackers, (the hash 'legalization' and red light district) are suffering as a result.

Xenophobia is spreading, and where I once would have said that there is no real national identity apart from the tendency to become orange clad clowns whenever we're in the final stages of a main sports event, I'm not so sure nowadays.
If anything, the country is currently in search of a national identity. Since we have been a country of immigrants throughout the ages, that's a tough thing to do, but we revert to an idealized vision of tolerance, democracy and economic esprit de corps:
according to the average dutchman, we were the first republic in Europe (incorrect), we valued universal freedom (incorrect, we abolished slavery and introduced voting rights for women and lower classes quite late), we were religiously tolerant (incorrect, the Catholics only got to built churches after 1848), we won half of our country from the sea, and so on.

Funnily enough, while the view incorporates tolerance, there is no place in it for muslims in our country. Holland should apparently be a country of country churches, wind mills, canals, green pastures, and blond, blue eyed tall people. A bit like a Hallmark card, actually.

It doesn't go much deeper than that. We do not have a lot of a sense of our own history, nor are the arts overly appreciated. You will be hard pressed to find someone who knows about our cultural past, despite having spawned several world renowned artists like Rembrandt and Van Gogh and scientists and thinkers like Van Leeuwenhoek and Erasmus.

Finally, we consider ourselves the most globalized country on earth, where everyone speaks decent english and has good manners. In reality, we're not much different from how Apt describes the Danes: blunt, uncouth and, in addition, not very welcoming. I can say from personal experience that most northern and eastern european teenagers have a better grasp of English than their equivalents here in Holland have, for example.

Social life is almost exclusively indoors and you need an invitation to get there, and you won't get one for a long time. I also heard many companies are avoiding Amsterdam, as they consider us terribly impolite... and they're not entirely wrong, from what I've seen about the level of service abroad.

It's going to be a bit of a problem, actually, as our universities and their research opportunities are falling behind in quality (and we're lagging behind in female participation in the economy, as well), considering we're not a manufacturing country either, so we're going to have to find a new niche other than cheese and Heineken.

So, all in all, we're in a flux at the moment, and I wonder where we'll emerge. There's this conflict underneath our skin going on between a return to our (imagined) past and autarky and dealing with the future, which for a small country as ours, means adjusting to a more open world and economic dependency on the European and global market.
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#6 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 10:31 AM

I live in Italy, precisely in Apulia the so called heel of Italy.

I'm proud of my nation's past. Our capital, Rome, once conquered half the world and in the Renaissance period Italy gave the world some of the greatest artists, scientists, and explorers ever. However I must say that I'm not very happy with my country now.

One of the main problems is the difference between Northern Italy and Southern Italy where I live. Many people in the North believe that we in the South are just a problem and that the Government takes all their money to give it to the South which is without doubt much poorer than the more industrialized regions of say Piedmont or Lombardy. To make matter worse a political party founded only on the supremacy of the North over the South, the Lega Nord, is now part of the Parliament and member of the governing coalition.

It must also be said that recently there have been frightening waves of xenophobia and homophobia. We Italians have forgotten how we once were emigrants and now do not want to accept those who come from less fortunate countries. Earlier this year, for example, we stopped some emigrants from Libia who claimed they were political refugees and returned them back to the hell in which they lived.

As for the homophobia it is especially frequent in Rome and I don't think it's a coincidence they started now that a neo-fascist is mayor of the city. I also believe that the problems with gay people, but even with non-married hetero couples, has to do with the costant intervention of the Vatican even in political business. It was significant the disgusting campaign brought forward by the Church against the father of a comatose woman who wanted to be terminated.

In short I think that Italy is not on par with the others "western countries" on various social problems.
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#7 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 02:11 PM

Great thread.

Australia has had a short but unique history, from some of the longest continuous cultures in human history to a convict colony, to a modern land of extreme cultural variation. I was born and raised in the largest city, Sydney, a sprawling metropolis of 5 million, almost a quarter of the total population, the nation's financial center and a thoroughly modern and picturesque city - the variations in Sydney alone could make up a doctoral thesis. I also spend long periods in remote parts of the country for work, and have previously lived in an Austrian (note the lack of l) industrial town and a Swedish university town, so I have a decent basis for comparison.

Without going too deep into immigration and associated problems I think on the whole we're doing rather well. There are no parts of the world exempt from racism and as the brilliant Muslim-Australian political professor Waleed Aly puts it, we have a high level of low-level racism. Self imposed segregation is the norm for recent immigrants but first and second generations are well integrated. Language has a lot to do with it - as an English speaking nation, we're extremely linguistically lazy and it is normal for an Australian to be completely incapable of affectively communicating even with those with a very high comparative standard of English. Regardless of what you look like, if you sound Aussie, you will be treated as one, at least in the cities. Small town folk will invariably have small minded fears when it comes to this issue and in this we are no different from anywhere else in the world, keeping in mind that there are parts of this country that are extremely isolated by distance.

Economically we are increasingly reducing ourselves to the roll of a one trick pony - we sell rocks to China. This of course exposes us to substantial risk but for the moment it's working rather well for us, indeed extremely well. We have happily continued economic growth throughout GFC and have not experienced a year of negative growth in almost two decades. We are well in favour of a floated renminbi - increased purchasing power means more purchasing.

Also, national identity is increasingly becoming little more than a tool for political spin doctors. I'll just leave that there.

This post has been edited by Cold Iron: 18 July 2010 - 11:34 PM

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#8 User is offline   Mott 

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 04:04 PM

I live in Scotland, and come from a town in the Highlands.

Scotland has more land than people, our population is only around the five million mark, and we have in recent years acquired our own devolved parliament.

It's hard to talk about national identity in Scotland without referring to our neighbours down south. For a lot of Scots out national identity is very important. We live next door to a country who ruled us for many years and have like many other countries went through periods of cultural and religious oppression. I think it has lead us to a strange mix of arrogance and self-depreciation.

We can, as a country, be extremely negative, but in a strange way have come to celebrate that. We can be quite crabbit and sometimes a little sharp. We do like to deal in insults and have quite a dark sense of humour. Personally I consider myself Scottish. It doesn't mean I'm anti-english.

