[Findarato]

yes that is what I remember too, from the MT prologue. It says there the shattering of KE happened before the betrayal. It is not said how the sundering had been done but Silchas accuses scabby of being responsible. I don't know if this is true, but I don't think it was Icarium, because Gothos apparently wasn't in the Azath at that time (yet). MT is what I have reread just now, what is said about that in later books I don't remember at the moment.

This post has been edited by Findarato: 29 June 2010 - 04:25 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think everyone is forgetting that the sundering of emurlahn was not a big, smash with a hammer, there its shattered event. from the scene with cot, edge, and the three chained dragons in maenas we know that the sundering continues to this very day. scabby made one crack, the HFE tore apart a shard, iccy destroyed the odhanhouse (we know from the jaghut in HoC) and this broke apart a fragment of emurlahn that had been pinned there. it goes on and on as people try to claim chunks for their own, the nascent and maenas/rashan probably being the biggest pieces.

[D'rek]

As Ampelas would say,

Quote

Such distinctions are meaningless. The sundering continues to this day.

There's a lot of events that may or may not have contributed to the sundering and we aren't exactly sure whiich did and which had the most impact. And as Sinisdar says, it wasn't a sudden event, whatsoever. The weakening was gradual and varied and still is.

[Jurble]

So I picked up my copy of Midnight Tides and read it. Now I have to reread Reaper's Gale, just so I know what was going on there, god damn it. Anyway,

'nother question:

The Forkrul Assail in Kolanse - how did they get there? Based on the fact the children were able to survive that huge desert trek all by themselves and such, I'm assuming Kolansers are pretty Assail-Human mixed, so they have awesome kung-fu powers and such. But why? How did the Forkrul Assail get to Kolanse - a colony from Assail? Was it recent? I mean, I always thought of Assail, the continent, as the continent of kung-fu using super-human-hybrids that can beat up T'lan Imass, now we have a whole other place of them. Just seems like there's too many human-assail hybrid societies out there.

And random question: Who was the First Sword of Dessimbelackis' Empire? Was it Trake or something?

[D'rek]

Jurble, on 29 June 2010 - 06:23 PM, said:

So I picked up my copy of Midnight Tides and read it. Now I have to reread Reaper's Gale, just so I know what was going on there, god damn it. Anyway,

'nother question:

The Forkrul Assail in Kolanse - how did they get there? Based on the fact the children were able to survive that huge desert trek all by themselves and such, I'm assuming Kolansers are pretty Assail-Human mixed, so they have awesome kung-fu powers and such. But why? How did the Forkrul Assail get to Kolanse - a colony from Assail? Was it recent? I mean, I always thought of Assail, the continent, as the continent of kung-fu using super-human-hybrids that can beat up T'lan Imass, now we have a whole other place of them. Just seems like there's too many human-assail hybrid societies out there.

And random question: Who was the First Sword of Dessimbelackis' Empire? Was it Trake or something?

*IF* indeed there is any interbreeding between the FA and humans in Kolanse. From the bit we get that is of the PoV of the Quitters chasing the Snake, it sounded to me more like the FA were the elite class ruling over the humans of Kolanse with absolute power and that in the recent past the FA then began wiping out the Kolanse humans completely, with some adults becoming bandits in the areas around Kolanse (the cannibals referenced earlier) and the Snake being the only surviving humans. No direct references are made for or against the idea of FA-human interbreeding, but that means I don't think we should assume it.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

D, on 29 June 2010 - 05:19 PM, said:

As Ampelas would say,

Quote

Such distinctions are meaningless. The sundering continues to this day.

There's a lot of events that may or may not have contributed to the sundering and we aren't exactly sure whiich did and which had the most impact. And as Sinisdar says, it wasn't a sudden event, whatsoever. The weakening was gradual and varied and still is.

In the MT prologue the time is stated as "The First Days of the Sundering of Emurlahn". So I think that means Scabandari's betrayal of Silchas and the Tiste contributed strongly to it.

Though Scabandari does say his Edur are coming to "escape the rivening that now besets Kurald Emurlahn". So perhaps it started when he killed the royal line of the Edur as was stated at some point in another book. Bonehunters, the conversation between Cotillion and the dragons I think?

Reading this made me think though, is it possible that the Shake rose out of the remnants of those Edur that came through the gate with Silchas and Scabby? I know that that group mostly formed the Edur tribes on Lether that we meet in MT, but some of them could have veered off and began that small Shake settlement. I don't want to get fully into the theory here, but I just thought of it because we now know Silchas had some connection with the Shake, helping them leave the first shore. And also perhaps the rivening Scabby spoke of was the first shore where light and dark were clashing, not necessarily Emurlahn yet. At least until he started betraying people.

[Findarato]

Actually I don't believe the Shake are Edur because Twilight is one of the Letherii military leaders in MT. If she was Edur, she would have looked like one, and apparently she looks like human. Not sure about the rest because I have yet to (re)read on to find out more. It has been some years and I have forgotten too much. During my first read I didn't pay enough attention on the nature of the shattering of KE and believed there was only one impact to cause it. It really is very complex and that's why i like these books so much.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Findarato, on 30 June 2010 - 09:10 AM, said:

Actually I don't believe the Shake are Edur because Twilight is one of the Letherii military leaders in MT. If she was Edur, she would have looked like one, and apparently she looks like human. Not sure about the rest because I have yet to (re)read on to find out more. It has been some years and I have forgotten too much. During my first read I didn't pay enough attention on the nature of the shattering of KE and believed there was only one impact to cause it. It really is very complex and that's why i like these books so much.

