[HoosierDaddy]

It's impossible to say he does at this point, as he hasn't stated so. I'm not arguing he feels remorse after destroying his own empire to spite the Elder Gods, or for dashing his babies heads against walls right after birth (or however he kills them). Thus, for not doing so at this point I'd characterize him as "prone to evil/evil." It was an interconnected arguments from multiple posts.

[gibbons]

doesn't this come back to Kallor just being insane and paranoid?
but assuming that kallor is what we should call evil in this series, I believe Raest is more evil than Kallor is, simply because I got the impression that Kallor only does what he sees as necessary. Of course being extremely paranoid and insane means that alot of what he sees as necessary is just downright cruel... but then we see him doing things such as trying to kill silverfox for the good of humanity? and I got the impression that Rake didn't want kallor nearby when he fought traveler because kallor may well end up trying to help rake (of course he would take dragnipur if rake was already dead, but lets face it who wouldnt?)
sorry that was slightly long winded... xD

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

Rake didn't want Kallor nearby because Kallor was going to try for a throne to claim, so Spinnock denied it. Party over, away he goes.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Hellian, on 13 July 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

Rake didn't want Kallor nearby because Kallor was going to try for a throne to claim, so Spinnock denied it. Party over, away he goes.

No that can't be it. Spinnock and Rake both knew that he could only hope to delay Kallor. Spinnock and Kallor actually talk about it at the end of the duel. Nobody was moving a throne out of the city during the night, Kallor could still claim it if he wanted the next day. Rake wanted to keep Kallor out of the Dragnipur convergence and the Toll because he didn't want him to get the sword and ruin his plan.

[random marine doomed to die]

Not touching the 'what is evil' question that this has evolved into.
How about the guy who killed an entire royal line, had something to do with (started?) the shattering of a warren, stabs his co-leader/general in the back after winning the war and has all his allies killed by his followers? Scabby good old Bloodeye
yeah yeah he is dead I know 'cause dead is dead right

This post has been edited by random marine doomed to die: 13 July 2010 - 09:47 PM

[Abyss]

One character who gets no shades of grey is the trohl'baral Dejim from TB. His stated purpose is to eat people, power up and make more shadow bodies so as to better eat people, power up and make more bodies.

Now someone's going to chime in with 'but he's a predator and that's what they do so that's not evil'!. Not so, says I. Since Dej is both sentient and capable of recognizing other sentients, his decision to actively eat them leads down the path only to evil.

- Abyss, needs a coffee or will go down the path only to evil.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

But then one could say that he's affected by the madness that all shapeshifters seem to have. What's the difference between him and, say, Gryllen, who just hangs around in 7C so that he can eat travelers,become more powerful, and have more rat bodies?

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 16 July 2010 - 09:30 AM

[Aptorian]

Abyss, on 15 July 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

One character who gets no shades of grey is the trohl'baral Dejim from TB. His stated purpose is to eat people, power up and make more shadow bodies so as to better eat people, power up and make more bodies.

Now someone's going to chime in with 'but he's a predator and that's what they do so that's not evil'!. Not so, says I. Since Dej is both sentient and capable of recognizing other sentients, his decision to actively eat them leads down the path only to evil.

- Abyss, needs a coffee or will go down the path only to evil.

I don't think that one works. I recognise that the animals I eat are sentient, they feel pain, they have memory, etc. but that doesn't stop me from eating them. My society tells me that this is not evil because the human civilisation is the master race so its okay for me to eat them. Food chain and all that.

Similarly Dejim is a superior creature. To him human beings are just cattle. He'll eat them because they are his prey. He's not a vegetarian demon D'ivers.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Aptorian, on 16 July 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:

Abyss, on 15 July 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

One character who gets no shades of grey is the trohl'baral Dejim from TB. His stated purpose is to eat people, power up and make more shadow bodies so as to better eat people, power up and make more bodies.