For such a small country we have had a great number of inventors, innovators and thinkers. More Scots live outside of Scotland than in it, though I'm sure that's just down to the weather.

We are lucky to have good natural resources. Oil off the North coast and the potential to generate great amounts of winds energy and the right terrain for hydro plants. A lot of the traditional working class industries in recent years have failed (coal mining, ship building, great reductions in fishing, crofting etc.) Our main trade is in Tourism and Scotland is famed for its hospitality. We also make quite a lot of Whisky.

We do not spend all our time running around hills in kilts, chasing haggis and drinking whisky. We reserve that kind of behaviour for weddings.

Sectarianism has been a problem in Scotland. We are a predominantly Protestant country (presbyterian) and have a much reduced number of Catholics. Football rivalries (Celtic vs Rangers) fuelled this. This has died down in recent years with the SFA coming down hard on sectarian violence.

Free speech and equal rights are quite good. Immigration is looked upon with mixed feeling. It's hard to be critical of it considering Scotland own history of immigration. Recent large influxes though have been quite hard on some highland towns where there are not a great number of jobs and locals struggle to find employment but despite this and some early issues I think things have settled quite well.

Drug and Alcohol abuse are problems here as is diet and in some of the poorest areas of Scotland, life expectancy. Hopefully the government can find new ways to tackle these issues in the coming years. Financially things are shaky and as taxes and VAT are raised and wages frozen services are being cut. This is especially worrying here where there is not always a lot to do for teenagers who then turn to teenage binge drinking.

For the future I'd like to see a self-governing independent Scotland, steady, sustainable economic growth and an increase in public services.
Mottfather, who art in chat, hallowed be thy name, thy empire come, thy magic be done, on wu as it is in warren. give us this day our daily cahpters, and forgive us our timeline, as we forgive yours, lead us not into goodkind, but deliver us from ayn rand, for thine is the series, the epic, the glory, I<3WJ ~ Obdi and GH
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#9 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 01:50 AM

Alright, as a member of probably one of the smallest countries on this board (~4 million population, so NYAH APT) I think we went in the exact opposite direction to Denmark. Our national identity is split, with a spattering of unifying points that we probably share as much with other countries as with ourselves. The main problem is the fact that, contrary to stated goals, we seem obsessed with alienation between the 'indigenous' population and the by-now-naturalised descendants of the first European colonists and other ethnic groups. Tell me, what exactly is unifying by having two flags? By having separate seats for one ethnic group? Quotas for university courses like medicine and engineering for one ethnic group?
What is unifying about having library sections labelled in two languages? This is not unity, it's separation. Especially when it is not necessary. There's a difference between celebrating culture, keeping it alive, and using it as a political tool. The biggest problem is this insistence our country has on 'righting past wrongs' - to the point where it's simply a catch-all for one ethnic group being able to do anything, demand anything, and nearly getting away with it.

Outside of that distinction, we even have differences between population centres. The urban rat-race that is Auckland, our largest and perhaps most important city (my home...well, soon to be, once we get rid of this ridiculous grouping of three cities who are nearly directly connected - another example of our strange disunity), compared with the politically-important, centrally located Wellington, which has completely different pacing and priorities. Sure, most cities do, but this one is 6 or 7 hours' drive away, born from the same culture as Auckland almost to a T. To me, there's almost a larger distance between Auckland and Wellington than Auckland and Brisbane, and I've been to both. Then you have the South Island, which is much smaller in terms of population, but has several small cities each with their own character, but each sharing something of the 'Southern Man' influence on it. So we are again divided North/South. Within Auckland itself we have significant divisions - our own set of North/South, and also East/West, where the West is the lower socio-economic groups where most of the criminals come from. :S

Compared to the rest of the world we're tiny, but our leaders constantly insist on making us 'up there' in terms of quality of life and heck, even influence. I honestly don't see how we can do that, but hey, maybe they have info that I don't. Even so, I think we already do enjoy a quality of life equivalent, easily, to the greater US and Britain, Australia and so on. We may not have the fastest internet, but on the other hand we have much cheaper medical insurance, social aid for the people too lazy to work, and another brand of social aid for people who can't work (I personally think we should only keep the latter, but whatever). We've got some of the nicest scenery and greenest energy sources in the world (hydro-electric dams ftw...they may be worse than solar/wind in terms of environmental impact, but they're more efficient, less intrusive on people's lives, and cost the population less to install and maintain) and we have a booming agricultural and dairy industry - it's mainly what keeps us afloat. Wages are high enough to live comfortably for most (and no matter what they say, Australia's higher wages MUST equate to higher living costs...you can't get around that fact, I'm afraid).

Our social image, however, as evinced partly by my first paragraph above, is in tatters. We have serious inferiority issues, plus we have problems with our media constantly giving us bullshit like "Auckland is one of the most polluted cities in the world". Yeah, PER CAPITA. We got 1.5 million people in Auckland. Compared to Sydney? New York? Beijing? We're fucking CLEAAAAAAAAAAAN. But no, they have to do it per capita. And then advertise it on primetime news. Wtf?
We view ourselves in a pretty negative light all over, and part of that is the pushing of 'guilt' over the whole colonisation thing. It's bullshit, but we keep bringing it back up. We're a pretty good mix up of everyone else's issues, really.

Anyway, that aside, we're one of the best countries to live in in the world. We're small, not too overpopulated, plenty of green, good wages, good utilities, and nice people in general. :)
I love my country, but I'd probably love whichever country I live in, from the first-world list, at least. :)
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#10 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 05:18 AM

View PostMott, on 10 July 2010 - 04:04 PM, said:

Scotland has more land than people, our population is only around the five million mark, and we have in recent years acquired our own devolved parliament.


I'm from Canada and we laugh at statements like this. Posted Image Scotland is 5 million people in 65 000 square kilometres. Canada is 34 million people in 10 million square kilometres.

