[Mockra]

Read up on Meanas, not a lot of content. He basically has 2 things he talks about

1) He doesn't like the spammers, says they could be scum trying to get super powerful abilities. Maybe he loses levels like m45 did in the first game.

2) He is pretty focused on Rashan, and was really focused on yesterday's lynch.

Here he talks about Barghast very briefly. Since it appears very likely that Barghast was a Syndicate creation, I like to look at things like this. It's not uncommon for a player to offer a false theory about something he knows. Note the semi-suggestion on waiting for the Barghast alt to speak, the "if the guy is [sic] smart" innuendo.

Meanas, on 20 May 2010 - 08:07 PM, said:

So would anyone think that Barghast entry may be a teams need reinforcement ability?

Meanas, on 20 May 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:

So If barghast was a team reinforcement I would see one of the surviving players in that team being given that role, so just try and see who barghast matches in that scenario. Also I think in this scenario to keep track the guy will alternate between the two alts.

If the guy is smart he may try two at once but it could lead to him fumbling by answering a question posed to his other alt. So there shouldn't be any crossposting between the two alts.

My suggestion is wait and see if barghast posts or not.

Here he votes Rashan. He will stay focused on Rashan for most of the day, even though he unvotes him later and tries to last-second-hammer Shadow (he misses because I voted first).

Meanas, on 20 May 2010 - 10:20 PM, said:

Right I'm just tired, I need to get to my bed, if I have the time in the morning before having to run out the house to get in a read I will.

But in case I'm not on I'll a vote.

Vote Rashan

he has 13 posts, it day 3 (ok I haven't done much better posting wise).

This in my opinion one post is his main contribution to this game.

It's post 702

Quote

In any case, since my last post I haven't seen any reason to continue reading into the scenes. And all the 'feigned lack of comprehension' is no doubt because people don't want to be revealed as having taken an action, regardless of what it is. So far, with no reference point, we have little to go on. This needs to change, so I say we go the lynching route. It doesn't really matter who, any lynch will give us leads and direction...then again, actions are what win factions the game, whereas lynches are what win Syndicate the game. But you need to find your own faction in order to pick out who to take actions on, don't you?

He says that we should lynch to go forward but then says that lynches are what scum need to win, I believe they have actions sir, so unless someone is lucky in their finds and reveals all for us then I would say best way to take scum out is us using our actions but also the valid threat of a lynch. If there is no threat of a lynch the scum are more inclined to relax. Sure there the chance they may get hit by a vig but this early in the game I would be surprised if a vig hits scum.

Rashan the only type of lynch that would help scum win is poorly thought out speed lynches.

Also lynches mean less people, therefore we have a smaller pool of suspects to use said actions upon. Even if there was some losses in very powerful roles for the inno teams the rest of us should have enough abilities to have some effect.

Meanas, on 24 May 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:

My comment about the barghast alt is that it was a second alt for a player, not that it was a dummy alt.

Ok I argued against lynching the low posters as at the time of that discussion I only had three posts and would have been the automatic conclusion. The votes for me wouldn't have been about what I posted was scummy but the fact that I was lagging behind due to the fact that I wasn't on the web until then.

My comment is that people spamming heavily in this game are desperate to get to those upper power levels, the sort of thing that comes to mind is kills and vigs, ok they may be a spy team or they could be syndicate.

Now my vote for Rashan, maybe it partly due to that there been more discussion and less spam, but 23 posts out of his 36 were made on this game day, that 63% of his current posts were made on day 3. To fully clarify this though day 3 did include Thursday, Friday and monday to 20 posts isn't that huge a shift but it puts him nine names up the list so he is less liely to attract attention to himself. But his posts have been consistant I don't see anything wrong with them so if he scum, well played sir.

remove vote

Also I don't care for speed lynching when we still have the time.

Here he doesn't appear to want to vote for Shadow or Galain. If he were Chinese and knew something about the Emur/Shadow business, I could understand not wanting to vote Shadow. Galain could be a soft defense, or it could just be he thinks the case is weak like others claimed. Note he still thinks Rashan is scummy, the blinders are on.

Meanas, on 24 May 2010 - 05:34 PM, said:

Can anyone else suggest someone else apart from shadow or Galain.

I say Rashan but there nothing scummy in what he said when I read over them, just how many posts he contributed in so short a time compared to what the rest of his posting rate.

Here's something else I noticed. Olar Ethil was clearly wrong.

Olar Ethil, on 20 May 2010 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yeah, I find it rather unlikely that the new Alt is syndicate, that doesn't mean it can't be a puppet of the syndicate.

EDIT: changed puttep to puppet.