Now someone's going to chime in with 'but he's a predator and that's what they do so that's not evil'!. Not so, says I. Since Dej is both sentient and capable of recognizing other sentients, his decision to actively eat them leads down the path only to evil.

- Abyss, needs a coffee or will go down the path only to evil.

I don't think that one works. I recognise that the animals I eat are sentient, they feel pain, they have memory, etc. but that doesn't stop me from eating them. My society tells me that this is not evil because the human civilisation is the master race so its okay for me to eat them. Food chain and all that.

Similarly Dejim is a superior creature. To him human beings are just cattle. He'll eat them because they are his prey. He's not a vegetarian demon D'ivers.

Presumable though, you eat animals for sustenance so that you can survive. Dejim goes far beyond that and kills and eats as many as possible so that he can become even more powerful, in order to enable him to be a better killer. No other purpose that we know of. I think Abyss was stating that Dejim existed only to be a predator. Now whether or not you want to explain this away as a biological imperative, or inherently evil dna is different. But I don't think anyone anywhere takes the side of Dejim. He is kind of like a microcosm of Pannion Domin, killing people to conquer lands so they could conquer more lands and kill the people within them.

[Aptorian]

I eat hundreds of little shrimp at a time, as a dessert some times. I'm not even hungry when I eat them, they just taste so damn delicious. Hundreds of little lives consumed for my pleasure. Hell, if that isn't evil, killing life just for pleasure, I don't know what is.

To Dejim life is just food. Walking vessels of the nourishing blood that he needs. Dejim eating a whole village so that he can multiply is no more evil than trawling for fish. There's more where those humans came from.

EDIT: Now if Dejim was killing and eating people, not for food, but for fun. Inflicting pain and wiping out whole villages, just to see the human beings suffer. As a game. Then you could consider him evil.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 16 July 2010 - 10:05 PM

[D'rek]

Dejim did have a higher purpose. Somewhere in the book he thinks about how he will consume enough that he will be unstoppable and then he will become a dictator over the survivors, living under his laws. I can't recall exactly but I think there's a bit in there about him noting slave-traders and how its abominable and under his justice those flesh traders will suffer the most.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I particularly like how Kallor is not automatically thought of as evil. He's just done so many terrible things that he seems to just...exist.

Korbolo Dom could be seen as evil. But he's more psychopath than Big Bad.

[Braden]

….so, where's the "Badass of the series" list then?



I will now take the opportunity to use "lol" in this sentence as I am evil, of course.



And now I'll change to….



…Comic Sans text to just emphasis the point…oh! Muhahahahahaha!



(Enough of that) Even our hero's commit "evil" acts at some point and by some point of view. Shall we just consider that Kallor is perhaps THE main candidate as "Evilest" creature in the series so far but I'd certainly say he's not the Badass of the Series!!



Guys a big soft girl to be honest…evil, yeah, why not…but I'd kick his butt.

This post has been edited by Braden: 19 July 2010 - 03:50 PM

[haroos]

Abyss, on 15 July 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

One character who gets no shades of grey is the trohl'baral Dejim from TB. His stated purpose is to eat people, power up and make more shadow bodies so as to better eat people, power up and make more bodies.

Now someone's going to chime in with 'but he's a predator and that's what they do so that's not evil'!. Not so, says I. Since Dej is both sentient and capable of recognizing other sentients, his decision to actively eat them leads down the path only to evil.

- Abyss, needs a coffee or will go down the path only to evil.

he did feel pity towards some of his victims, but excused their kill as necessary.

[Testluv]

Quote

So if Gorlas does something cruel, like killing a crippled man or cheating a dying one out of his money, it is not evil. It is good for the only person who matter, Gorlas himself.

Apt,

Gorlas is a pedophile. I think he also kills the kids after using them. That's evil in my books.

Another evil being who I don't think has been mentioned yet is Snell, the kid who tries to kill Harllo. Although he's just a kid who lacks any special powers, SE shows us his mind, and he is about as evil as one can get.