[Obdigore]

Salt-Man Z, on 03 July 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

The first Runelords book was phenomenal, but the next three books did that slow slide into mediocrity that too many series do. (Oh, look, more Reavers...again.) I've been intrigued by the premise of some of the later books, but the Amazon reviews have completely scared me off. That, and the fact that I've discovered far better authors to read in the intervening years.

This.

Hardcore Fantasy Sci-Fi - MBOTF and Nights Dawn Trilogy are the two top dogs in my book. I really enjoyed GRRM when I first read them, but I cannot bring myself to re-read them as I can with MBOTF.
More Fun, Lighter Reads - Dresden Files, Alera, Garrett P.I. Novels.

Honorable Mentions:
First Law Trilogy
Warbreaker
Name of the Wind
Lions of Al-Rasan
Lies of Locke Lamora (although the second in this series is not as good)
Magician (and not the rest)

Those of you saying Otherland is the best, are you doing the first 3, or including the fourth? If you remove the fourth, it is great, the fourth book destroys that series.

Black Company by Cook should be up there as well, but it cannot compete with MBOTF for hardcore, and certainly dosen't qualify as a 'lighter' read.

[Salt-Man Z]

Obdigore, on 08 July 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Lies of Locke Lamora (although the second in this series is not as good)

That's like saying one piece of bacon isn't as good as two pieces of bacon.

[Obdigore]

Salt-Man Z, on 08 July 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 08 July 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Lies of Locke Lamora (although the second in this series is not as good)

That's like saying one piece of bacon isn't as good as two pieces of bacon.

Its like saying Thick Cut deliciously cooked bacon is better than undercooked turkey bacon.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 08 July 2010 - 07:28 PM

[McLovin]

ObsoleteResolve, on 03 July 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:

Fantasy, Viriconium is amazing.

I know I'm supposed to say I agree to maintain my fantasy lit-snob cred, but...meh. Viriconium left me cold. Aloof and pretentious, something a young MFA student would write. Also, while I don't mind an author making me run to the dictionary to look up a word, when you have to do it every other fncking page, only to learn that it's yet another word for "green" I start getting cranky. Harrison's later stuff (e.g., Light) is a lot better IMO.

[McLovin]

Mentalist, on 03 July 2010 - 01:08 AM, said:

Runelords are kind of hit or miss.

Runelords would have been greatly improved by jettisoning the whole Earth King/reavers story. You have a fascinating magic system that has all sorts of interesting implications to explore...and you tack on that sh!t? I bailed after Book 1.

[Salt-Man Z]

I enjoyed the Reavers (at first) but I groaned at the Earth King cliche crap.

[ObsoleteResolve]

McLovin, on 08 July 2010 - 07:35 PM, said:

ObsoleteResolve, on 03 July 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:

Fantasy, Viriconium is amazing.

I know I'm supposed to say I agree to maintain my fantasy lit-snob cred, but...meh. Viriconium left me cold. Aloof and pretentious, something a young MFA student would write. Also, while I don't mind an author making me run to the dictionary to look up a word, when you have to do it every other fncking page, only to learn that it's yet another word for "green" I start getting cranky. Harrison's later stuff (e.g., Light) is a lot better IMO.

I didn't find him inaccessible, and didn't have many problems with the word choice, etc. The only book that ever caused me problems with that was my first (and only) attempt at Gormenghast by Peake. After having to resort to a dictionary four times on like the third page alone, which isn't even talking about the one or two times I had to on both of the previous pages, I said fuck that noise.

It might've helped that I read it right after reading Shadow & Claw by Gene Wolfe, if I remember right.

Later on I tried Jeff Vandermeer's City of Saints & Madmen, but Draden in Love completely shut down that endeavor. Might try re-reading that, though-- Finch, Vandermeer's latest Ambergris foray, was excellent. Maybe he'll be like Bakker was for me-- hated the first time I tried to read the first book of the Prince of Nothing trilogy, picked it up at a later date, and loved it.

[McLovin]

ObsoleteResolve, on 09 July 2010 - 12:35 AM, said:

Later on I tried Jeff Vandermeer's City of Saints & Madmen, but Draden in Love completely shut down that endeavor.

Yeah, same here. Actually I got through that bit IIRC, but then when Vandermeer inserted himself into the story I couldn't be bothered anymore.