The vastness of Canada pretty much defines every aspect of it. The founding cultures of modern Canada are the british and french colonies that established across the land. Distinctly, there's the western british colony British Columbia, the main anglophone colony Upper Canada, the conquered main french colony Lower Canada, the maritime colonies which are a mix of french and british, and Newfoundland which is british. Each of these are their own meta-cultures in wide regions that are much farther spaced than entire countries anywhere else.

As a result, government, public opinion, economics, what-have-you tends to vary quite a bit across the country. It's very difficult for Canadian policy-makers to make nation-wide decisions that appease the majority because what might be of benefit to the Alberta tar sands is useless to Newfoundlanders across the continent. English and French are both official languages, but Quebec is the only primarily francophone province. As a result, Quebec enjoys a lot of benefits because of the supposed need to preserve their culture, and gets away with some flat-out tyrannical craziness (all signs - private or public - in Quebec must have french, and any english must be 35% smaller than the french).

Our political system is a multi-party system, though only 3 have electable members nation-wide. 2 of those, the Liberals and the Conservatives, always get the most votes in any national election, and so always form the government and official opposition (2nd highest. Sounds kind of like the two-party system of the States, but the other parties are influential enough that when elections are iffy we frequently get a minority government. The Canadian government 's distribution of power gives more power to the provinces than just about anywhere in the world. Provinces control policies and budget their own resources on things like infrastructure, education and health care, rather than the federal government.

The biggest chunk of population in Canada is densely packed along the Windsor-Quebec City corridor - a long narrow swath of high-population cities and towns From the bottom point of Ontario up the St. Laurence river to Quebec City. Vancouver and its environs on the west coast and the Edmonton-Calgary area in Alberta are also high-population, high-density areas. The high-density areas are the usual super-western style with a packed downtown core and big suburbs. As you get away from these areas the major towns start spacing out further - usually you start getting towns of 20 000-person towns about every 2 hours until you hit a last one and then have nothing but tiny 300 person towns extremely spaced out as you head into the enormous emptiness of the northern regions of Saskatchewan, Ontario, Quebec or B.C.

When it comes to adopting new financial, medical or industry practices, Canada usually likes to favour a long, slow analysis before officially legalizing it. Thus, every year the news has an expose on the latest miraculous treatment for some lethal condition and how those with the condition are mad at the government for not legalizing it yet. Or, for example, Canada has at least ten times higher rates for mobile data exchange than just about any country, from the UK to Rwanda because the government didn't finally decide to start fostering competing telecommunications companies until this year. The upside to this, though, is that our industries are well defended by the government from abuse and there's lots of checks in place to prevent things like sub-prime mortgage abuse or oil spills.

---

I also lived in Guyana for a tiny bit, but I was too young to really figure much of the economic or government situation. There's definitely some noticeably poor districts and low quality of life areas in Guyana, but I'm really not sure as to the scale or prevalence of such across the country. For the most part it's very nice, westernized, good infrastructure, moderately friendly people, etc.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 13 July 2010 - 05:04 PM

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#11 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 06:17 AM

This is a great idea for a thread. Nationalistic debates seem to rear their ugly head every now and then (especially in the DB), and I think it's great to get below the stereotypes and really get a glimpse at how different the societies are in which we live, for it's become especially obvious through the WWII thread how we've been raised and what we've been exposed to reflects our outlook on the world. It doesn't really occur to me how massively different some cultures are from my own, especially the subtle variations in the 'Western' countries.

As for me, I live in Australia. Moved around a bit, lived in Sydney for a spell and a couple of country towns, but now I drift between Canberra (our capital where I go to uni) and Geelong, which is a city of around 150-200,000 people about 45 minutes down the road from Melbourne. Think I'm moving to Queensland next year too...:) I suppose you could say Geelong is Melbourne's New Jersey, but it's really a great place to live.

I can't really add much more, CI did a very good job talking about our multiculturalism. I think Melbourne has (or maybe had) the 3rd largest population of Greeks in the world. If you stop to think about it, it's quite remarkable that we don't have much more racism than we do. Nowadays anyway, living here in the 1800s wouldn't have been all that great for immigrants (like the Chinese during the Gold Rush). There are and have been some pretty terrible incidents, but all in all we seem to be doing very well. It is interesting to me though the level of racism to which we have become accustomed. Some of the exchange students at uni are horrified sometimes how blatantly racist we are, but it's just become a part of the lingo, really. It's lost its bite, I guess. Being a 'wog' was almost a badge of pride for some of the kids at my school, and being called such wasn't really an issue. This is one thing we never really think about. It is racism to be sure, but like CI said, if you sound Aussie, you're generally treated like one, and the racism that I encounter is considered banter, really. It becomes a much larger issue in interactions between the segregated immigrant communities that don't speak English or wear burqas and things like that. I see a lot of 'they should respect our customs and speak our language if they want to live here' garbage trundled out all the time, and it's a real shame too.

So for such a multicultural nation, establishing an (accurate) national identity is pretty much impossible. The ANZAC/Aussie Battlers is the prominent motif, and it pretty much ignores our immigrant population. The picture of the 'everyday Australian' is either the grizzled farmer or the tradie having a beer down at the pub. Both types of people exist to be sure, but it's a picture even further removed from reality than it used to be as we've become more multicultural. At the moment though it's pretty much a political tool to catch the swing voters, like CI said, and a weapon for people to brand others as 'un-Australian'. Really hate it when the politicians use that term. Completely meaningless now. Don't have much to say on the international front. Paul Hogan (a.k.a. Crocodile Dundee) pretty much doomed us to caricature until the end of time.
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#12 User is offline   Ulrik 

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:05 AM

Czech Republic! Nation of...well, pretty confused people nowadays (but they wont admit it, because they dont know it).
Our history is like roller coaster. We have roots in 8th century (hooray)...we were many times under rule of Holy Roman Empire of German Nation (boooo)...whole Europe trembled from our Hussites (hooray)...and it sent kingdom into shit (boooo)...in 17th century we came under Habsburg empire (boooo) and developed strong national feeling from intelectual part of society in 19th century (hoooray)...and in 1918 we got independence (HOOORAY). And then came Hitler and wanted part of country - UK, France fucked our alliance and gave it during Mnichov agreement (BOOO)...then we got annected by 3rd Reich (BOOOO), killed Heydrich (hooray), got liberated, mostly by Soviets (HOOORAY...but...) and after three years went commies into power and batyushka Stalin took us into his empire (BOOOOO), we made a democratic movement in 1968 (hoooray) and got invaded by Soviets, Polaks etc (fucking booo)...1989 we got peaceful revolution (HOOORAY)...and twenty years after is our politic full of stupid decisions, same people and idiotic rhetorics (hooor...booo!).


