[D'riss]

Concern for the results? I think you overstate the consequence of a single vote at the start of a day. Without people voting we can get no idea of were peoples suspicions lie and worse still it allows us to simply wait for any train that comes along and jump onto it. That applies to the spies more than the syndicate in my opinion as with a game this role intensive it encourages the more cautious style of play and a reliance on the result of our night/ day actions and the scenes to determine our actions and voting. We should be pressuring people, not worrying about maybe lynching a spy but worrying about lynching a spy in a rush at the end of day because we decided not voting early enough to discuss it. In case you missed it, this is what has happened in our two successful lynches.

[Silanah]

D, on 25 May 2010 - 10:01 AM, said:

Concern for the results? I think you overstate the consequence of a single vote at the start of a day. Without people voting we can get no idea of were peoples suspicions lie and worse still it allows us to simply wait for any train that comes along and jump onto it. That applies to the spies <i><u>more</u></i> than the syndicate in my opinion as with a game this role intensive it encourages the more cautious style of play and a reliance on the result of our night/ day actions and the scenes to determine our actions and voting. <b>We should be pressuring people, not worrying about maybe lynching a spy but worrying about lynching a spy in a rush at the end of day because we decided not voting early enough to discuss it</b>. In case you missed it, this is what has happened in our two successful lynches.

I cannot adequately explain how much I agree with this statement. The past few days people have sat around discussing scenes and noting suspicions, but never making cases on them, which is what we need if we're going to find the syndicate. If we lynch off a spy, it's not like it's the end of the world. It's unfortunate, mind you, but them's the breaks really. Look how much info we got out of the Korv lynch (and to a lesser extent so far the Shadow lynch). Since we don't know roles simply going off the NAs will give us jack shit in the long run (and who says they're all being posted anyway), not like the last game. So in that light, I'd like to see D'riss' case to gauge the merit behind it.

[Rashan]

I wouldn't say that it happened so much with the Shadow lynch. Plenty of discussion on Galain, but then people hopped on the Shadow lynch without adding anything. That wasn't a rush because people were voting late, but because no-one had anything to add and just wanted to get a lynch. Same thing could have happened at the start of day, imo.

(Yes, I'm back online briefly).

[Rashan]

On the other hand, I do agree with Silanah's post.

If that's what D'riss was saying, then yeah, I'm down with that.

[D'riss]

The basic's of the case are this (without quotes); I am under the belief that Ruse is chinese due in part to an early post and his reaction to the vote I made on day 1 accusing him of such. We know that Bargahst came back as Chinese syndicate therefore the smoking woman we seen on day 1 and day 2 is Chinese syndicate. We have already seen two chinese spies die and if the chinese started as five including the syndicate member then there is a one and three chance that Ruse is the smoking woman. This is compounded by the posts that liosan quoted which show Ruse being rather bloodthirsty and unhappy that people are not dropping like flies.

[Eloth]

Ok...im back.

Some really interesting stuff going on.

[D'riss]

Obviously my case hinges upon Ruse being Chinese and that is NOT based upon any type of find etc.

[Eloth]

D, on 25 May 2010 - 10:23 AM, said:

The basic's of the case are this (without quotes); I am under the belief that Ruse is chinese due in part to an early post and his reaction to the vote I made on day 1 accusing him of such. We know that Bargahst came back as Chinese syndicate therefore the smoking woman we seen on day 1 and day 2 is Chinese syndicate. We have already seen two chinese spies die and if the chinese started as five including the syndicate member then there is a one and three chance that Ruse is the smoking woman. This is compounded by the posts that liosan quoted which show Ruse being rather bloodthirsty and unhappy that people are not dropping like flies.

but does that make ruse scum?...


Im not to sure about your reasoning here...seems like you are jumping to allot of conclusions to get where you are.
But then again i am not following your reasoning very well im sure its all worked out allot better in you own noggin

[D'riss]

Given how easy it is to quote the scenes this is a lot quicker than a full on case on ruse to show why i think they are chinese. I think maybe two people have had some form of contact with our chinese syndicate agent and I am only guessing that Ruse is that player by my belief they are chinese. The scenes and the CF of the Barghast alt though are evidence enough for me that a member of the syndicate is working for the chinese and the death of both emurlahn and shadow show the chinese agents are working within the criminal underworld.

