[D'riss]

Gamelon, on 22 April 2010 - 08:54 AM, said:

D, on 22 April 2010 - 08:51 AM, said:

Until then, I'm going through the Omtose bandwagon and votes on him. Because like I said before, it makes a perfect place for a scum to hide, vote-wise ; since by that time the case seemed so bulletproof that people can make such obvious claims like 'It seemed like the best available option at that time'.

But it was the best option at the time...wasnt it?

Exactly. This is what scum will actually CLAIM.

But as far as I am concerned, by yesterday night, and the time table- for me it was the ONLY option.
It was either that, OR risk another day without a CF.

[Hood's Path]

Ok, this quote got me thinking:

Quote

The weird thing is though that Omtose appeared to be the symp signalling with his Sorrit vote, not a killer.

Spite has been the party that has become ignored in all this and was part of the signalling issue.

He came on and made a post damning Kesso, but didn't vote for him.

Spite, on 21 April 2010 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well that was pretty crazy. So I think I have it straight,

Kesso then makes a mistake posting a spoiler post to the thread which is apparently game breaking. There's no possible way that can be an inno can make a game breaking spoiler post on Day 2. I'm not even sure an inno could make a game breaking post in a game of Mafia unless the Mod gave them extra info and that doesn't appear to be the case.
So therefore Kesso must be scum of some sort, since it wasn't one of the two names given as scum I presume a symp.

I agree with the others, I think we have to lynch Omtose and see his CF. Kesso definitly was deflecting away from Omtose before he made his slip, and according to Sorrit at least the missing post was him try to cover for Omtose in some way.

Someone else brought it up, but I'd like to as well as I'd like to to emphasis it. D'riss, what the hell are you doing? All this is happening and your coming up some sort of weird statistical analysis. I would like to know your thoughts on the Omtose/Sorrit/Kesso thing if you wouldn't mind. You managed several large posts but managed to avoid talking about it completely. What gives??

The order of votes in the final count is wrong btw, Spite was near the end - far enough so, the vote is on what had become a foregone conclusion. It looked like he avoided the vote originally.


And now he's coming on to push Karatallid for, in relative terms, flimsy reasons. It seems more like he's coming out on day 3 with something to say, so no one can accuse him of not contributing - something Galain and I have already brought up.

This is not to say I'm ignoring the other end of this Kesso issue, Sorrit, but we have a lot more Sorrit posting on thread than Spite. So I'll copy his "pushing" of a player and

Vote Spite

[Spite]

Several things there Hoods Path.

I suspect I wasn't mentioned much because Kesso who was the scum said to vote Spite and deflected off Omtose onto me, so I wasn't part of the mess as much as I was on the receiving end of it. Go take a look at what Kesso was saying, it was something like, Spite or no one. If i'm scum I can't think of a single reason why another scum would want to do that.

Second, I said I was going to vote Omtose and I thought I made my intentions clear, but as I said in another post, I wanted to wait till Omtose actually came on and heard what he had to say. We had lots of time at that point and there was not point in speed lynching Omtose as he might have useful infomation. I did actually intend to write that in my original post, but I was busy at work at the time and it just slipped my mind.
Also please note Omtose appears to be either innocent, or at the very worst a symp. Why the hell wouldn't I vote on that if I was scum? Cos its just so much better to fiddle around and make myself suspicious?
If Omtose was scum then sure you have a valid point but he isn't.

Thirdly, I am not suggesting a lynch of Karatallid, but we have 3 people who have't posted for a couple days and Karatallid has been popping in and out and not contributing. Thats about 1/4 of the current players not posting. If any of them are scum we are in serious trouble. I picked Karatallid since he has been on and off and I want him to post more and give his thoughts. We aren't going to find scum if they just post a "checking in and catching up" and then heading off again. Or are you happy to let people continue in that vain?

[Gamelon]

Hood, on 22 April 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ok, this quote got me thinking:

Quote

The weird thing is though that Omtose appeared to be the symp signalling with his Sorrit vote, not a killer.

pet peeve of mine...

when you quote someone could you at least put in where/who the quote is from!
Its rather bad form to quote something out of context and then not give us any way of knowing who posted it and in what context it was said.

this quote means absolutely nothing to me now!

[Hood's Path]

Point taken.

Remove vote.

Although this was unnecessary

Quote

Or are you happy to let people continue in that vain?

[Hood's Path]

Gamelon, on 22 April 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

Hood, on 22 April 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ok, this quote got me thinking:

Quote

The weird thing is though that Omtose appeared to be the symp signalling with his Sorrit vote, not a killer.

pet peeve of mine...

when you quote someone could you at least put in where/who the quote is from!
Its rather bad form to quote something out of context and then not give us any way of knowing who posted it and in what context it was said.

this quote means absolutely nothing to me now!