OK, this little historical lesson defines average czech view into history. So we are really strongly proud for our history, and yeah, some kind of lazy pub nationalism. But in real, we are simply too overwhelmed by laziness to think and our next minister of internal affairs will be useless journalist with corruption cause but great medial campaign. It sucks. Its harmless but it sucks.

10 millions of people, but number is lowering.

We hate Germans...but mostly we like them. We like Americans...but sometimes despise them... We hate russians...but its not Soviet anymore, so wake up Czechs.

We are afraid of being torn into black pit of economics as Greece was. So we elected same minister that drove economy that way, but now he "think completely different way". But our economy isnt so fucked up, its just recent elections rhetorics.

We have solid science, some world top experts, solid heavy industry...and agriculture that goes to hell.

And yeah, we have famous president that travels over the world and says that Global Warming is myth. Ugh...

Future is...probably same as present. We will have bad politics, but so far they didnt broke rule of free medical care. But they´ll broke free education at universities and our sheeps just boo in agreement, mostly from social parts with only high school educated people. Next four years, without Green Party in parlament we will abandon ecological path. And we will be torn into three ways - EU, USA and Russia. And noone realizes that first one is already here and we are members, that second one has no interests here and third want only to sell oil and gas here.
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#13 User is offline   Shinrei 

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 08:25 AM

My adopted country, Japan.

These days, one of the biggest problems Japan faces is the aging demographic and the declining birth rate. There are going to be less and less people to pay for the health care and retirement pensions of the elderly. Towns in the countryside are disappearing and will continue to do so, as young people leave because they don't want to farm, and the old die out.

A large percentage of Japan's food is imported from abroad. This may be the key in the end. When energy costs rise and importing food becomes a more and more expensive proposition, I think we may see a shift of Japanese people going back to the farm. Organic farming and young farming communties are already happening (slowly), and I think the "market" will eventually see more people taking to agriculture and breaking some of the dependency on foreign imports. This is one place where I think Japan's future looks to be heading in the right direction.

Some of the working demographic could be fixed by making it easier for women in the workforce. People go on about how more immigrants need to be allowed into Japan, but I feel that the first step is to tap the underused female population. This will have to mean more daycare facilities (which are overwhelmed as it is, despite the birthrate). That's a job sector that will probably grow. The idea of the man working and the woman in the home is still far more entrenched here than in Western nations. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, except it needs to be by choice, not a for all intents forced situation given how women are treated by companies etc.

The Asian neighbors, seriously, need to get over WWII. The youth of Japan today can barely raise the cajones to talk to the opposite sex, much less take the fight to someone abroad. Particularly China needs to STFU and move on, but unfortunately Chinese (and sometimes korean) nationalism fueled by anti-japanese sentiment is too convenient a tool.

Japan doesn't take the microscope of foreign criticism very well. It is an overgeneralized stereotype, but when something about Japan is criticised many take the criticism as an attack on Japan and Japanese people as a whole. Take the whale/dolphin thing. The Cove raised many eyebrows in Japan, and the sentiment I hear again and again is that its an attack on Japanese culture. At the end of the day, those duck-squeezers who made the movie care about the Dolphins, not about attacking Japanese, but this is hard to explain to many Japanese people.

Japan is a place of extremes. Stunning conformity on one hand, and stunning individual creativity on the other. Stunningly beautiful places to visit, and stunningly ugly fucked up places covered in concrete and rotting steel. I think Japan could be a lesson to China about industrializing too quickly without thought to the environment. It's better now though. Japan is far more "eco" than the US. Public transportation is great, and places aren't overheated in winter and overcooled in summer for example.

Japan is definately an onion - layers unpeal and you get something new the longer you stay. I know I won't ever be seen as Japanese, but as long as you're the type who isn't bothered by that, Japan is a nice place to be. When a Japanese family accepts you, you're in. I'm privilaged to have a wonderful family who supports my wife and I beyond what I think is appropriate, but which is culturally normal. To be "nakama" or in-group, means a level of acceptance that usually could only be found between best friends in the West. But nakama tend to be small units (like families), which is why I won't succeed in being part of the national "nakama" because I'll always have my big nose and blue eyes (even if my blond hair falls out).

Edited to add: As for where Japan is misunderstood, thats tough. It is, in general, really misunderstood. Everytime I read some sort of feature piece on japan, written by a reporter who spent 3 weeks here, I shake my head at the amount of garbage that gets repeated everytime a piece like that is written. It'd be easier for people to ask me "Does Japan ________" directly, for me to address that point.

This post has been edited by Shinrei: 11 July 2010 - 08:47 AM

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#14 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 08:03 PM

Re: Nationalism in general. I think it is a good thing for the most part, so long as it's good-spirited. I have a tendency to think it's less of a good thing in the US where our culture already dominates the world in many ways, but it is already too late to change the fact that most of the world sees us as a national full of ignorant bullies, safe and secure bordered by oceans and weak nations, and complacent in that security.

As for the future of the USA, I worry about us because so many people that live here really are complacent about the rest of the world, complacent about our place at the top of the food chain. And it's not that I necessarily worry so much about falling out of the top spot (if we can even be said to still hold it), but I worry about a plummet to economic hardship like we haven't yet seen. I'm not worried about it to the point of paranoia, but I do wish that we weren't generally so arrogant about our place in the scheme of things. Part of what bolsters that attitude is the way that English is becoming the lingua franca of the world (and though we do largely have Brit colonialism to thank for that, I have a feeling that Hollywood has helped it along, and it is at least obvious to us that our culture is more widely-endorsed than that of other countries). That leads to the linguistic laziness that CI mentioned earlier in relation to the Aussies. There's a great deal of linguistic variety in the US, especially in the cities and out West where the Hispanic population is increasing, but for the most part, we speak English and that's it. Even the college-educated Americans tend to be unilingual; we might have studied another language, but simply never put it to practical use.