[Abyss]

Mentalist, on 22 June 2010 - 03:44 AM, said:

... Sapkowski's "The Witcher", ...

Yes to THE LAST WISH for doing something fun and different but BLOOD OF ELVES was weak.

Obdigore, on 08 July 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 03 July 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

The first Runelords book was phenomenal, but the next three books did that slow slide into mediocrity ...

This.

McLovin, on 08 July 2010 - 07:51 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 03 July 2010 - 01:08 AM, said:

Runelords are kind of hit or miss.

Runelords would have been greatly improved by jettisoning the whole Earth King/reavers story. You have a fascinating magic system that has all sorts of interesting implications to explore...and you tack on that sh!t? I bailed after Book 1.

I read the first four, so i'm informed in my opinion. Great ideas. Atrocious series. Farland cannot write characters. Or dialogue. Or plot.

Quote

...Those of you saying Otherland is the best, are you doing the first 3, or including the fourth? If you remove the fourth, it is great, the fourth book destroys that series.

Funny, i liked the 4th but could have lived without massive chunks of 2 and 3. There are entire massive storylines in that series of no value at all. But that's a Tad Williams thing and i suppose you deal or you don't.

Obdigore, on 08 July 2010 - 07:22 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 08 July 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 08 July 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Lies of Locke Lamora (although the second in this series is not as good)

That's like saying one piece of bacon isn't as good as two pieces of bacon.

Its like saying Thick Cut deliciously cooked bacon is better than undercooked turkey bacon.

Yep. And if you started with the good stuff, the under prep'd birdbacon can only suffer by comparison no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that it tastes the same.

[McLovin]

Turkey bacon should be classified as an act of terrorism. Veggie bacon purveyors should be considered armed and dangerous, and you are authorized to shoot on sight.

- McLovin, doesn't like you messin' with his bacon...

[ansible]

Abyss, on 09 July 2010 - 02:12 PM, said:

Quote

...Those of you saying Otherland is the best, are you doing the first 3, or including the fourth? If you remove the fourth, it is great, the fourth book destroys that series.

Funny, i liked the 4th but could have lived without massive chunks of 2 and 3. There are entire massive storylines in that series of no value at all. But that's a Tad Williams thing and i suppose you deal or you don't.

I totally agree with this. The first book was great, 2 and 3 were slow (especially 3 if I remember right), and 4 was pretty good. The middle of this series is what prevents me from rereading it, even years later.

I'll second The Night's Dawn trilogy as some of the best sci-fi I've read. As for fantasy, I'd probably list The Book of the New Sun and MBotF.

[Use Of Weapons]

Agree re: Otherland. But, BEST COVERS EVER. Michael Whelanis a genius.

[Mentalist]

@ Abyss: Blood of the Elves was pretty weak, but it does some major picking up soon. it was kind of like a set up book.

also, before it, there was also "Sword of Destiny"--the second short story collection, which makes Blood of the Elves make MUCH more sense...

[Abyss]

Mentalist, on 12 July 2010 - 01:46 PM, said:

@ Abyss: Blood of the Elves was pretty weak, but it does some major picking up soon. it was kind of like a set up book.

also, before it, there was also "Sword of Destiny"--the second short story collection, which makes Blood of the Elves make MUCH more sense...

I'll likely pick up whatever translates next on the strength of LAST WISH, but dah-yam BLOOD was all over the place, barely featured the lead character and spent pages... PAGES... on once-appearing characters babbling nonsense in not at all a good way.

The english-langauge publishers are doing some weird shit with this, no?

I mean, non-linear storytelling is all well and good, but it helps if the middle-part you spring on people is, well, ...not bad.

- Abyss, ...not impressed.

[polishgenius]

I really need to get on reading those books. For some reason I've only got Blood of the Elves (in Polish, that is). I tried to get them when I was last in Poland, but I couldn't find Last Wish anywhere.

[Mentalist]

I read em all in Russian. the short stories were brilliant, the novels were okay and then got great, but the ending was a little off. my comments about them are buried somewhere deep in the "reading at t'moment" thread, about each one individually.

I just remeber that once i've stated reading them, I read all of them in a row, non-stop, untill I was done.