Sorry. I've never figured out how to multi-quote when the posts are on different pages.


edit: not to mention the point was the point, not who said it

This post has been edited by Hood's Path: 22 April 2010 - 10:54 AM

[Gamelon]

Hood, on 22 April 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 22 April 2010 - 10:49 AM, said:

Hood, on 22 April 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ok, this quote got me thinking:

Quote

The weird thing is though that Omtose appeared to be the symp signalling with his Sorrit vote, not a killer.

pet peeve of mine...

when you quote someone could you at least put in where/who the quote is from!
Its rather bad form to quote something out of context and then not give us any way of knowing who posted it and in what context it was said.

this quote means absolutely nothing to me now!

Sorry. I've never figured out how to multi-quote when the posts are on different pages.


edit: not to mention the point was the point, not who said it

ofcourse who said it matters!! jees


different pages multi quote is easy
just copy the entire post dont clcik the post buttong then go to the next page and start multi quoting again...and you just paste in the previous pages quotes before the next pages once your ready to click add reply.

[Alkend]

i'm back and catching up

[Alkend]

place seems to be dead again...

since I've missed the entirety of Kesso's big post debacle, I feel inclined to look elsewhere for ways of finding scum, since all the info about that is reserved to a few players.

[Spite]

Hood, on 22 April 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

Point taken.

Remove vote.

Although this was unnecessary

Quote

Or are you happy to let people continue in that vain?

Sorry there HP! Its just a little annoying that so many players are giving us nothing, its making it mucher harder to get info. If it was one person its not such a problem, but 4 is a right pain. We need to get more than just a checking in post, its getting close to the end of Day 3 now.

[D'riss]

Well, I noticed something else, it might not be much, but perhaps its something? I don't really know.

Korbas sudjests that symps might know of one master.
Alkend throws a 'curveball' saying symps might be linked but know of one master.
Korbas again mentions something about this theory.


So, I went back the OP opening scene:

Quote

Liu Bei read the imperial edict through his tears. He could not sleep that night and in the morning returned to the library to reread the document. But no concrete plan occurred to him. Finally he fell asleep against his desk pondering the means to get rid of Cao Cao.

The courtier Jian Yong arrived, intending to discuss with Liu Bei the most recent news of Yuan Shu's defeat in Zhong by Liu Yao. Recognizing his master's intimate friend, the gateman did not stop him, and he straight into the library. Jian Yong saw Liu Bei dozing at his desk, a silk scroll under his sleeve. The imperial "we" was barely visible on it. Becoming curious, Jian Yong quietly took up the document. After reading it, he stowed it in his own sleeve. "Imperial Uncle Liu," he cried, "are you not ashamed? How carefree to be sleeping so!" Liu Bei came to immediately. Missing the decree, he felt his senses swim and his limbs fail. "You plan to murder Yuan Shao, then?" Yong demanded. "I shall have to denounce you." "Brother," Liu Bei wept, "if that is your intention, the house of Han expires."

"I was simply playing a part," Jian Yong reassured Liu Bei. "Our clan has enjoyed the fruits of service to the Han for many generations. Far from failing in loyalty, I mean to lend my all to the task of destroying the traitor." "The dynasty is fortunate indeed if you are so minded," Liu Bei responded. "Let us retire, then," Jian Yong suggested, "and draw up a loyalist pledge to do our duty to the Emperor whatever the risk to ourselves and our clans."

In great excitement Liu Bei fetched a length of white silk and wrote his name at the head. Jian Yong added his, and suggested his trusted friend General ______ would surely be willing to make cause with them. Liu Bei also proposed his trusted friends Commandant _______ and Counselor _______. At the moment a servant announced all three officials had arrived in quick succession. "Thus Heavan aids us!" Liu Bei exclaimed and sent for the three. Each eagerly added his own name to the pledge.

So, Jian Yong reads about the plot, confronts Liu Bei, and agrees to help him.

Trying to recruit more conspirators, Jian Yong adds his trusted General friend
Liu Bei adds his trusted Commandant and Counselor

(So far we see that it appears as if Iian Yong has one symp and Liu Bei has two symps, no indication if the symps know each other)

After that, the three grentlemen (or women) arrive in the scene and add their names on the paper personally.

(That though says that the five conspirators met in person, so they do know each other)


So, from the opening scene, I understand that all scum know each other, prior to the games begining, so all symps know all masters and all the other symps as well.


Am I correct in this?
If yes, then we must be looking for trails of TWO individual people trying to deflect of someone

[Spite]

Hmm interesting D'riss, to be honest I'm not sure. I don't know how much exactly we can read into the scenes and OP. Normally they're just to tie the game together, I haven't been playing in this series of games of D'reks until now so I don't know how much she puts into the scenes.

At this point, my thoughts are just 2 killers and 3 symps with a standard setup, it was promised as a standard meat and potatos game, so thats what I'd go with until we see evidence otherwise. If the scenes are meant to have more meaning then we should look into it more.

