[Defiance]

So, caught something interesting in Treach's thoughts before he died. Page 231 of the US paperback, he's thinking about how "we tore a warren to pieces on that continent, turned the eastlands into molten stone that cooled and became something that defied sorcery." Okay, so sounds to me like he's talking about 7 Cities, given the whole eastlands molten stone bit (Otataral Island, I assumed), plus that's where the soletaken empire was located, as seen in DG. What I'm trying to figure out is which warren they tore to pieces - KE comes to mind, but that was undoubtedly someone else who did that. So, any ideas on which warren Treach is thinking about?

This post has been edited by Defiance: 28 April 2010 - 03:27 AM

[The Seguleh 46th]

Defiance, on 28 April 2010 - 03:23 AM, said:

So, caught something interesting in Treach's thoughts before he died. Page 231 of the US paperback, he's thinking about how "we tore a warren to pieces on that continent, turned the eastlands into molten stone that cooled and became something that defied sorcery." Okay, so sounds to me like he's talking about 7 Cities, given the whole eastlands molten stone bit (Otataral Island, I assumed), plus that's where the soletaken empire was located, as seen in DG. What I'm trying to figure out is which warren they tore to pieces - KE comes to mind, but that was undoubtedly someone else who did that. So, any ideas on which warren Treach is thinking about?

Not sure at all on which warren it may be, but i'm imagining it was the massive ritual undertaken by Dissembecklis (sp.?) to make all his subjects Soletaken/D'ivers that caused the destruction of the warren. Maybe the Beast Hold? The First Empire was still using Holds then weren't they (100,000-200,000 years has pasted since their time IIRC)? Maybe Treach is using modern terms such as Warrens to describe the past? I really have no idea, just throwing my 2 cents in here.....sigh....

BTW, were D'ivers a byproduct of people who didn't have the fortitude to handle the riutal? It's always described as a more insane/chaotic version of the Soletaken, yet more powerful in a sense (sometimes). Oh well......sorry to get off subject there.

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 28 April 2010 - 03:52 AM

[Defiance]

I'm not quite sure, but my understanding at this point is that D'ivers are very powerful beings who went insane during the ritual to become a Soletaken (insane, or perhaps the ritual actually failed). I'm not quite sure, but wasn't there one big gigantic ritual at the end of the First Empire, resulting in almost everyone within the confines of the Empire becoming a soletaken/D'ivers (which is why the T'lan Imass came to mop them up?). I'd assume that the ritual simply killed those without enough power to become a soletaken, and many that did have the power went insane and became D'ivers.

Anyway, this is from the section with Treach dying, on D'ivers:

"The final days - so long ago, now - had been chaotic. The ritual had been unravelled, unexpectedly, unpredictably. Madness gripped the Soletaken. Madness splintered the more powerful of his kin, broke on into many, the burgeoning of power wild, blood-hungry, birthing the D'ivers. The Empire was tearing itself apart."

[lobo the wolfman]

The warren that they destroyed in the First Empire for the ritual was

Spoiler

a part of the already sundered KE

I will not go into more detail here but it comes clearer in the nest book Hoc.

[The Seguleh 46th]

lobo the wolfman, on 28 April 2010 - 05:28 AM, said:

The warren that they destroyed in the First Empire for the ritual was

Spoiler

a part of the already sundered KE

I will not go into more detail here but it comes clearer in the nest book Hoc.

Spoiler

Man, that warren gets no love whatsoever! Lol! As an aside, i've always wondered why that one, and none of the others? Is it because its relatively young? Maybe it being a "bastard" of sorts, the power does not reach as far, or rather, is simply not as influential? Or possibly the complete opposite?! Maybe that's its entire purpose....i.e, to break up in fragments and be used more fully in the very long scheme of events, since Shadow is the ultimate deciever of sorts. Huh!? Or none of the above! Sigh.....craziness!

[Abyss]

There is so much RAFO to later books to this question, but restricting myself to books up to MoI...

There were a bunch of hints in DG when Heboric, Kulp and Felisin stumbled into those First Empire ruins - the First Empire set up a ritual that was supposed to cause the entire Empire to ascend, apparently as shapeshifters. It all went utterly wrong, leading some/many of the citizens to become soletaken, fewer to become d'ivers, and then the T'lan I'mass to step in and start killing.

We get the sense that d'ivers was an unexpected side effect, tho' not completely unknown. In DG we saw soletaken go up against d'ivers (iirc, Messremb attacking Gryllen, reference to a rivarly between Treach and Ryllandaras), so it's not an automatic superiority thing, tho i suppose in general an 'average' d'ivers is more powerful than an 'average' soletaken.

A chunk of KE certainly seems likely, but there are all kinds of warrens, so it could have been something else altogether. That Dessimbelackis was a clever dude.

[Defiance]

Well, I'm rereading the series, so spoil away. I've read everything Malazan except RotCG and the most recent novella. The problem with what I remember comes from a year long gap or so between reading the first three and the rest, I forgot so much stuff.

[haroos]

Defiance, on 28 April 2010 - 03:23 AM, said:

So, caught something interesting in Treach's thoughts before he died. Page 231 of the US paperback, he's thinking about how "we tore a warren to pieces on that continent, turned the eastlands into molten stone that cooled and became something that defied sorcery." Okay, so sounds to me like he's talking about 7 Cities, given the whole eastlands molten stone bit (Otataral Island, I assumed), plus that's where the soletaken empire was located, as seen in DG. What I'm trying to figure out is which warren they tore to pieces - KE comes to mind, but that was undoubtedly someone else who did that. So, any ideas on which warren Treach is thinking about?

if you think about it, in DG the soletakens race to ascend, but actualy trake does it by means of k'rul.
makes me think that the race was real, but rigged by shadowthrone to ensure that trake will become the god of war.

Spoiler

what does it mean about ryllandares who died in RTCG ?
will he ascend too ? (also a first hero and a brother of trake)

This post has been edited by haroos: 21 May 2010 - 10:57 PM

[worry]

you could always delete it...

but the spoiler tags are [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] minus the spaces i think.