We are a diverse nation with huge differences among regions, though there is a national character. I think we share many traits along those lines with the Canadians - that's why it's so hard to tell us apart - but of course our notorious federal government is a large part of what binds us together.

I was raised in the Deep South. I have a map:
Posted Image

It's not a very good map, but oh well. The outer red border marks off the 'southern' states (though sometimes a couple others are included), and the inner red border marks off the Deep South. The states with the abbreviations in them are ones I have visited, and three of the four dots are for places that I've lived. One of them is New Orleans, just for a reference point (since it is the only major city near me). The southernmost dot in Mississippi is Gulfport, where I have lived most of my life. The dot directly north of that is Hattiesburg, where I live at university (I've spent about 5 years here total). The northernmost dot in Louisiana is Baton Rouge (the capital), where I lived for about six months.

All the blank states are places where I have never been (obviously, I flew out to Nevada). We don't compare with Canada when it comes to population per square mile, but the US is a very, very big place. I feel like I have done a lot of traveling within the US, and obviously there is this huge vast expanse of my country that I have never seen (and might not ever see). My traveling ouside of the Deep South has been fairly minimal, too - two trips up to New Jersey to visit relatives, with a bit of traveling around the area, and that's about it. I have been across the pond to Ireland (mostly Dublin and Cork, for less than 2 weeks), London for a day, Amsterdam for a weekend, with a short trip to The Hague, Vienna for less than two weeks (minus the weekend in the Netherlands), and a train trip across Germany (I got out at one of the stops to smoke, so I at least set foot there).

The Deep South of the US is characterized by religion, racism, and poverty. It's not that these things don't exist in the rest of the US but the statistics show that the Deep South is the poorest (not counting Florida). Our schools have the lowest budgets and the lowest performance records. We're often behind on technology as compared to the Northeast, the West, and even the Midwest (around the Great Lakes). Some parts of Texas fit the Deep South mold, but really Texas is a unique phenomenon. Another interesting thing about the South is that the black population is a good deal higher than anywhere else in the country, primarily because most of the emancipated slaves did not have the means to leave the south, and had to make do with the circumstances. Some stayed because they loved the land and the weather and weren't about to let a bunch of rednecks run them off. The result is that we have some of the most racist white people in the country living alongside the largest black population. Average for the country is about 12% - in the Deep South it's often 30% or higher. It's not a pretty mix, but at the same time, I can see a lot of progress among the youth in MS. Assuming that this open-minded generation doesn't move elsewhere after college, there might be hope for the future of MS. Interestingly, both sides of the racial divide - the blacks and the racist rednecks/Old South and Old Money Republicans - are the most religious. I'm hoping that the Methodist church continues to steal members from the Southern Baptists of both races, because Mississippi Methodists, particularly those in the larger towns I've mentioned, are starting to become very liberal. Some churches are even openly accepting of gay members, and would probably marry them if it were ever legalized (not likely in MS, since the state constitution has already been amended to ban it). I have been playing piano for a Unitarian Universalist gig in Hattiesburg recently, and I was amazed there was such a thing in MS. They're small, but I think they might grow if they start promoting on campus (which they've never done before).

Louisiana also has its own character that for the most part does not fit the Deep South mold at all. For one, they're primarily Catholic. That might not seem to be a big difference to you folks that don't take religion all that seriously, but it's a pretty big deal in the Deep South. The Methodists co-exist well with either the Southern Baptists or the Catholics, but Southern Baptists and Catholics do not get on well at all. Also, Catholic symbology and holidays and that sort of thing adds a certain something, and people in Louisiana tend to take religion just as seriously as the Southern Baptists, but they don't have any moral issues with going to Bourbon Street on a Saturday night and getting hammered. At least, not until they show up to church the next morning, at which time they feel really horrible about having done it, so they confess and take communion and pray and say a few rosaries or whatever, and when they walk out the door they're over it.

Northern Louisiana is more in the Deep South mold. A pretty good general rule is that the further you get from New Orleans and the coast, the less coonass the natives become ('coonass' is used as a racial slur against black people in some parts of the Deep South, but in Louisiana, it means cajun). Those that live south of New Orleans, and around the Atchafalaya Basin (affectionately known as the bayou, an abandoned course of the Mississippi river) are generally thought to be more coonass than anyone. It's partly a cultural heritage thing, as evidenced by the links, and partly a multi-generational tie to the swampy land of southern Louisiana. It's swampy because it's the endpoint of the continent's biggest drainage basin, the Mississippi river basin. It breeds strange people, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, read some Anne Rice. Also, some of you saw the video someone posted in the oil spill thread, with a local woman who gave a speech about the issues with the work crews and such. Everyone across the world seemed really impressed with her speaking abilities, since she was uneducated (and typically, the more educated you get, the less coonass you become), but for a coonass rant, it was pretty unremarkable. I know hundreds of women just like her. I suppose that's a horribly stereotypical thing to say, but I don't really mean it. They're all different people, but they sometimes seem to be cut from the same mold. The women and men alike are almost without exception not afraid to say what's on their minds, not afraid to offend, not ashamed of their often-debaucherous lifestyles, not ashamed of being poor and uneducated. They generally have an accent that the woman on the video didn't really have. She had more of a typical southern accent, whereas the coonass accent has more similarity to the accent of the first woman in this video, and the girl that shows up at 5:26 is more typical of what I was talking about (though they're city girls, rather than bayou girls). The accent is compared to a Brooklyn accent, but it sounds similar to a lot of Northeastern US accents to me.