[Gamelon]

i dont think the scenes can be taken at such face value D'riss.

Also then your saying that all the masters should know their symps too?

[Korbas]

Gamelon, on 22 April 2010 - 08:17 AM, said:

Korbas, on 22 April 2010 - 01:37 AM, said:

Right. I've been thinking a lot about this -partially because it's a lot more interesting than my books- as it has been bugging me a great deal. I think we all agree that Kessobahn most probably was a symp for him to be able to make a game breaking pm-in-thread post. In that regard neither Sorrit's, nor my own memory of his post really makes sense. Omtose turned up innocent after all.

Now, Kessobahn said that I was probably symping either Omtose or Sorrit. The key here is that he was posting a pm to PS, not a post for the thread. As a regular symp such thoughts makes no sense as he would know whether Omtose or Sorrit was a scum. However, in the past we've had games with multiple symps where none of them know of more than one killer. If Kessobahn was a symp but had information of only one killer, such speculation as we saw makes sense.

Indeed, if I'm right PB's mistake might actually have benefited the scum a great deal.

The only problem I see with this theory is that I cannot for the life of me figure out what in the post was so game breaking.

Korbas, on 22 April 2010 - 04:09 AM, said:

No opinions on my theory?

screw you guys. I'm going to bed.

your theory sounds very plausible, especially with the two different scum "factions".

But the simple answer would be that kessoh, not knowing his other master.
Was deducing who this master could be via the actions of his known master.

Since he mentioned omtose and sorrit. Its fair to say that perhaps he felt one or the other was perhaps his other master?

Amyways this is all pure conjecture really.

I think you misunderstood my point somewhat. Kessobahn might simply have looked for the other killer and symps the way we do and found my actions in regards to Omtose and Sorrit suspicious. At least that makes sense as far as I can see.

[Tulas Shorn]

Gamelon, on 22 April 2010 - 02:34 PM, said:

i dont think the scenes can be taken at such face value D'riss.

Also then your saying that all the masters should know their symps too?

Right and then that would be totally over power for the scum. It does seem to suggest that the masters could know their symps though.

[Korbas]

We had a game where that was the case (Mocker and Grief with Morgoth and JA as the symps) and it was so absurdly overpowered it never happened again. I doubt D'rek would've done something like that.

[Gamelon]

Korbas, on 22 April 2010 - 02:37 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 22 April 2010 - 08:17 AM, said:

Korbas, on 22 April 2010 - 01:37 AM, said:

Right. I've been thinking a lot about this -partially because it's a lot more interesting than my books- as it has been bugging me a great deal. I think we all agree that Kessobahn most probably was a symp for him to be able to make a game breaking pm-in-thread post. In that regard neither Sorrit's, nor my own memory of his post really makes sense. Omtose turned up innocent after all.

Now, Kessobahn said that I was probably symping either Omtose or Sorrit. The key here is that he was posting a pm to PS, not a post for the thread. As a regular symp such thoughts makes no sense as he would know whether Omtose or Sorrit was a scum. However, in the past we've had games with multiple symps where none of them know of more than one killer. If Kessobahn was a symp but had information of only one killer, such speculation as we saw makes sense.

Indeed, if I'm right PB's mistake might actually have benefited the scum a great deal.

The only problem I see with this theory is that I cannot for the life of me figure out what in the post was so game breaking.

Korbas, on 22 April 2010 - 04:09 AM, said:

No opinions on my theory?

screw you guys. I'm going to bed.

your theory sounds very plausible, especially with the two different scum "factions".

But the simple answer would be that kessoh, not knowing his other master.
Was deducing who this master could be via the actions of his known master.

Since he mentioned omtose and sorrit. Its fair to say that perhaps he felt one or the other was perhaps his other master?

Amyways this is all pure conjecture really.

I think you misunderstood my point somewhat. Kessobahn might simply have looked for the other killer and symps the way we do and found my actions in regards to Omtose and Sorrit suspicious. At least that makes sense as far as I can see.

i was refereing to your question about what could be "game breaking"
He was perhaps talking about his master and possible partners...I get your theory and think its very plausible.

[Hood's Path]

And maybe the scum leaders are given the information about who the inno power roles are. And maybe they have unlimited lynch BPs. Maybe they're IMMORTAL AND THE GAME IS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION!

[Korbas]

They're predators

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 4 hours and 41 minutes remaining
17 Players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Karosis, Kaschan, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Sorrit, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Tulas Shorn

9 votes to lynch, 9 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Karatallid ( Spite )
1 Vote for Sorrit ( Tulas Shorn )

Players not voted: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Karosis, Kaschan, Korbas, Korvalain, Liosan, Sorrit, Sukul Ankhadu

---

Good morning. I only see 3 vote-related actions in the last page, so I believe the counts are correct.

-pb