[haroos]

why was the involvement of the deragoth needed to kill the d'ivers ?
we have seen that 2 of the 7 d'ivers were killed by a small group of trell, who were attacked by the d'ivers as a whole, and taken by surprise.
also another d'ivers was killed by a lone soldier, and another was wounded.
iskaral pust was able to make the d'ivers run to the hills.

so why the use of an elephant to swat a much reduced rabbit ?

This post has been edited by haroos: 09 June 2010 - 05:01 PM

[Aptorian]

Paran is not the most knowledgable person with power. Basically he over reacted. Shadowthrone capitalised on this as he used the freeing of the Deragoth as means of taking out Poleil. He made the shadow hounds steal the last part of Dejim and take it to the Temple of Poleil.

The reason why Dejim turned out to be less of threat than thought is because of the plague. Dejim needed to feed on blood (and flesh?) to grow strong, but after his first 4 course meal consisting of the Nameless Ones he was unable to find more sustenance as such he was unable to increase his numbers and grow stronger. If Dejim had been released before the Apocalypse revolt and the plague he would have found plenty of villages to pillage and he would have been very bad news indeed. Imagine something like a demonic version of the Dhenrhabi D'ivers from DG probably. But as it turned out not only couldn't he find anything to eat, he also kept running into one bad scrape after another.

It wasn't a "small group of trell" though, that was Iccy and Mappo, not exactly easy pickings.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Because everyone (dejim included) overestimated the d'ivers. Paran knew abou the terror of the First Empire and could not understand that Dejim hadn't been able to adapt to the new world. That'swhy he decided to free the Deragoth and once fred ST decided to continue with the plan and give them Dejim so they would be busy for a while.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 09 June 2010 - 05:13 PM

[Abyss]

The point was that Dejim was potentially VERY dangerous. Crazy theory runs that the NOs deliberately messed with his head to send him into the unpopulated area once his ambush of Iccy and Mappo was done, but that's unproven.

Left to himself, he would eat and split off new shadow lizard bodies and keep going. This would be bad. So Paran took steps to take him out AND worked that into his plan to deal with Poliel.

Did the plan really need the Deragoth when the Hounds arguably could have taken out Dejim and Poliel by themselves... maybe not, but the deragth wouldn't act without bait and the Hounds would have been at risk against Poliel at least. Speculation on my part, but it makes sense.

- Abyss, also notes it was just a neat convergence.

[foolio]

the thing that always bothered me the most was the fact that Masan Galani killed one, and yet they could have killed Icarium without him doing any damage to them.

They knocked the most dangerous entity walking the world out cold, yet couldnt kill a naked marine with a knife?

Or do we assume that Icarium will only stay unconscious if he is not in mortal danger? Like if one were to bite into his neck, would he regain consciousness and turn into a mobile nuke?

[haroos]

Aptorian, on 09 June 2010 - 05:10 PM, said:

Paran is not the most knowledgable person with power. Basically he over reacted. Shadowthrone capitalised on this as he used the freeing of the Deragoth as means of taking out Poleil. He made the shadow hounds steal the last part of Dejim and take it to the Temple of Poleil.

The reason why Dejim turned out to be less of threat than thought is because of the plague. Dejim needed to feed on blood (and flesh?) to grow strong, but after his first 4 course meal consisting of the Nameless Ones he was unable to find more sustenance as such he was unable to increase his numbers and grow stronger. If Dejim had been released before the Apocalypse revolt and the plague he would have found plenty of villages to pillage and he would have been very bad news indeed. Imagine something like a demonic version of the Dhenrhabi D'ivers from DG probably. But as it turned out not only couldn't he find anything to eat, he also kept running into one bad scrape after another.

It wasn't a "small group of trell" though, that was Iccy and Mappo, not exactly easy pickings.

about the trell, i'm pretty sure that it meant a different group of trell.
and that iccarium and mappo were ambushed succesfuly without incident, i'll have to find that part again.

[Abyss]

foolio, on 09 June 2010 - 06:18 PM, said:

the thing that always bothered me the most was the fact that Masan Galani killed one, and yet they could have killed Icarium without him doing any damage to them.

I know what you mean. My rationale is by then Dejim is hungry and sloppy. And Masan does seem to be a damned good fighter.

