[haroos]

does anyone know the (more or less) accurate ages of the main characters ?
of course i'm not talking about the ones who are ages old, the main mortal ones.

for example dujek was 81 when he died (correct ?), how old then was whiskeyjack ?
and fiddler who is supposed to be about the same age as whiskeyjack ?

[hmqb]

Is it me or do they age a little diffrently because Dujek did not seem 81... I don't know any of the ages

[Mischiefs' Folly]

You have to remember that Dujek was with Kellenved and Dancer before they annexed the Island. That those close to the emperor were given alchemies to prolong life.

[Ulrik]

Heh, I always guessed...only few times I got exact number.

Hellian is (for me surprisingly) 18? Coltaine cca 42...not-Apsalar 18-20...

Problem is that timeline isnt important:)

[D'rek]

For a lot of them you can guess based off of knowing that GotM is 10 years into Laseen's rule and when Laseen took the throne the 7C conquest was over, so BBs in Raraku, Kalam being a Falah'd's assassin, etc all were before, and you've gotta guestimate how much before based on the geographic spread of Malaz through 7C at whatever rate you imagine it occured.

Hellian is 18 or 19 when she gets shipped outa Kartool I think.

Apsalar is extremely young - like 14-16when she signs up and so maybe 18-20ish by TtH. Crokus is a similar age.

Fiddler is probably between mid 20s to mid 30s.

WJ'd probly be a bit older, mid-30s to 40.

Dunsparrow is mid-20s.
Leoman is old enough to remember a lot, so likely gettin close to 30 if not past it.

Hedge - same age as fid.

Kalam - probably a bit old, like 30 or mid-30s, since he has a long career.

QB - his sister is older and she only seems in the 20-40 range. (Probly favouring the younger side of that, btw).

Laseen, Nok, Dujek, Urko, Cartheron, Ameron, Hawl, Cotillion, Dassem - all more than 110 by GotM, most probably closer to 130.

Kellanved - 160+ (was old before they got access to the Deadhouse)

[Aptorian]

I think the idea that Fiddler was just a kid during the burning of the Mouse is a GotMism.My impression is that he's somewhere in his late 30s, early 40s. Whiskeyjack is probably 5-10 years older than Fiddler.

Dujek was around 70 in GotM I think. It's mentioned somewhere and I'm pretty sure he's mentioned as being 70ish. Originally Dujek was just a kid that hung out with the Old Family, probably some kind of errant boy or something. Like Duiker and Toc the Elder, Dujek was taken into the fold of the Family and he got some of the longevity.

[haroos]

Aptorian, on 14 June 2010 - 08:16 PM, said:

I think the idea that Fiddler was just a kid during the burning of the Mouse is a GotMism.My impression is that he's somewhere in his late 30s, early 40s. Whiskeyjack is probably 5-10 years older than Fiddler.

Dujek was around 70 in GotM I think. It's mentioned somewhere and I'm pretty sure he's mentioned as being 70ish. Originally Dujek was just a kid that hung out with the Old Family, probably some kind of errant boy or something. Like Duiker and Toc the Elder, Dujek was taken into the fold of the Family and he got some of the longevity.

in gotm dujek is 79, it's stated.

in bonehunters fiddler remembers being with whiskeyjack when WJ was apprentice to a mason.
kalam and quick ben are with the bridgeburners for about 20 years, so WJ in MoI told rake.

duiker in DG was made into a historian by kellanved himself (in 7C) after more than a decade as a soldier (he didn't even know how to read), so i'm assuming it's
at least 30 years ago (as of DG).

and of course dassem, dancer and kellanved were all "killed" 7 years before GoTM begins, and TTH is (i think) about 6-8 years later ?

the timelines are confusing here.

[Aptorian]

haroos, on 14 June 2010 - 08:28 PM, said:

kalam and quick ben are with the bridgeburners for about 20 years, so WJ in MoI told rake.