EDIT: quoting myself from that thread:

Mentalist, on 11 January 2009 - 12:56 AM, said:

Unlike "Blood of the Elves" that served largely as a set-up book linking the 2 "prequel-ish" short stories collections with the events of the novels, "Times of Disdain" delivers. and then some
The story goes epic, the stuff only briefly hinted at in "Blood of the Elves" explodes onto the stage.
The atmosphere is reminiscent of "Feast for Crows" though the Witcher was written earlier, iirc.
stuff keeps happening. the scale of what's happening in places where the main characters aren't present is told through highlighting key episodes--and these short bits are masterfully written and really make you appreciate the scope of the work.

onto "Baptism by Fire" now, and I am HOOKED

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 13 July 2010 - 01:53 AM

[Morgoth]

You guys have of course read the title of this thread?

How can you possibly justify most of the books listed here as belonging to "absolute best"?

[Use Of Weapons]

Morgoth, on 13 July 2010 - 10:09 AM, said:

You guys have of course read the title of this thread?

How can you possibly justify most of the books listed here as belonging to "absolute best"?

That's why I limited myself to one series each from fantasy and science fiction.

And I stand by em both. The Vorkosigan series has won more awards for Bujold than any living author -- she's tied with Heinlein on four Hugo awards (for The Vor Game, Barrayar, and Mirror Dance, with the fourth being for her fantasy Paladin of Souls), and four nominations (Falling Free, Memory (which should totally have won -- Kim Stanley Robinson's Blue Mars won that year, I think only in recognition of the effort he'd put into the series rather than its ultimate quality), A Civil Campaign (awesome, awesome book -- lost out to Vernor Vinge's A Deepness in the Sky, which I'll grudgingly accept as justified, I suppose), and The Curse of Chalion, which lost out to Neil Gaiman's American Gods). There really isn't a weak book in the series, and they are fun on a scale that rivals, and in a number of places, surpasses Butcher.

The Discworld series has no rivals. It's practically a genre in itself. Hell, Pratchett did for comic fantasy what Tolkien did for fantasy -- made it respectable, made it complex, made it ring with echoes of myth and legend and humanity.

[Gothos]

Mentalist, on 13 July 2010 - 01:38 AM, said:

EDIT: quoting myself from that thread:

Mentalist, on 11 January 2009 - 12:56 AM, said:

Unlike "Blood of the Elves" that served largely as a set-up book linking the 2 "prequel-ish" short stories collections with the events of the novels, "Times of Disdain" delivers. and then some
The story goes epic, the stuff only briefly hinted at in "Blood of the Elves" explodes onto the stage.
The atmosphere is reminiscent of "Feast for Crows" though the Witcher was written earlier, iirc.
stuff keeps happening. the scale of what's happening in places where the main characters aren't present is told through highlighting key episodes--and these short bits are masterfully written and really make you appreciate the scope of the work.

onto "Baptism by Fire" now, and I am HOOKED

It's the series that actually got me reading anything AT ALL, so I might be a bit biased, but... I have to agree that Krew Elfów is the weakest point of the entire bibliography regarding the Witcher. But hell, doesn't book two pick up the pace. Some of the most memorable scenes from anything ever, like the sorcerers' ball at Thanedd, the subsequent conversation of Geralt and Vilgefortz, spending the night near an ancient elven cemetary at a hermit's hut in book 3, GOD I'd give a lot to forget these just so I can read them for the first time again. Books 2-5 I've come back to and re-read at least 11 times, each.
Though from what I hear and see, translations hardly do the books justice. You just have to know the original language, more so than you think. It's why I read Erikson in english.


Go Go Thread Necromancer

[Abyss]

Gothos, on 18 November 2010 - 12:13 PM, said:

...Though from what I hear and see, translations hardly do the books justice. You just have to know the original language, more so than you think. It's why I read Erikson in english.
...

It's a bit of a one-two punch, isn't it... the language loses coherence in the translation and the work loses coherence due to the order thestories are translated. That parts especially weird because you'de think they would just follow the original publishing order rather than risk losing readers... because honestly without peoples on this forum telling me it gets better, BLOOD would have been it for me.

Back on the original point more or less, does anyone have a favoruite book that was de-throned by something else? Mine was STORM OF SWORDS before i read DEADHOUSE GATES, then MoI pushed it to third.

'absolute best' is tricky because what was best at one point in time can change with the reader and what they read. THE HOBBIT still holds a special place in my bloodpumpy parts, but it's far from 'best'.

- Abyss, sees your thread necro and raise you a thread drift...