Plut it ate her horse first which gave her a slight warning Iccy didn't have.

Quote

They knocked the most dangerous entity walking the world out cold, yet couldnt kill a naked marine with a knife?

Or do we assume that Icarium will only stay unconscious if he is not in mortal danger? Like if one were to bite into his neck, would he regain consciousness and turn into a mobile nuke?

That seems to be the theme. Put him in enough danger and suddenly it's all cole slaw.

haroos, on 09 June 2010 - 06:22 PM, said:

...about the trell, i'm pretty sure that it meant a different group of trell.
and that iccarium and mappo were ambushed succesfuly without incident, i'll have to find that part again.

When Dejim attacked Iccy and Mappo it lost two bodies to Mappo.

There is no other attack before Pust steps in and iirc, it's been mentioned more than once that Mappo was the only Trell on 7C.

Are you thinking of something Dejim recalls?

[haroos]

Abyss, on 09 June 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

When Dejim attacked Iccy and Mappo it lost two bodies to Mappo.

There is no other attack before Pust steps in and iirc, it's been mentioned more than once that Mappo was the only Trell on 7C.

Are you thinking of something Dejim recalls?

i'll have to check again, although how can mappo be the only trell on 7c, isn't the jhag odhan where the trell leave, in the north of that continant ?

This post has been edited by haroos: 09 June 2010 - 06:41 PM

[foolio]

There were definatley Trell on the seven cities continent during Mappos life. (he has memories of the battle where the trell gang stomped that Nation in the southern part of the continent. ) But we dont know exactly how long Mappo has been alive. Long enough for all the other trell to die? Maybe.

Edit:but i dont remember anything about Dejim losing a couple bodies to Trell a group of Trell. It would have had to of been something Dejim recalls in a POV, right? He loses at least one body to Mappo.

This post has been edited by foolio: 09 June 2010 - 06:56 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

seven cities is the subcontinent. it ends at the jhag odhan which is almost due south of y'ghatan. north and east of the jhag odhan, mappo is indeed the only trell. further west of the jhag odhan is nemil, and to the south of that, an area of hills and mountains that are home to the trell.

as far as i remember, during tBH, dejim encountered: the NO's, iccy and mappo, a merchant train, iskaral pust, masan gilani, the deragoth, the hounds of shadow, and poliel. in that order.

[foolio]

so what is the whole continent called?

[Gothos]

Wasn't really said yet. Roughly similarly sized parts have been named - Seven Cities (subcontinent), Jhag Odhan, Nemil, Perish, Shal-Morzinn. But no name for the whole landmass.

As for Dejim, I found him getting pretty much smacked a lovely parallel to Raest in GotM. The old devils come back and find out that the world has changed quite a bit differently than anticipated.

<DoD Spoiler>

Spoiler

Not the case for the K'Chain Che Malle I guess... though the New done by the insane matron did kinda cross the Nah'Rhuk. That and Iccy,

[Rhand]

Gothos, on 09 June 2010 - 08:49 PM, said:

Wasn't really said yet. Roughly similarly sized parts have been named - Seven Cities (subcontinent), Jhag Odhan, Nemil, Perish, Shal-Morzinn. But no name for the whole landmass.

As for Dejim, I found him getting pretty much smacked a lovely parallel to Raest in GotM. The old devils come back and find out that the world has changed quite a bit differently than anticipated.

Sorry for reviving this topic, but I just wanted to point out there's quite a difference between Raest (thoroughly weakened because they took the Finnest with his power away) having problems vs 4 or 5 dragons (injuring, and even killing a few I thought) and Dejim getting smacked around by practically everybody he encounters.
Their experiences are hardly comparable. If not for the Azath house, things might have gotten quite messy in Darujhistan, no?

This post has been edited by Rhand: 23 May 2011 - 07:11 PM

[Aptorian]

Dejim and Raest are two different kinds of threat. What if you weren't dealing with 7 demon d'ivers, but 700? What if Dejim morphed and became a super cluster of locusts? Or a Giant wolf monster like Ryllandaras? From the sound of it Dejim was originally very dangerous. Who knows what would have happened if he had come upon a city of thousands?