Path-Shaper, on 24 May 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

The last of the henchmen crumbled into a heap, taken from behind, knifed and silenced. She had had to employ her full arsenal of tricks, but now, she had evaded the clutches of the triade footmen. Time to go for their boss.

Barghast is dead. He was Triade Hired Hand, Chinese Syndicate.

She sat there, smoking, and waiting for the syndicate to appear with their hostage. She and her men had prepared a nice little ambush. Use thieves to catch thieves, a western proverb said. Assfuckers got something right, sometimes. She spun the barrel of her revolver, and when the SUV stopped, she ran out of cover, shooting. Her back-up never appeared, and while she downed four syndicate hirelings, she got shot in the stomach by a burst of rifle fire.


Shadow is dead, she was Ba Leng, a Chinese spy.

It is now night.

When i read this you see it looks like Barghast is a hireling of the early Day 1 / day 2 woman which makes them look like syndicate as barghast has a cf of chinese syndicate. Yet it also seems like shadow is that woman too. She is smoking and mentions 'her men'. Shadow was of course lynched, but the actual scene looks like a syndicate hit squad took them out so I can't tell if this is just creative licence.

day 1

Path-Shaper, on 19 May 2010 - 07:52 AM, said:

He walked through the city, trying to memorize his way through all the glass and concrete, and wondering how to go about his tasks. He rubbed his neck. The first thing to do, was find a cheap hotel, get some rest, it would be a long night. Then, he had to find the unassuming woman, who would be hiding amongst the criminal elements of the city. A daunting task.

day 2

Path-Shaper, on 19 May 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

She lit one cigarette with the stump of another, and had been doing that since breakfast. The local muscle had been bent carefully to her needs, and was now hers to command. It is good to have friends in high places... and dangerous. A nod sent one of them on his way. Expendable cannon fodder, and while the one he was to chase was not much to look at, neither was she, and look at how that played out. She blew three smoke circles. Fuck, another pack emptied.

emurlahn death

Giles, on 20 May 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

He walked into the shady, smoke filled den, ignoring all the customers at their gambling and drink, walking straight up to the tiny figure sitting in the back. "Nice shirt," she said, waving at the embroidered tiger on the collar. "You know why I am here."
You want to kill me?" she asked, spinning the chamber of a revolver. "Are you sure your dick is big enough to match this?"
Someone laughed to the left. In reply, he lashed out with his left hand, hitting a guy who sat there cleaning his nails with a dirty switchblade. Two of the guys fingers spun in a lazy arc, and mayhem started. In the end, only one man stood, flicking a few drops of blood from his collar.

Emurlahn is dead, she was Ba Leng, a Chinese Spy.

The similarities to the other two characters cannot be ignored (let alone the same name on the cf)

Quote

The bald man i the coarse clothes waited for her at the cigarette machine. "Number D3," he said. She scowled. "What he fuck, are you clairvoyant or something?"
"Merely observing that you dismissed all lightly colored packages at once, and looked for a red one."
"Fucking hell, you a detective or something?"
"Observation is not tied to police work, but to inner rest."
"Yeah, sorry. Look, let me get those ciggies and we'll talk, I feel antsy without them."

The red shows its a chinese person in my mind. I think the chinese all have a very similar character including the syndicate member of their team. The hinder character from day 1 ( I say hinder as they targetted two people but only had a night scene with one implying the second did nothing that night.) Also it is possible the bald man (seen both here and in the back of the car scene which also seemed like syndicate to me) was speaking to a chinese agent.

[Tellan]

Sil and D'riss, those are fair enough points and now that I know what your logic is, your vote seems pretty reasonable.

I do think you've maybe made one too many leaps of logic, but I get the direction that you are thinking.

At the moment I think the person most likely to be scum is whoever is ordering ordering Rashan to changes his votes. I know that's not exactly someone you can place a vote on at this point, but I'm going to have another look through the scenes and see if I can make any links.