Mississippi is a lot less interesting. There's a bit of culture mixing on the coast, where I'm from - there are more Catholics in the coastal county that borders Louisiana than anywhere else in the state except maybe Biloxi (pronounced bih-LUCKS-ee). There are I think 81 counties in Mississippi, and three of them touch the coast of the Gulf. The middle one, Harrison, is my county. Gulfport is in the middle of the county, and is bordered by Biloxi on the east. None of the other towns on the coast come close to Gulfport and Biloxi in population - I think both towns have around 100,000 people, maybe a little less - and the only town in the state that is bigger is Jackson, the capital (around 250,000 I think). Hattiesburg, my school town, is one of the few towns in the state that approaches Gulfport and Biloxi in size (around 60-80,000).

So, the schools I attended as a child were far above the average school in MS in budget and performance, and that is I'm sure the only reason why MS is represented on this forum. There was one other Mississippian here, Pilgrim (does he still post?), and he lives in Hattiesburg. There are vast stretches of Mississippi where the average person has never read a whole book, and probably dropped out of school as soon as it was legal (age 16) if not before (somehow). There are people who are raised in these towns that go on to higher education, but they generally don't go back. I can't claim to be terribly familiar with even most of my state, but both sides of my family were from small MS towns. Both of my dad's parents lived in a little place called Mendenhall, or in D'Lo, a town right outside Mendenhall - they're both on the main highway that runs north from the coast, between Hattiesburg and Jackson. There might be 3,000 people between the two towns. My mom's dad was from a small town in north MS called Macon, another one with less than 3,000 people and about an hour's drive to a town of significant size.

Interstate 10 runs parallel to the coastline in MS:

Posted Image

...and to those of us who live on the coast, anything north of I-10 is 'country'. We consider ourselves to be relatively progressive as compared to the rest of the state, but north of the city limits of the coastal towns is for the most part unincorporated land. Most of the people who live there work in the coastal towns (often as blue collar workers), but they go home to their place out in the country, where the land is cheaper and the plots bigger, neighbors much further away, sometimes not even visible from your house. Some of it is farmland that supplies the coast, but most of the farmland is further north where it's too far to comfortably commute into the coastal towns, so there is actually a progression of how 'country' it is, the further north you go, but it's all the same to us on the coast. I-10 is also the standard 'safe line' for hurricanes. If you live near the water (like I always have), if you're going to stay in town for a hurricane (which I always do), then you have to stay at a friend's house north of the interstate or a family member's house that isn't near water. When I was a kid, we always went to my grandma's house in Woolmarket, which is north of Biloxi. She died a few years before Katrina, so I spent Katrina at my friend Tabitha's house, barely north of the interstate inside Gulfport (only Gulfport and Biloxi have city limits north of the interstate, out of all the coastal towns).

Those two stars in Louisiana on I-10 are Baton Rouge and New Orleans. I only lived in Baton Rouge for six months, but I hung out there a lot over the course of about 5 years or so. It's the capital of the state, but also a college town; Louisiana State University is one of the better schools of the Deep South, recognized across the country for sports, with a solid academic reputation. My friends all lived in a neighborhood that was just north of the LSU campus, a part of the older grid framework of the city where the streets are named after states and presidents. The neighborhood was one of those run-down old neighborhoods common to most US cities where the black population was high, but in an effort to fight the ghetto, a lot of the houses were bought up to rent to (mostly white) college students, though some streets are still very much ghetto. The neighborhood over the years became primarily occupied by LSU dropouts, and was known for nightly keg parties. Somewhere on those few blocks, there would be a keg party, every night, often at several houses. I had one at my house for a friend's birthday, and a few hundred people showed up, most of whom I had never met before, and we had midget wrestling in the front room. It was awesome. Another thing I encountered at those parties for the first time: drum circles. Some people collect percussion instruments just for keg parties. On Halloween, there would be a block party on Carlotta Street. The cops closed off the street and left it alone until 2am, at which time the law required them to break it up. The street was long enough that there were 2 or 3 different places for live music, and the music culture in BR was not bad. Way better than MS, if not as great as NO.

My school, the University of Southern Mississippi, is not so well known as LSU, but it's still a good school. There are three major federally-supported universities in MS: the University of Mississipi, known as 'Ole Miss', in Oxford, MS (north part of the state, near Tupelo, where Elvis was born); Mississippi State University in Starkville (northeast MS), which started out as the agricultural school; and my school, USM, otherwise known as 'Southern Miss'. We're mostly known for having produced Brett Favre, though Jimmy Buffet is a well-known dropout. The music school is one of the best in the south, so here I am.

I might share more later, but I think that's enough about my little corner of the USA for now.

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Please proceed, Governor.

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There it is.

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And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#15 User is offline   maro 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 01:12 AM

As Fantasy (And presumably Sci Fi) Fans, I find it weird to be so nationalistic.

I only Follow England in Rugby.

I'm more down with being a Global Citizen - I've lived in both Hemispheres and will hopefully live on more continents over time.

I aim to experience as much as I can from different cultures.
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#16 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 04:50 AM

View Postmaro, on 12 July 2010 - 01:12 AM, said:

As Fantasy (And presumably Sci Fi) Fans, I find it weird to be so nationalistic.

I only Follow England in Rugby.

I'm more down with being a Global Citizen - I've lived in both Hemispheres and will hopefully live on more continents over time.

I aim to experience as much as I can from different cultures.

We all do. This is not about one country being better than another; this is about making the little dots on the map become real places with real people in them that we know (which, as a fantasy fan, you should understand :)). I don't think it's an accident that none of the English have posted until you, and that only you and the Americans have said anything about nationalism being 'weird'. I am reminded of a map that Brood posted once. I think he made it himself. It was a map of the world, with England in the center, and arrows pointing to about half the rest of the countries in the world saying 'USED TO OWN THESE BITS'. :)

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#17 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:09 PM

Very nice to hear about others' backgrounds on here. Sometimes difficult to appreciate others' point of view without some cultural reference.

View PostD, on 11 July 2010 - 05:18 AM, said:

View PostMott, on 10 July 2010 - 04:04 PM, said:

Scotland has more land than people, our population is only around the five million mark, and we have in recent years acquired our own devolved parliament.


I'm from Canada and we laugh at statements like this. Posted Image Scotland is 5 million people in 65 000 square kilometres. Canada is 34 million people in 10 million square kilometres.

