[Use Of Weapons]

MODGOD NOTE TO WARN - SPOILERS
MINOR SPOILERS FOR VARIOUS BOOKS VARIOUS AUTHORS THROUGHOUT THE THREAD BELOW SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

So, who are your top 5 villains? No Dark Lords, no forces of evil or chaos, no sentient weapons. Just bad people.

My 5:

1. Lanfear
2. Angus Thermopylae
3. Victor Remillard
4. The Crimson God
5. The Valheru (Alma-Lodaka, Draken-Korin)

[The Tyrant Lizard]

No particular order here.

The Moidart - Gemmell's Rigante books.

Black Dow - The First Law Trilogy (the baddest goody)

Gregor Clegane - aSoIaF. (Because, "my daughter's not a whore, Sir."
"She is now."

Jagang - SoT. (don't go lynching me here... Jagang was one of the good bits)

Kallor - MBotF.

[Abyss]

Off the top of my head...

Davore - Chung Kuo series, David Wingrove. For a long while you're really not sure whether this guy is a bold revolutionary or a sadistic murderfuck. (the last two books in the series never happened and you can't make me say otherwise).

Birdy - Ghost Ocean by S.M. Peters. She'll make you WANT to give her your eyes.

Skinwalker - Turncoat, Dresden Files series, Jim Butcher. Butcher's Dresden has faced some serious Big Bads but the Skinwalker was probably the biggest AND the baddest. AND an absolute bastard, beating out the Denariians and a few nasty others (as an aside i don't consider Marcone a 'villain' or he would top this list).

The No God - Bakker's Darkness that Comes Before series. He is SO evil, his very existance makes humanity sterile. Yes, he can wipe out a race just by showing up. That's EVIL.

The Crippled God - you know the who/what/where. An exceptionally well written villain and you can't even be sure he IS a villain. Well, not toally.


@TLizard - i refuse to give Goodkind any love, but Jagang WAS a neat idea.

[Use Of Weapons]

Agreed, skinwalker was a bad mofo.

Actually, I'm going to add Pratchett's Auditors of Reality, here. Comic, yeah, but creepy too.

[Aptorian]

 The Tyrant Lizard, on 01 June 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Jagang - SoT. (don't go lynching me here... Jagang was one of the good bits)

I don't know if he suddenly improves along the way, but from my memory, Jagang was just yet another example of Goodkind having no idea of what the hell depth of character means. There is black and there is white. Jagang is an evil Emperor who wants to be emperor because he wants to be emperor. There's no subtlety or nuance to his character. He is evil for the sake of being evil. He just wants power. He inflicts pain on his victims for no other reason than the fact that he can. He invades their minds for no particular reason. This is not a good bad guy. This is a stereo type baddie that children think up when they are playing with their GI Joes out in the garden.

Good baddies in my opinion are the guys that you like despite them being an asshole. Or the ones who are so deliciously over the top that you can't help but enjoy their screen time. The ones where there is a means and a method to the villainy.

Guys like the Joker, for his pure insane murderous schemes or Doctor Doom for his arrogance and elitism.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 01 June 2010 - 03:15 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

 jitsukerr, on 01 June 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

2. Angus Thermopylae

I can only see Angus as reluctant hero. I'd peg Nick Succorso as villain, though.

In no particular order:

• Darth Caedus - Star Wars: Legacy of the Force
  
• Master Eremis - Donaldson's Mordant's Need
  
• Soulcatcher - Cook's Black Company
  
• Steerpike - Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast
  
• Ma'elKoth - Stover's Acts of Caine

[D'rek]

 Aptorian, on 01 June 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

Good baddies in my opinion are the guys that you like despite them being an asshole. Or the ones who are so deliciously over the top that you can't help but enjoy their screen time. The ones where there is a means and a method to the villainy.

Kefka (FF6)

[Abyss]

 Aptorian, on 01 June 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

...I don't know if he suddenly improves along the way...

Not really, but as a concept, his whole 'Dreamwalker' thing was neat. As a character he was barely a bad stereotype.

 Salt-Man Z, on 01 June 2010 - 03:48 PM, said:

• Ma'elKoth - Stover's Acts of Caine

Strong choice, tho' he's another one it's hard to place in the pure 'villain' category. Stover's Evil God thing from the second Caine book positively chews scenery tho'.

I rather liked Xar from Weis and Hickman's DEATHGATE CYLE. Clearly a villain but one who has warm fuzzy reasons for doing what he does. he's all about helping his people. As long as they don't piss him off.


