[Rath Orlong]

Quote

DoD, p. 816
Hood slowly rose from the throne, melted ice streaming down his blackened hide. He stood, and eventually the laughter fell away. He took one step forward and then another.
The fourteen warriors did not move.
Hood lowered to one knee, head bowing. 'I seek ... penance."

Okay, why exactly is Hood seeking penance?

Side note: Now that he is back "in the flesh", could Hood be the Jaghut soletaken dragon that Silchas was telling Rud about?

[Silencer]

Why is he seeking penance? Main reason that jumps to mind is that he essentially betrayed the Jaghut by abandoning them to take the Throne of Death instead of the Throne of Ice (while arguably still occupying that seat) in their war against Death. Sure, he ended the war but...it's tantamount to taking over Nazi Germany in place of Hitler to end the war with Germany, I guess.

Then there's the fact that he may have been an instigator of that war, which would have led to much death amongst the Jaghut, which in turn made them more vulnerable to the Imass.

And I suppose you could take into account the mass destruction of dead people at the end of TtH, and his general treatment of the dead throughout his reign, though those are less Jaghut-specific.

So there are a few reasons he would seek penance, though which ones specifically we're not certain of (he was definitely tired of being the Lord of Death, though), and I might have forgotten a couple of others.

As for Hood being the soletaken dragon...it wouldn't surprise me, but most soletaken have some form of giveaway which we haven't seen in Hood. I can't see him being quite so tired of things and regretful if he has Eleint in him, either. Though the lack of a name in that reference...it could mean it's someone we don't/won't meet and Erikson is sparing us some pain (yeah right...) or it could be someone we've met but Ruin doesn't want to give up the ghost (so to speak) or doesn't think he's still alive (and Hood wasn't) so doesn't think a name is necessary. But we'll just have to wait and see for that one.

[Aptorian]

Silencer, on 21 June 2010 - 04:10 AM, said:

Why is he seeking penance? Main reason that jumps to mind is that he essentially betrayed the Jaghut by abandoning them to take the Throne of Death instead of the Throne of Ice (while arguably still occupying that seat) in their war against Death. Sure, he ended the war but...it's tantamount to taking over Nazi Germany in place of Hitler to end the war with Germany, I guess.

Then there's the fact that he may have been an instigator of that war, which would have led to much death amongst the Jaghut, which in turn made them more vulnerable to the Imass.

[citation needed]

None of these things are confirmed. It is simply the most logical assumption. Knowing Erikson it's some less probable thing that we don't understand because he hasn't given us all the pieces.

All we know is that he seems to have betrayed the cause of the Jaghut.

[Jurble]

Well, he could just be saying that to save his ass. There's 14 warriors in front of him, who stated earlier that Hood betrayed them. What's he supposed to do? Give them the finger and run for it? The actual incident is probably from the war against death. Seems like, that Hood fled the battlefield and let his army die (and didn't die with them) to save his own skin.

This post has been edited by Jurble: 21 June 2010 - 05:23 AM

[worry]

I tend to agree with Silencer's theory on Hood. I would imagine Hood had good intentions in taking up the mantle, attempting to spare the other Jaghut whatever horrors they saw during the war rather than it being a power play (I think), but it's one of those "road to hell is paved with..." deals. The Jaghut weren't happy about it, Hood didn't fully realize how burdensome a job it would be, etc. He'd still have to answer for his crime, regardless of his intent. You could say it was a noble sacrifice nearly on par with Rake's, except in contrast it was misbegotten and perhaps even a failure. I guess that doesn't add up to anything more than a guess though.

[Aptorian]

Or maybe he could simply had destroyed them? He is most likely a Jaghut Tyrant level power player, his ass is sitting on the Throne of Ice. He's not exactly wanting for power.

[Silencer]

And we don't even know the capabilities of Jaghut warriors - how magically proficient are they? Sure all the Jaghut we have seen so far are capable of wielding Omtose Phellack, much the same as Tiste Andii, but I'd imagine that there is a reason those 14 had weapons, the same as some Tiste obviously fought with swords instead of sorcery. They might have been as nothing compared to Hood, throne or not.
Of course, 14 Jaghut of moderate power levels for their species are probably sorcerous powerhouses themselves, and I'm not sure I'd back Hood against that many if they have decent magic. Then again, the guy's a twice-made God who has been around since Elder Race times (obviously).

But that's really starting to get into theory, with little backup evidence, and him actually feeling guilt is much more likely either way (not like dying can really hurt him much, is it?).

[Ribald]

Didn't he eat all the steak and drink the last beer at the last Malazan BBQ?

[Rath Orlong]

Good one, Ribald.

Are we sure that he rises from the throne of ice? I had the feeling it was the throne of death.

When Hedge finds his way out of that sub-hold of death in RG, he passes a throne with a frozen Jaghut on it, doesn't he? Wouldn't that be Hood, and might that not be the throne of death?

[Aptorian]

That was the Throne of Ice and that was Hood sitting on it.

The Warrens drift.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 21 June 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

The Warrens drift.

Or, you know, there's some sort of connection between Death and Ice *cough*Hood*cough* and ergo a ghost can travel between them...

[Aptorian]

That's what I said!

[Jurble]

IIRC, didn't they walk past the Throne of Ice and eventually end up at the bottom of Hood's Warren?

[Aptorian]

Not Hoods warren, it was the Imass memory warren centered around the "Gates of fire" which was a gate way into Starvald Demelain and other places.

[onehitwunder]

Being frozen on the frone of ice makes more sense then being frozen onto the throne of death

[worry]

That depends on how cold death is.

[Rath Orlong]

My thought was that Hood unleashed Omtose Phellack and fused his ass to the throne of death. That way his warren protects his body from being assailed.
Has a throne of ice ever been mentioned? I don't remember. We know the Jaghut don't band together under one leader very well, occasional Tyrants not withstanding.

This post has been edited by Rud Ellale: 23 June 2010 - 04:19 PM

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Yes the Throne of Ice is mentioned lots of time. It is one of the Tiles that make up the Hold of Ice( and in one of the readings, Feather Witch says that death sits on the Throne of Ice, a clear reference to Hood). As to the fact that Jaghut don't band together, I believe it is hinted that that was after the disastrous war against Death. And, anyway , it's rather clear from the end of DoD, that Hood was the leader/general/king of the Jaghut during the War.

[Rath Orlong]

Enough said. I'm convinced.
Well, death doesn't sit there anymore. I wonder if Hood will still claim the throne.

[Dovienya]

My understanding is that the Hold of Ice was the predecessor to the Warren of death. I believe it was in the bonehunters (can't look it up right now) that Hedge mentions something about travelling through death to reach the Hold of Ice since Ice preceded death. That would make the Jaghut war on death fit in with the constant theme of the new encroaching upon the old and the old defending itself. Hood may be seeking penance just because he understands now that the war he led before was useless and the 14 Jaghut (among others) died pointlessly.