Now what the above boils down to is that I kind of doubt Meanas is scum. The hint-hint-wink-wink-nudge-nudge about the Barghast alt bothers me, but I think I maybe influenced by my knowledge of what happened.

I tend to believe scum are not likely to put on the blinders and make a single case and try to get it lynched as he did with Rashan, so it makes me feel he's more likely innocent than not.

[Mockra]

Silanah, on 25 May 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 03:47 PM, said:

Now I think the person I want to vote for is either GL or Meanas. GL always sounds suspicious but that could just be how he talks. Meanas is basically based upon GL's mystery vote. If GL doesn't know how to put in a case that Meanas is scum, he (Meanas) very well could be. But if GL is scum, he could just be constructing a poor case.

Since Shadow probably came up Spy, and I figure there's at least some connection between the two, it makes me less likely to consider GL as scum. I would think he knows who Meanas is (be it scum or otherwise), but I don't know what he's trying to achieve with just 'revealing [his] suspect' and laying down a vote.

See that's funny because the case I was writing just now suggested Meanas could possibly be Chinese, although that is a weak suggestion. I haven't read GL, but I was actually more inclined to think him inno than Meanas, but after the read-up, I'm now more convinced of Meanas's innocence, so by proxy, GL seems more innocent to me.

That leaves me back at square one.

[Mockra]

Well I wasn't really a big fan of the Ruse case, but since my leads turned up empty, I'm wondering if it's at least vote worthy. But the smugness from Omtose who almost seems to relish being "in the open" with his nationality is bothering me.

I mean, isn't there at least some logic in saying, "Every Chinese player we lynch is more likely to be Syndicate?" since 2 are already dead?

Gah, it's too early to play factions!

What do you think, Sil?

edit: and the rest of you lurkers, too!

This post has been edited by Mockra: 25 May 2010 - 04:52 PM

[Olar Ethil]

Good read up. My thoughts.

It's clear that Meanas and Rashan are the Bald man, and the man in white. Deciding who is who, is more difficult. As it was pointed out earlier, the scene in the car that some have pegged a syndicate meeting have a Bald guy in them.

Now we have 2 people, voting Seeming randomly, for Meanas, and for Rashan. Which hints at inside info that they can't or won't reveal.

Rashan has straight up denied being the bald guy ( Which would make him the man in white) but that has to be taken with a grain of salt, as he certainly can't verify it.


If you are of the belief that the meeting in the car, between the 2 little people, and the older guy was a syndicate meeting, then there's a 50/50 shot you could get the bald guy, by voting Rashan or Meanas.

Not sure where I want to go with this right now. But the fact that Rashan did up his posting when called on it, and his sudden retreat back into low postage makes me lean more towards him being the bald man, and scum. At this point, I am probably going to vote Rashan, but I am gonna go back and read a little more before I make my vote. I will be here all day, for at least the next 6 hours, so no rush from me.

[Mockra]

@Olar, that's a good thought. How do you reconcile Rashan's mystery vote/remove vote business if he's scum?

[Olar Ethil]

Also, I think D'riss gave some good info on the Cigarette lady. To me it was pretty clear she was the one that originated the Barghy alt and set him loose on Mockra. Her dealing with the criminal underworld, and her seemingly lack of concern for the lives of her "minions" certainly suggests she is scum. I would rather vote her if we had a suspect for who she was, but at this point I have no clue.

[Olar Ethil]

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

@Olar, that's a good thought. How do you reconcile Rashan's mystery vote/remove vote business if he's scum?

Well, even if you are scum, you are subject to the whim of other people's actions. Say a Chinese had the ability to direct a vote ( I am just guessing here, they are the most closely tied to voting in their VC's)

if a spy had this ability, and used it on a scum, if that scum didn't have specific defenses against that ability, he might be forced to vote how the spy wanted him to.


It's a stretch, but if you guard a scum, he's still guarded. If you direct a scum to vote, I imagine he would still be forced to vote.

EDIT: added the word 'to" and an "m" to correct a spelling mistake.

This post has been edited by Olar Ethil: 25 May 2010 - 05:02 PM

[Mockra]

Quote

The bald man i the coarse clothes waited for her at the cigarette machine. "Number D3," he said. She scowled. "What he fuck, are you clairvoyant or something?"
"Merely observing that you dismissed all lightly colored packages at once, and looked for a red one."
"Fucking hell, you a detective or something?"
"Observation is not tied to police work, but to inner rest."
"Yeah, sorry. Look, let me get those ciggies and we'll talk, I feel antsy without them."

Well the above quote clearly indicates some kind of conversation between the bald man and the smoking lady. So while I realize the bald can can't come out and say he's the bald man, it would indicate here that he knows who the smoking lady is.