[D'riss]

Path-Shaper, on 24 May 2010 - 08:46 PM, said:

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. "Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn't, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here's what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place."
He sniffed, then shouted: "driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner."

This strikes me as a syndicate meeting, implying at least three of them have become aware of each other.

[Eloth]

D, on 25 May 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 24 May 2010 - 08:46 PM, said:

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. "Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn't, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here's what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place."
He sniffed, then shouted: "driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner."

This strikes me as a syndicate meeting, implying at least three of them have become aware of each other.

hasnt there already been a Mercedes in another scene?

[D'riss]

Tellan, on 25 May 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

Sil and D'riss, those are fair enough points and now that I know what your logic is, your vote seems pretty reasonable.

I do think you've maybe made one too many leaps of logic, but I get the direction that you are thinking.

At the moment I think the person most likely to be scum is whoever is ordering ordering Rashan to changes his votes. I know that's not exactly someone you can place a vote on at this point, but I'm going to have another look through the scenes and see if I can make any links.

At the moment people are not taking risk's so it is very hard to judge well someones faction not to mention if they are scum or syndicate. I have held my opinion on Ruse since early day 1 and if I am wrong, I am wrong. Without putting a vote and a case though nothing would happen. I know it is a leap, but the players who targetted the smoking woman or even the bald man might now agree that they are possibly syndicate and come forward so I still think it is worthwhile. the old man int he back of the mercedes has also been present on multiple occassions and I think it was them that were ordering the votes in during one of the scenes.

[D'riss]

Eloth, on 25 May 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

D, on 25 May 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 24 May 2010 - 08:46 PM, said:

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. "Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn't, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here's what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place."
He sniffed, then shouted: "driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner."

This strikes me as a syndicate meeting, implying at least three of them have become aware of each other.

hasnt there already been a Mercedes in another scene?

Can you find a quote? I might see if I can find the quote regarding orders which I think was that old man calling in Rashan's vote on day 2.

[D'riss]

Quote

The old man hissed a few syllables into the phone. "Remember your duty, you little runt! I am the one who tells you where and when to apply pressure, not you, you little bald monkey!"

This looks alot like the old man in the mercedes ording the bald man to vote. If so that would mean that rashan or meanas (I think his vote was stolen on day 2) is the bald man and possibly syndicate.

[Rashan]

Well, before I head off, I can safely say that I'm not bald.

(note, not a reveal, just a denial of baldness)

[Eloth]

D, on 25 May 2010 - 10:56 AM, said:

Eloth, on 25 May 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

D, on 25 May 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 24 May 2010 - 08:46 PM, said:

The old man leaned back in the thick white leather of the backseat of the Mercedes, and looked sternly at the other two sharing the cabin with him, a bald man and a young woman with features as fine as porcelain. "Listen, you youngsters. You should be grateful that I have accepted responsibility for you and our mission. If I didn't, the two of you would probably be dead already. Now, here's what I want you to do. We will soon arrive in Kyoto. When you are there, you go to a simple hotel – and no sharing rooms! – check in, and you wait there for my call. No decadent foreign spy will search in such a place."
He sniffed, then shouted: "driver! Drop these two at the nearest busstop. They can find their way. Then to my hotel. Call my secretary and servant and tell them that I do not want to be disturbed until after dinner."

This strikes me as a syndicate meeting, implying at least three of them have become aware of each other.

hasnt there already been a Mercedes in another scene?

Can you find a quote? I might see if I can find the quote regarding orders which I think was that old man calling in Rashan's vote on day 2.