The vastness of Canada pretty much defines every aspect of it. The founding cultures of modern Canada are the british and french colonies that established across the land. Distinctly, there's the western british colony British Columbia, the main anglophone colony Upper Canada, the conquered main french colony Lower Canada, the maritime colonies which are a mix of french and british, and Newfoundland which is british. Each of these are their own meta-cultures in wide regions that are much farther spaced than entire countries anywhere else.

As a result, government, public opinion, economics, what-have-you tends to vary quite a bit across the country. It's very difficult for Canadian policy-makers to make nation-wide decisions that appease the majority because what might be of benefit to the Alberta tar sands is useless to Newfoundlanders across the continent. English and French are both official languages, but Quebec is the only primarily francophone province. As a result, Quebec enjoys a lot of benefits because of the supposed need to preserve their culture, and gets away with some flat-out tyrannical craziness (all signs - private or public - in Quebec must have french, and any english must be 35% smaller than the french).


Double laugh at statements about population density.

D'rek got it right with the hugeness defining our culture and general social agendas. I'd also add that the 2-official language thing is based in large part on the relative population of the french province at the time the idea of the double-language was hatched. Earlier-on, population was concentrated primarily in central Canada, in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec. Those two provinces dictated the political parties in power and by extension much of the public policy. Since then population has spread, mostly westward, toward oil and mineral resources, but at this point the "French official language" thing is like horribly corrosive political acid for any non-french politician and it will persist until the country dissolves I'm sure.

I've lived primarily in the far Southeast of the country in Atlantic Canada. It has some of the longest history on the continent and was a major shipbuilding, transportation and export/import hub in earlier colonial days. My province in particular is a blend of marine-based history along the coast and logging-based history inland. Now of course all that has dried up, the original forests are all gone, fishing is a dying trade, boatbuilding is limited to a handful of artisans and the region in general lacks significant natural resources. Topography is generally unremarkable, which limits tourism and there is little heavy industry not related to lumber/paper. The Atlantic provincial governments are dirt-poor...like really really dirt-poor and wholly dependent on equalization payments from the federal government (where they shift money from rich provinces to poor ones). Politicians in Atlantic Canada talk a big game about energy resources and upping our nuclear generation capacity, wind generation capacity, blah blah, but it often gets quashed by the uneducated majority of people living here.

The state of affairs in Atlantic Canada is EXACTLY why I like living here though. We have nothing worth fighting over so nobody fucks with us...ever. I tried the faster-paced western Canadian big-city culture and wasn't a big fan. I dig the rural-ness, the absence of traffic in the cities (at any time other than than our 15-minute long rush hour) and the fact that I can afford a 2-acre building lot less than 10 minutes from a major population centre. The ingrained rural-ness means our politicians often forgo intelligent decisions to appease the resident population of idiot hicks, but even that is good in a way - since its much harder to screw over farmer Joe in favour of the city folk and corporate interests.

Lots of fresh water, no tectonic problems, minimal natural disaster-type stuff, virtually absent crime, inexpensive building materials, plenty of undisturbed land, and better beer than they brew anyplace else in the country (yes I said it). It is a wonderful, relaxed place to live IMO, as long as you have a job. I have the good fortune to have been born into a mid-class family with loving parents, decent brains, was able to attend university (engineering) and will likely never be out of work. Since the recent (last decade) death of our logging industry and the not-so-recent (last 25 years) death of the fishing industry, there are whole cities of unemployed people in my province and the future is much less certain and rosy for them.

I know I'm describing rural life in general, but that's the point. Ruralness is the essence of the entire region and it completely defines us. I recognize that the area would be a lot different without equalization payments from the feds and am grateful that we have the system in place to prevent severe depopulation and migration toward the West. It seems unfair to western provinces to have to support the lot of us out East, but it was the other way around for the first 100 years of confederation, so they can suck it up.

Yay Atlantic Canada. Could write volumes more, but its all probably boring.
........oOOOOOo
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BEERS!

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#18 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:49 PM

I have lived for most of my life in MN, in the US. Go look at Terez's map, my state is in the middle at the top. See where 35 and 94 hit? That is the MPLS/ST. Paul area, where I grew up and lived.

As you can see from Terez's post, people assume the Midwest, which we are technically part of, are behind the times in technology and literacy, when in fact, we (At least my area Minneapolis) are the leaders and are the home to some of the most successfull US Corporations, such as Target or 3M. People talk about 'Minnesota Nice' as if it is a good thing, but what really happens is people are nice to your face, and will be your 'work friends', and never actually want to talk to you or spend time with you. I have made more 'friends' in the 2 months I have been in DE than I made in MN (excluding those I went to school with).

What is interesting about MN, and the midwest, is that we 'know' we are the greatest people in the greatest nation on the world. Our religious tendancies in MN are high, although mostly it is just lip service. We get to 100F in the summer, and down to -30F in the winter. Before Humidity/Windchill. And yet if you drive an hour south, you have nothing but farmland, and an hour north, nothing but woods and lakes.

Nearly everyone in MN has a 'cabin' 'up north' that they go to nearly every weekend in the summer. I have a friend who lives in a Trailer Park, and he has a cabin up north that is much nicer than his trailer. I just don't get it, but it is the 'norm' here.

We have the greatest Hmong population in the US, and the movie Gran Torino was supposed to be set in St. Paul, but they would not provide the kinds of tax breaks that Detroit would, so it was filmed there.

Lets see... We have the 3rd Greatest Per Capita Mexican Population of any large City in the US, which is a little weird.

As for my travels, I have hit every state except for the 'South' as shown on Terez's map (excluding South Carolina and Flordia, which I took airplanes to.) Frankly, the South scares me, with the religious and personal intolerance that is shown just by the fact that they still fly the Union flag.

Most Minnesotans scoff at the 'Coasters' (both east and west) as people who need to hurry hurry hurry, rush rush rush, just to compete with what we do. Truthfull or not, that is what they/we think.