I can't really explain it without spoilers, but the Big Bad in Stross' THE ATROCITY ARCHIVES is staggering in concept. Same books does some prety sick shit with Nazis.

I just remembered another good one... Asmodeus, from Mike Carey's Felix Castor series. REALLY complex villain, rules every scene he's in or even referred to.

And say what one will about Alan Campbell's Deepgate Codex series, Carnival is an absolutely great villain in SCAR NIGHT.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

But Devon beats her as as the villain of the piece and simply steals every scene. Also one could say that by the end Carnival becomes sort of good.

Anyway here's my list in no particular order.

Kallor
Rhulad. Okay he's more of an ambitious guy manipulated by crazy god and then turned mad but I think that he can stay in the list.
The afore mentioned Devon.
Mekeritrig or the Mantraitor. He has only one scene in A Darkness that Comes Before plus one in one of Akka's Dreams and needs no more to be on this list.
Gregor Clegane.

The "he has great promise" award goes to:

Cinder from The Name of the Wind

[Gabriele]

A few that came just up when I thought about the question:

Lady de Winter and her son Mordaunt
Pryrates
Aeglyss (wonder if anyone gets that one )
Brian de Bois-Guilbert
Anasûrimbor Kellhus

Morgoth - I know he's a powerful Dark Lord, but what a fun character to hate.

[Mrjaco12]

Artemis Entreri. Say what you will about Salvatore, or Drizzt, or that every single one of his characters fits perfectly into one stereotype or another, I love Artemis Entreri. It's about as close as you're going to come to a perfect character, even in Sellswords where he is the protagonist. Entreri is one bad dude.

[polishgenius]

Petyr Littlefinger - aSoIaF. Magnificent bastard, and that's all that needs to be said.

My favourite outright villain from Dresden Files is Nicodemus, but if he counts as one then it's easily Johnny Marcone. Skinwalker paled a little for me because I read him just after the penultimate Felix Castor book, and compared to Asmodeus from those, who Abyss also mentioned, he's a mewling kitten. Asmodeus is an amazing bad guy.

Am I allowed to count Darkseid as a fantasy villain? Because... well, he's Darkseid.


Since they're fresh in my head, from China Mieville's Kraken - Goss and Subby. If you've read Gaiman's Neverwhere, take Kruppe and Vadermar and multiply the freakishness and the evil. They steal every scene that they're in.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 01 June 2010 - 07:30 PM

[foolio]

[Macros]

The Modiart - Gemmel

Black Dow - Abercrombie

Agamemnon - (Gemmels version from the Troy series, such a bastard that gets a great ending)

The Lady - Cook

I forget his name, from MT, you know who I mean, mad bastard. - Erikson



oh and sidi from fiests darkwar books.............I kid, I kid

[Coco with marshmallows]

David Xanatos.

He's such a good villain, he has trope's named after him.....

[The Tyrant Lizard]

What I liked about Jagang were his powers. He was such a horrble twat, but was completely untouchable by anyone - good or evil - because he could preempt everything. I found that quite amusing. One of Goodkind's better ideas.

[Euler]

1 kallor

2 crippled god


3 lanfear (forsaken in general are kinda cool)

4 black dow

[foolio]

Gordon Gekko
and an honorable mention to Gerun Ebberict.

This post has been edited by foolio: 01 June 2010 - 08:46 PM

[Abyss]

 Bauchelain the Evil, on 01 June 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

But Devon beats her as as the villain of the piece and simply steals every scene. ..

devon was solid but i liked Carnival more.

Quote

...
The "he has great promise" award goes to:
Cinder from The Name of the Wind

One of the few points i liked in NotW.

 polishgenius, on 01 June 2010 - 07:30 PM, said:

Petyr Littlefinger - aSoIaF. Magnificent bastard, and that's all that needs to be said.

seconded.

Quote

Am I allowed to count Darkseid as a fantasy villain? Because... well, he's Darkseid.

...but then you have to include Thanos, because they are basically the same dude.

 Macros, on 01 June 2010 - 07:48 PM, said:

Black Dow - Abercrombie
...

Not so sure he belongs on the list but he IS a right bastard.

 Cocoreturns, on 01 June 2010 - 07:59 PM, said:

David Xanatos.
He's such a good villain, he has trope's named after him.....

I always suspected Butcher secretely based Marcone on Xanatos. If a gargoyle ever punches Marcone in the face we'll have confirmation.

[rhulad]

Stokers Dracula 'cause it's a classic.
Lord Ruler from Mistborn
Wormtongue from LotR

Anyone else I would have listed has already been mentioned.