I think this is what i was thinking of

the "old man's" car

Giles, on 19 May 2010 - 07:42 PM, said:

Night 1


The man with the heavy eyebrows examined the car. An old model, armoured, with a diplomatic flag attached. Clearly the old buzzard left nothing to chance and would only go out when protected. Politicians… He switched a stiletto open, and cut all four tires, deeply. Bastards were incredibly hard to cut, but this would prevent the old man from going out tonight.

other than that there are a few cars but none merc...meh

[Tellan]

[quote name='Path-Shaper' date='19 May 2010 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1274296612' post='763022']
The man with the heavy eyebrows examined the car. An old model, armoured, with a diplomatic flag attached. Clearly the old buzzard left nothing to chance and would only go out when protected. Politicians… He switched a stiletto open, and cut all four tires, deeply. Bastards were incredibly hard to cut, but this would prevent the old man from going out tonight.
[/quote]

[quote name='Path-Shaper' date='19 May 2010 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1274301665' post='763075']

[quote name='Path-Shaper' date='19 May 2010 - 11:11 PM' timestamp='1274307108' post='763102']
She lit one cigarette with the stump of another, and had been doing that since breakfast. The local muscle had been bent carefully to her needs, and was now hers to command. It is good to have friends in high places... and dangerous. A nod sent one of them on his way. Expendable cannon fodder, and while the one he was to chase was not much to look at, neither was she, and look at how that played out. She blew three smoke circles. Fuck, another pack emptied.
[/quote]

[quote]The old man hissed a few syllables into the phone. "Remember your duty, you little runt! I am the one who tells you where and when to apply pressure, not you, you little bald monkey!"

~~

The car stopped next to the man in the white suit. "He wants you to go here."
The other frowned. "He can ask me. Nicely."
"He could," the driver replied. "But he does not."
The other sniffed, then kicked a street lantern. This was not worth getting into a fight with the bureaucracy for."
[/quote]

[quote]
"Don't just stand there!" she spat at the lackey. "Gather the men. We have to pay someone a visit." He ran. "But first," she said, "I need a cigarette."

A new alt joins the game: Barghast.
[/quote]

[quote] The bald man i the coarse clothes waited for her at the cigarette machine. "Number D3," he said. She scowled. "What he fuck, are you clairvoyant or something?"
"Merely observing that you dismissed all lightly colored packages at once, and looked for a red one."
"Fucking hell, you a detective or something?"
"Observation is not tied to police work, but to inner rest."
"Yeah, sorry. Look, let me get those ciggies and we'll talk, I feel antsy without them."
[/quote]

[quote] He called the other on the toilet, and the conversation was short, angry, and punctuated by the sound of water sprayed on porcelain, then a loud flush, followed by a short yelp as the toilet started to spray water as if it was a bidet. "Fucking technomaniacs," the receiver muttered, before giving in to the demand. [/quote]

Right, these are the people in the scenes that I think are most likely to be syndicate. I see Driss has covered some of them in his case against Ruse. I'm not sure if the scenes I've noted with blue concern the same person in the ones that I've highlighted in green. Both seem to involve orders and are most likely the ones linked with the vote changing mechanics. The woman who smokes a lot is obviously syndicate.

One person should know who the politician is - whoever has heavy eyebrows, and another is probably in a lover relationship with ciggie lady. Although that person is possibly syndicate by the tone of the scene. I'm not suggesting that either of them come out and reveal, but it's useful info to highlight none the less.

The bald dude is more than likely Rashan - I'm still undecided on whether or not he would be syndicate if mr green is - forcing your teammates to change votes would be very WIFOM with all the attention it gives them. I havent seen mention of someone being bald in any of the other scenes, so there's not much info to try tell either way.

[Path-Shaper]

Hmm, I think the demise of Barghast wasn't clear. For those who hadn't guessed, he died due to day timing out, any people in appearing in that scene were there because they were affected by Barghast. If that wasn't clear, apologies.

Also, as I think I stated before, you people read way too much in the scenes. Details like colors of a pack of cigarettes or clothes are usually directly tied to Appearance PMs, not a broadcast of nationality - that would be rather unfair since I like to keep things cryptic - and succeed. This isn't Spycraft 1, where the stories allowed soft finds and also broadcasted nationality. It is the main reason why you haven't seen dark-skinned people in this game, for example.

[Tellan]

What I do find fairly odd though is that both forced vote scenes seem to indicate that a man was forced into doing something, but the scenes that seem to indicate some sort of silencing indicate a woman was silenced. Now Mockra fits into both those categories, which obviously doesnt match up. Which makes me think that there's another scene that I'm not interpreting for what it is.