Our 2009 July Population is 5,266,214. Larger than some European Nations.
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#19 User is offline   Salk Elan 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:57 PM

I live in Austria (or the "little neighbour of Germany", which is often used to specify Austria's geographic situation in non-European countries, where Austria is more often than not confused with Australia at first mention), precisely in Upper Austria.

Austria is a small landlocked, mountainous country in the heart of Europe.

Some basic data:
* 8,3 million of people (nearly a quarter of them lives in the capital city Vienna)
* parliamentary representative democracy, consisting of nine federal states
* about 66 % (officially) Roman Catholic (although for the majority this is more a matter of culture and tradition than true religious belief)
* ranked one of the richest countries in the world (by GDP, for 2009 somewhere between No 7 and No 11, depending on which statistic one refers to).
* non-nuclear, with an electricity supply from renewable energy amounting to over 60% of total use (something we are immensely proud of)

Our history was tumultuous and dates back to the Roman Empire, where it was roughly the territory of the province Noricum. The first attested mention was in the "Ostarrîchi document" of AD 996.

Regarding history I don't want to go into the matter all too detailed (further information here: http://en.wikipedia....tory_of_Austria), just let it be said that, due to our geographical situation, the territory of the current Republic of Austria, has seen many major European events since the Roman Empire (from the Migration Period between AD 300 and 500, the Great Turkish War, the Habsburg (multiethnic) Monarchy and the Thirty Years' war to WW I and WW II) and it all left it's traces in our culture, our kitchen and our national feeling.

As far as I can judge it, the modern Austrian national feeling developed only after WW II, though the so-called First Republic was already founded after the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire through the Treaty of Saint Germaine in 1919. At that time no one believed that Austria, this tiny remnant of the former huge Austro-Hungarian Empire, could survive on its own - not even Austria's own population did - which eventually resulted in the "re-unification" with Nazi-Germany. But after WW II and the founding of the Second Republic in 1955 this feeling turned and now we are rather proud of being such a little but prosperous country… and we hate nothing more than to be compared to - or worse still, to be confused with - Germany... though of course we would simply smile to it and think the one who committed this sin as curelessly ignorant (but in truth we get along with the Germans quite well, we just want to be a little different to them, and we want everyone else to know it [img]http://forum.malazanempire.com/public/style_emoticons/darkset/:).gif[/img].gif" /> ) .

We are a very diplomatic people in general, and set value to the "perpetual neutrality" of our state. We want to get along with everyone else in the world without causing - or even so much as interfering in - any conflict, unless in an intermediate or counselling role.
Consequential to this I think we fear everything extreme, be it in politics or religion, and due to our recent history the very word "nationalism" has a rather negative touch.
This may also explain a tendency for a moderate, social democratic dominated government, although the influence of the political right-wing gets disquietingly stronger recently, reasons of which may be the eastward expansion of the EU and a latent nonsensical xenophobia and fear of getting "overrun", now that we don't have a guarded external frontier anymore, which is nevertheless successfully exploited by right-wing populists.

Within Austria there is a strong sense of identity regarding the federal states, emphasised by very different dialects… so, as an Upper Austrian myself (with a dialect similar to German Bavarian dialect) I would not be able to follow a full-speed conversation in Styrian or Carinthian dialect.

As a people Austrians complain easily (about everything) but seldom act aggressively (or act at all), which brought us a questionable reputation of being phlegmatic. But this very stoicism can be imo an advantage, for example in the current economic crisis (until the crisis had a chance to really influence day to day life on a broad scale it has already been suspended.).
On the other hand it sometimes gives the government too much range to do whatever they please: (Increase taxes? – Oh my! Just do it, as long as we can still afford the annual holiday-trip and maintain the general high living standard. Would be way too much effort to make a real fuss over it. In most cases Protest in Austria is rather a pastime for some idealist students.)

A rather annoying quirk of Austrians is our love for titles (an oddment of the former Monarchy). We have titles for everyone and everything… not only (rather useful) academic titles but also hollow honorary titles in nearly every occupational group, which are gained solely by virtue of staying in the same office for long enough. And don't fail to use them! – It's more important to use the correct "court councillor", "privy councillor" and whatnot, than to know the correct name.

And finally, we fancy the notion to be open-minded, educated and tolerant, an opinion I personally mainly share, though I think in every country there is a certain percentage of people blissfully ignorant of everything else that's going on around them in the world.
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#20 User is offline   Mott 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:35 PM

Quote

Mott, on 10 July 2010 - 12:04 PM, said:

Scotland has more land than people, our population is only around the five million mark, and we have in recent years acquired our own devolved parliament.

I'm from Canada and we laugh at statements like this. public/style_emoticons/default/p.gif Scotland is 5 million people in 65 000 square kilometres. Canada is 34 million people in 10 million square kilometres.


I remember out Geography teacher trying to stress this point to us when we where in high school. That and something about a wind. We stopped paying attention around about that point as one of our classmates dramatically got up on the desk, hand over his heart, and started singing God Save the Queen while saluting. All because he saw a red telephone box.

The Highlands and Islands in sparsely populated in relation to the central belt and the rest of the UK. I think this idea of emptiness is embedded in our mind because of the clearances which bled a lot of people from the region. It is a bit of a strange mentality, considering how small Scotland is.

Quote

As a result, Quebec enjoys a lot of benefits because of the supposed need to preserve their culture, and gets away with some flat-out tyrannical craziness (all signs - private or public - in Quebec must have french, and any english must be 35% smaller than the french).


Ah that is one of our recent controversies in the Highlands. The A82 From Glasgow to Inverness is in a woeful state of disrepair, but the council spent millions of pounds replacing signs with Gaelic/English bilingual ones. I am all for the preservation of the language but I think they should concentrate on educating people on how to read and speak it before putting the signs up. Even funnier is the fact that some of the places names have barely been anglicized and look almost identical in Gaelic and English.
Mottfather, who art in chat, hallowed be thy name, thy empire come, thy magic be done, on wu as it is in warren. give us this day our daily cahpters, and forgive us our timeline, as we forgive yours, lead us not into goodkind, but deliver us from ayn rand, for thine is the series, the epic, the glory, I<3WJ ~ Obdi and GH
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