[D'riss]

Omtose claims ruse isnt chinese and to be honest I find that a little hard to stomach from someone fingered as chinese earlier in the game, but given the edging toward Rashan or meanas, I do believe that meeting was of the syndicate and so I am willing to vote for Rashan or Meanas if people are certain they are the bald man and the man in white, though i must have missed how meanas became a possiblity for the man in white. Would he not be the girl in the car? I also do think the man playing chess comes across as syndicate.

remove vote

I am willing to give Ruse the benefit of the doubt without compelling evidence. I had hoped someone who had investigated may have verified Ruse's nationality but it seems we have no takers.

vote rashan

It does seem that your vote has been hijacked and for that reason alone you are a liability as we can never know where your vote will actually end up. Added to this, the scenes seem to imply you or meanas are the bald man and in my opinion that player is a member of the syndicate.

[Silanah]

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 04:51 PM, said:

Well I wasn't really a big fan of the Ruse case, but since my leads turned up empty, I'm wondering if it's at least vote worthy. But the smugness from Omtose who almost seems to relish being "in the open" with his nationality is bothering me.

I mean, isn't there at least some logic in saying, "Every Chinese player we lynch is more likely to be Syndicate?" since 2 are already dead?

Gah, it's too early to play factions!

What do you think, Sil?

edit: and the rest of you lurkers, too!

Omtose rather rubbed me the wrong way with that comment too. Considering we have an American down, and 2 (3?) Chinese down, I would think a more dangerous threat for non-Chinese would come from some of the other factions. So that's what I disagree with there.

Personally, I don't think much of the Ruse case though. If we are to believe Omtose (who could be lying, in which case he could be deflecting from Ruse [who I did point out had arguable common signals earlier], but anyway), then the entire case falls apart if I'm reading it correctly, since the vote is not predicated on being Syndicate, but Chinese Syndicate, which means Ruse is the smoking woman. Since the smoking woman produced Bargy, who also CF'd Chinese Syndicate, it's a logical assumption, and obviously we could vote for it to test D'riss' theory, but again, D'riss' reason for believing such is based on Day 1 posting and reaction to a Day 1 vote, so I can't help but think he might be wrong. Or he could have investigated him in the meantime (presuming he can) and found out something he can't reveal. Nevertheless, I guess I could vote for it if nothing else presents itself.

Sorry it took so long.

EDIT - derp derp, he dropped it

This post has been edited by Silanah: 25 May 2010 - 05:08 PM

[Galayn Lord]

Interesting d'riss, but having your vote hijacked doesn't seem like a reason to vote Someone. It probbaly means thier not.

[Olar Ethil]

Sorry, maybe I read over this part. How are we connecting Ruse to being Chinese. I must have missed that part. I say Omtose's odd denial of it, but I was to lazy to go back and look.


Also, @ Mockra. How was I wrong about the Barghy alt, iirc i made that post before PS clarified that the alt couldn't really do anything. He did infact turn out to be a puppet for the Syndicate. ( Ie a tool they used). Just defending my rightness here!!!

[Silanah]

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:00 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

@Olar, that's a good thought. How do you reconcile Rashan's mystery vote/remove vote business if he's scum?

Well, even if you are scum, you are subject to the whim of other people's actions. Say a Chinese had the ability to direct a vote ( I am just guessing here, they are the most closely tied to voting in their VC's)

if a spy had this ability, and used it on a scum, if that scum didn't have specific defenses against that ability, he might be forced to vote how the spy wanted him to.


It's a stretch, but if you guard a scum, he's still guarded. If you direct a scum to vote, I imagine he would still be forced to vote.

EDIT: added the word 'to" and an "m" to correct a spelling mistake.

Thing is though, Rashan's vote was directed off of Shadow. We don't know where it ended up (unless I missed it somehow), but I would hazard the only other target was Galain really, so what point would taking off one vote do (since we actually got about 2-3 more regardless)? And if Rashan is scum (or the person directing him is), then why would he take a vote off someone who is as far we know innocent?

EDIT - changed 'was' to 'is'. musn't mix up tenses

This post has been edited by Silanah: 25 May 2010 - 05:14 PM

[Mockra]

Font is all screwed up from the quotes, oh well.

Here's what we believe is the most obvious forced vote. "Old Man" forces "Bald Monkey" to vote.

Quote

The old man hissed a few syllables into the phone. "Remember your duty, you little runt! I am the one who tells you where and when to apply pressure, not you, you little bald monkey!"

Here looks like another 'forced' vote in the same day. The "Bureaucrat" (via his driver) is forcing "Man in the White Suit" to do "go here," which seems like a forced action to me, likely a vote.