Not 20 years. Unless there are details missing. This is too long. At the time of the Mouse burning it is... the first year of Laseens rule? I think it's the first year. It is mentioned that they are still sifting through the smoking ruins of Y'Ghatan for the body of Dassem who supposedly fell there. GotM takes place some 9 years later. How much time passed between Raraku and the "forging" of the BBs, is unknown, but it surely can't be as much as ten years. Maybe a couple of years took place between Raraku and the burning of the Mouse quarter. At most 5 years I'd imagine.

Then again, it is strange that the BBs in NoK already have a reputation as a bunch of cut throat elites. And how did they manage to become favorites of the Emperor if he was not around to see them in action?

haroos, on 14 June 2010 - 08:28 PM, said:

and of course dassem, dancer and kellanved were all "killed" 7 years before GoTM begins, and TTH is (i think) about 6-8 years later ?

At least 9 years. The date is mentioned in the first chapter about the fight at Pale.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 14 June 2010 - 08:58 PM

[Harvester]

Haven't the BBs been fighting in Mott Wood and Blackdog Forest for years? And what about Pale? That one took years too, as far as I recall.

[Aptorian]

That would be what happened in between the prologue of GotM and the siege of Pale. They fought for 9 years on Genebackis.

[Harvester]

Aw gawd, you're right - my bad.
Do we actually know how long the 7Cs campaign took or rather the rebellion?...

This post has been edited by Harvester: 14 June 2010 - 10:22 PM

[Aptorian]

Well, there was more than one. The war taking place when the BBs were made was after the continent had already been conquered.

[Harvester]

Sure, they conquered 7Cs and the BBs were forged in the uprising that followed years later - but I wonder how long it took to quell that rebellion.
Timelines make my head hurt.

This post has been edited by Harvester: 14 June 2010 - 10:30 PM

[D'rek]

Put it this way - the first 100 years of the Malazan Empire are pretty much entirely comprised of the Quon Tali unification and the conquest of 7C (including one big rebellion during that conquest). Genebackis and Korel are begun relatively near the end of those 100 years. Now you gotta decide how much of that 100 years is Quon Tali and how much is 7C...



As for the BBs, we know their trek through Raraku was part of suppressing a rebellion (not the same as Barathol's Aren one, I believe we established). The city they started at was just being re-conquered, and afterwards they still had to take over g'danisban. Plus you need lots of battles for the BB's reputation to grow, and it all ends in Y'Ghatan. The original group of a few dozen needs to grow to thousands and WJ needs to be moved out, then Korbolo Dom put in charge and go through battles with him, then Dujek promoted to replace him. So again, plenty of time should go by. If there's anything we've learned of 7C rebellions, they don't end quickly. With that in mind, 10 years fighting in 7C sounds reasonable to me for the BBs, if anything I'd make it longer. It also gives plenty of time for QB to do his rising in the shadow priesthood ranks and Kalam to spend time as a Clawmaster before returning to the ranks.

[Soulessdreamer]

If there is one thing SE shows us in the novels it is the improtance of experiance in warfare.

The best warriors ae the immortals. Why? Becuase they have been there done that and have had the time and experiance to learn how to do it right. The liosan are the exception that prove the rule.

The same is true of the armies.

the malazans are the best because they have been fighting for decades learning and adapting but most of all using healing magics and life extension techniques like high denal rituals to keep there "cadre".

Learning the lessions of those who came before you is one thing, being the one who learnt those lessions and can apply them is better.

The only mortal army anywhere near the malazans level of skill is the Crimson guard. Why? because of the avowed.

So life exstention for even grunts who have proven themsleves would be worth the expense IMO.

I would add a couple more decades at the pre BH main characters estimated ages personally.

TTFN

[Aptorian]

Soulessdreamer, on 15 June 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

If there is one thing SE shows us in the novels it is the improtance of experiance in warfare.

The best warriors are the immortals. Why? Because they have been there done that and have had the time and experience to learn how to do it right. The liosan are the exception that prove the rule.