The Shake that we meet in the books are a hybrid of interbreeding apparently between Andii, Edur, Liosan, humans, and occasionally K'chain...

The royal ones like Twilight and the Watch have a stronger ancestral heritage towards the ancient ones that defended the first shore, but they certainly can pass for human considering how much dilution their blood has undergone through the millennia.

[hmqb]

But, they couldn't have had much andii blood since they did not look like Blue rose people.
We know they don't because one of them holds a high military spot and blue rose peoples can't get that high! BAM!

[Sinisdar Toste]

well the andii they mixed with were the remnants of silchas' army, who left to bluerose once the edur had settled down, probably wasn't much mixing going on outside the royal line

edit: it could even be that the royal line is the only line with andii blood

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 01 July 2010 - 02:33 AM

[Hetan]

The Shake were Andi in origin and their blood is now much diluted.

Edit : Actually - correction - the Shake were human and mixed with The Watch (the elite soldiers) who came through the road that Blind Gallan made for them at the request of Silchas Ruin. They then mingled with the Shake, to become the people that we see today.

The event that shattered Emurlahn in the first place took place before the betrayal. It's in the Bonehunters and we even know what Scabandari did.
Not sure where the confusion lies with this to be honest.
Yes the sundering continues to this day as there are so many pieces of Emurlahn around and everyone appears to want to claim it because a sundered warren is vulnerable.

[Lucky Revenant]

I don't remember it ever saying that the Shake had KC blood in them. I wouldn't be surprised if I just overlooked or forgot that detail, though. Would anyone mind posting the passage that said this?

[Hetan]

Lucky Revenant, on 02 July 2010 - 04:14 AM, said:

I don't remember it ever saying that the Shake had KC blood in them. I wouldn't be surprised if I just overlooked or forgot that detail, though. Would anyone mind posting the passage that said this?

Twilight: Often among the Shake there had been born demon-kissed children. Some would be chosen by the coven and taught the Old Ways; the rest would be flung from those cliffs, down into the thirsty sea. Gift of mortal blood, momentary, pathetic easing of its need.
All of the defiance within her was obliterated when she had seen for herself the birth of a demon-kissed monstrosity -- the taloned hands and feet, the scaled, elongated face, the blunt tail twitching like a headless worm, the eyes of lurid green. If naught but the taloned hands and feet marking the demon’s seed, the coven would have chosen this newborn, for there was true power in demonic blood when no more than a single drop trickled in the child’s veins. More than that, and the creation was an abomination. (RG)

"Our squad spent enough time on the right ship," Deadsmell explained. "Enough so I did plenty of talking with our black-skinned guests. Twilight," he said to Yan Tovis, "that's a Letherii word you use. Would you be surprised if I told you the original word for 'twilight,' in its original language, was 'yenander'? And that 'antovis' meant 'night' or even 'dark'? Your own name is your title, and I can see by your expression that you didn't even know it. Yedan Derryg? Not sure what 'derryg' is – we'll need to ask Sandalath – but 'yedanas' is 'watch,' both act and title. Gods below, what wave was that? The very first? And why the Shore? Because that's where newborn K'Chain Che'Malle came from, isn't it? The ones not claimed by a Matron, that is."
But power came with demonic blood. And so long as every child born with such power was initiated into the coven, then that power remained exclusive.(RG)

[Jurble]

How exactly, do the Shake manage to get KCCM blood in them? I can't really imagine a fertile male T-Rex humping a female human.

[worry]

The ocean is absolutely teeming with KCCM sperm.

[Hetan]

Jurble, on 02 July 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

How exactly, do the Shake manage to get KCCM blood in them? I can't really imagine a fertile male T-Rex humping a female human.

There's no reason to suppose that sex is involved.

[Harvester]

Do they have KCCM blood or KCN blood? If it was KCN, they could be infected with the unseen army... nanobots... miniature gut machines... whatever you want to call them.

This post has been edited by Harvester: 05 July 2010 - 07:25 PM

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

I'll look up the quote but I remember someone saying that with the Matron's release of eggs into the sea it was a desperate chance to create something new - and I think given DoD's bit with Sulkit, its clear you only need a little bit to get in there to kickstart the KCCM changes

Twilight I think also has a point about how it affects everyone, whether just through drinking water or eating the catches from the sea nearby?

[Hetan]

The baby that Twilight witnessed being born had a blunt tail, but that's not to say they were all born that way.

I'm more interested in the lurid green eyes comment, because it reminds me of the soul that Baruk was studying - the one that was a follower or came from the homeworld of the CG iirc? But I think that's just a coincidence.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hetan, on 01 July 2010 - 06:18 PM, said:

The Shake were Andi in origin and their blood is now much diluted.

Edit : Actually - correction - the Shake were human and mixed with The Watch (the elite soldiers) who came through the road that Blind Gallan made for them at the request of Silchas Ruin. They then mingled with the Shake, to become the people that we see today. .
...

So, does Twilight just have more "Royal" blood (is that just a history beaten transfer of Andii blood?) or could any of the Shake have opened Gallan's road if they "knew" what Twilight knew?