Quote

The car stopped next to the man in the white suit. "He wants you to go here."
The other frowned. "He can ask me. Nicely."
"He could," the driver replied. "But he does not."
The other sniffed, then kicked a street lantern. This was not worth getting into a fight with the bureaucracy for."

So the Bald Man and the Man in the White Suit are Meanas and Rashan, in some order.

This is another action that I believe is a forced vote in the next day. The "caller" is probably the "Old Man" since he used a phone the previous day, too. The only clue about the "receiver" is he doesn't appear to like either "Technology" or "Techno" music, whatever the hell "Technomaniacs" indicates (probably technology). I don't know if it's the caller or the receiver on the toilet.

Quote

He called the other on the toilet, and the conversation was short, angry, and punctuated by the sound of water sprayed on porcelain, then a loud flush, followed by a short yelp as the toilet started to spray water as if it was a bidet. "Fucking technomaniacs," the receiver muttered, before giving in to the demand.

So if we assume Rashan was the man in the second scene, we (probably) know that either the bald man or the man in white doesn't like technology.

edit: The whole font looked blue and green, but now it looks normal except the last bit... aaarrggh

This post has been edited by Mockra: 25 May 2010 - 05:14 PM

[Silanah]

Galayn Lord, on 25 May 2010 - 05:09 PM, said:

Interesting d'riss, but having your vote hijacked doesn't seem like a reason to vote Someone. It probbaly means thier not.

I would agree with this. It's vote-worthy I would think, to force contribution and open up doors suspect-wise, but I don't think it's enough of a liability to demand a lynch.

[Mockra]

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

Sorry, maybe I read over this part. How are we connecting Ruse to being Chinese. I must have missed that part. I say Omtose's odd denial of it, but I was to lazy to go back and look.


Also, @ Mockra. How was I wrong about the Barghy alt, iirc i made that post before PS clarified that the alt couldn't really do anything. He did infact turn out to be a puppet for the Syndicate. ( Ie a tool they used). Just defending my rightness here!!!

I see what you're clarifying here, but for the record, I wasn't accusing you of lying. I just said it seemed like an incorrect assessment, in hindsight.

[Silanah]

@Mockra, regarding your Meanas case, did you notice the the hilarious contradiction in him saying to look at the high posters and then making a case on a lower poster than him? I thought it was funny.

EDIT - grammar fail. Must be tired.

This post has been edited by Silanah: 25 May 2010 - 05:19 PM

[Olar Ethil]

Silanah, on 25 May 2010 - 05:12 PM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:00 PM, said:

Mockra, on 25 May 2010 - 04:56 PM, said:

@Olar, that's a good thought. How do you reconcile Rashan's mystery vote/remove vote business if he's scum?

Well, even if you are scum, you are subject to the whim of other people's actions. Say a Chinese had the ability to direct a vote ( I am just guessing here, they are the most closely tied to voting in their VC's)

if a spy had this ability, and used it on a scum, if that scum didn't have specific defenses against that ability, he might be forced to vote how the spy wanted him to.


It's a stretch, but if you guard a scum, he's still guarded. If you direct a scum to vote, I imagine he would still be forced to vote.

EDIT: added the word 'to" and an "m" to correct a spelling mistake.

Thing is though, Rashan's vote was directed off of Shadow. We don't know where it ended up (unless I missed it somehow), but I would hazard the only other target was Galain really, so what point would taking off one vote do (since we actually got about 2-3 more regardless)? And if Rashan is scum (or the person directing him is), then why would he take a vote off someone who is as far we know innocent?

EDIT - changed 'was' to 'is'. musn't mix up tenses

Perhaps they knew shadow was innocent, or Chinese?? ( if it is a chinese action). He might have been protecting his team? I don't know. ya got me there.

[Silanah]

Olar Ethil, on 25 May 2010 - 05:11 PM, said:

Sorry, maybe I read over this part. How are we connecting Ruse to being Chinese. I must have missed that part. I say Omtose's odd denial of it, but I was to lazy to go back and look.

D'riss is thinking that Ruse might be Chinese because of some posts on Day 1 and his response to a vote on someone by D'riss (didn't clarify who).

[Mockra]

So here's the scene people are using to tie the bald man to the Syndicate:

Quote

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. “Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn’t, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here’s what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place.”
He sniffed, then shouted: “driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner.”

Now I am starting to see the real logic in this case. The "old man" is in the car with the "bald man." We already believe the "Old man" to be Syndicate. However, that would indicate that the "Old Man" forced his own agent's vote on Day 1 (possibly unforced it on Day 2, if the Bald man was the technology hater).

So now why do we think it's more likely that Rashan is the bald man than the man in the white suit?