Actually if there is one thing that Erikson keeps beating us over the head with, it is the notion that old does not necessarily trumph new. Dassem, Brys Beddict, Trull Sengar, Mok, Quick Ben, etc. are all "relatively" young on the ascendant time scale and have proved themselves to be very scary individuals.

Soulessdreamer, on 15 June 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

The same is true of the armies.

the malazans are the best because they have been fighting for decades learning and adapting but most of all using healing magics and life extension techniques like high denal rituals to keep there "cadre".

The only mortal army anywhere near the malazans level of skill is the Crimson guard. Why? because of the avowed.

The only mortal army? The armies on assail beg to differ. So does Broods host. The Seguleh. The Barghast. The Grey Helms/Swords. The Teblor. The Edur, etc. In the Malazan area of the world they are superior but the world is a big place. There are other armies that can give them a run for their money. The real difference lies in Munitions, and this is a not an indicator of military skill and strategy.

Soulessdreamer, on 15 June 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

So life exstention for even grunts who have proven themsleves would be worth the expense IMO.

Why on earth would you spend that kind of effort on a soldier? This is the ancient world, soldiers come by the boatload. There's plenty of young, poor, ambitious, curious young women and men to draw from. The Malazan Empire has no lack of willing ablebodied men, the only limitation is the Empires coffers.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 15 June 2010 - 07:23 AM

[Soulessdreamer]

Aptorian, on 15 June 2010 - 07:20 AM, said:

Soulessdreamer, on 15 June 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

If there is one thing SE shows us in the novels it is the improtance of experiance in warfare.

The best warriors are the immortals. Why? Because they have been there done that and have had the time and experience to learn how to do it right. The liosan are the exception that prove the rule.

Actually if there is one thing that Erikson keeps beating us over the head with, it is the notion that old does not necessarily trumph new. Dassem, Brys Beddict, Trull Sengar, Mok, Quick Ben, etc. are all "relatively" young on the ascendant time scale and have proved themselves to be very scary individuals.

Young in a cronological sense yes but not in experiance.

Aptorian, on 15 June 2010 - 07:20 AM, said:

Soulessdreamer, on 15 June 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

The same is true of the armies.

the malazans are the best because they have been fighting for decades learning and adapting but most of all using healing magics and life extension techniques like high denal rituals to keep there "cadre".

The only mortal army anywhere near the malazans level of skill is the Crimson guard. Why? because of the avowed.

The only mortal army? The armies on assail beg to differ. So does Broods host. The Seguleh. The Barghast. The Grey Helms/Swords. The Teblor. The Edur, etc. In the Malazan area of the world they are superior but the world is a big place. There are other armies that can give them a run for their money. The real difference lies in Munitions, and this is a not an indicator of military skill and strategy.

I conceed the point on the basis we haven't seen enough of the other mortal armies at work.

I would dispute the barghast and broods host though, they seem to have the zergling rush tatic and nothing more. And do segulah even have armies?

Aptorian, on 15 June 2010 - 07:20 AM, said:

Soulessdreamer, on 15 June 2010 - 01:15 AM, said:

So life exstention for even grunts who have proven themsleves would be worth the expense IMO.

Why on earth would you spend that kind of effort on a soldier? This is the ancient world, soldiers come by the boatload. There's plenty of young, poor, ambitious, curious young women and men to draw from. The Malazan Empire has no lack of willing ablebodied men, the only limitation is the Empires coffers.

Cadre cadre cadre oh and moral.

I'm not saying everyone gets it willy nilly, just those who have proved themselves worth the investment.

TTFN

[Aptorian]

A yes, the aristocracy.

[Soulessdreamer]

Aptorian, on 16 June 2010 - 05:09 AM, said:

A yes, the aristocracy.

The aristocracy would already have access. If you look at the main players in the Malazan empire and millitary (pre laseen) you notice the same old band of cut-throat pirates that first took Malaz Island.

In fact I seem to remember something about the aristocracy being culled at least once in the empires history.

TTFN