[Powder]

I was wondering what you all would think of an article/blog/w/e like this one:http://www.esquire.com/features/best-and-brightest-2009/shane-claiborne-1209

He is from the city closest to my home, Philadelphia, and I feel as though he accurately portrays some of the internal dynamics of people of faith.

-Powder

[Terez]

Well, he's still selling religion, isn't he? Most of us who are non-religious just aren't interested. And yes, I applaud him for recognizing the fact that Christians are to blame for driving most of us away from Christianity, but the simple fact is that once we lose our faith, we're just not interested any more. If people like him can actually succeed in getting through to other Christians about how they should act, in the spirit of attracting people to the faith, then there may be hope for future generations, but apologists have never been all that successful at recruiting the heathens to the fold, and unfortunately for his message, the vast majority of vocal Christians are still doing their best to drive us away.

[Jusentantaka]

Actually been talking about this a fair bit since I saw the Jesus vs. Jeeezus picture a couple weeks back, and to me, that is more of the issue than people not being interested. (which has been the prevailing sentiment of other ex-Christians I've talked to) Jesus is all about love and tolerance, acceptance and forgiveness, sure, but the kindest thing the Jeeezus has for me is a needle in my arm.

And frankly, Jeeezus has been stealing Christianity from Jesus all my life, and I'm really not sure I believe that the violent, xenophobic and hateful 'christians' are just a fringe minority anymore.

This post has been edited by Jusentantaka: 15 April 2010 - 10:37 PM

[Powder]

 Jusentantaka, on 15 April 2010 - 10:29 PM, said:

Actually been talking about this a fair bit since I saw the Jesus vs. Jeeezus picture a couple weeks back, and to me, that is more of the issue than people not being interested. (which has been the prevailing sentiment of other ex-Christians I've talked to) Jesus is all about love and tolerance, acceptance and forgiveness, sure, but the kindest thing the Jeeezus has for me is a needle in my arm.

And frankly, Jeeezus has been stealing Christianity from Jesus all my life, and I'm really not sure I believe that the violent, xenophobic and hateful 'christians' are just a fringe minority anymore.

Who or what is Jeeezus?

-Powder

[Illuyankas]

Click the link in her post.

[Powder]

That was a pretty neat link. How common is this experience amongst my fellow forumites?

-Powder

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Pretty common. I live in a liberal town (Berkeley), and even more destructive than the actual Jeezus proponents are the people that assume they're all Jeezus-ites.

But, to be honest, the hordes of peppy aggressive Christians on campus scare the shit out of me. They're like the Borg- you will be assimilated.

EDIT: Well, maybe not scare, but kinda creepy. The crazy christians are easier to deal with than the sane ones, by virtue of easy dismissal. The Jesus-groupies are hard to ignore, they're like Christ's own cheerleaders.

EDITEDIT: IDK what the hell I'm talking about here, I blame booze and brood.

This post has been edited by Adjutant Stormy: 20 April 2010 - 08:11 PM

[Powder]

Like Christ's own cheerleaders? How do you mean? And what stops you from instantly dismissing them as you do the crazy Christian Borg?

-Powder

[Adjutant Stormy~]

In my defense I most definitely typed that response drunk. UGH.

I'm retracting that until I can figure out what that means...

[Bent]

As a christian, I am gonna probably step on some toes on my way out the door, but well, that's honesty for ya....

My opinion - I dont much care for the blog. I get tired of having to be the apologetic one.

I'm sorry that my beliefs and way of life make you see me as an idiot.

I'm sorry that you were trod upon and pushed away from having true faith by those who claim to be like me, yet judge me for my actions in the same manner they judged you.

I'm sorry that you sometimes seem to despise me because I made a choice to believe in something that you view as a childish fantasy.


Bullshit. (Begin stepping on toes - now)

It is a proud thing to believe in a God that loves and holds you close to Him. I'm not sorry that my faith guides the choices that I make. I am not sorry that I lose nothing by believing in a higher authority, and gain much. I wont be apologetic. I wont ask you to forgive me because I have done nothing to you. I would ask that you forgive the idiots that pushed you away, but I cant change how they treated you, and I cant change how YOU feel towards them.

I don't judge you. We share the same tastes in music, art (mostly, Jesus made out of poo is shit, not art), books, hobbies, and even choice of alcohol.

I don't pity you either. I am sad that you wont ever know Gods love, not fully, but I wont pity you. If you can live with your choice to abstain from Gods grace, then so can I.

I don't hate you. In fact, I love each and every one of you. Seriously, we laugh and cry together, a million miles apart. And no matter how mad I get at you, or you at me, I know we are just a dysfunctional family, trying to make it through the day.

So I see no reason to apologize. Not for myself, and not for my God. If you feel I have wronged you. Tough. You should know by now, I wont change. And hopefully you know I never meant you any harm.

Anyway, I believe if every christian held the same stance, then we would be seen in a different light. I wont justify all of the bad who share my faith. But I wont hesitate to point out the all of the good.

[/rant]

Thanks for listening.

[Tapper]

Well, that's pretty cool, Bent
I admire that, and don't think you stepped on any toes here. You don't judge, pity or hate me for being an unbeliever by choice.

Now, if every believer was like that, no-one would be opposed to religion. Sadly, not every believer (regardless of faith) takes that stance.

[Terez]

I'm wondering if he even read it. Bent's post is not really consistent with itself.

[Tapper]

 Terez, on 20 April 2010 - 09:19 PM, said:

I'm wondering if he even read it. Bent's post is not really consistent with itself.

The man plays mafia. It's practice, nay, art, to be inconsistent.
And anyway, I personally like what he has to say, especially the second part

[rhulad]

@Bent,

I've never apologized to anyone for being an atheist, and would never ask someone to apologize to me for believing in god, or being religious (no matter what denomination). The only problem I have with some religious people is that they try to push their beliefs onto others while dismissing said others beliefs as invalid. If like you said every christian held the same stance as you then I agree that Christianity would be seen in a different light.

[Cold Iron]

Is this really an issue? Really? A whole nation of people concerned with the tiny number of numbskulls who try to use religion to justify their bigotry?

Have you all become that blind to the constant bombardment of advertising? Sensationalism only sells if you get outraged! Tune out, don't watch the shit. Find a news source that doesn't waste your time telling you about these idiots. Trust me, you don't need to worry about them. You don't need to worry about anything commercial media tells you, their job is to attract your attention and hold it. They use your fears and desires.

[Terez]

 Cold Iron, on 11 May 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

Is this really an issue? Really? A whole nation of people concerned with the tiny number of numbskulls who try to use religion to justify their bigotry?

It's mostly an issue because that 'small number' of people are allied with the 'fiscal conservatives' in politics, which means that their interests are represented in the Republican Party, which often wins elections. If it was realistic to just ignore them, then we wouldn't have a problem doing so, but it is not realistic at all.

[worry]

It's not a small number. They make up a sizable (and reliably universal far far faaaaar right) voting bloc.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Megachurch "A megachurch is a church having around 2,000 or more attendants for a typical weekly service. The Hartford Institute's database lists more than 1,300 such Protestant churches in the United States. According to these data, about 50 churches on the list have attendance ranging from 10,000 to 47,000."

[Terez]

Most studies I've seen put the fundies at about 30% of the population. The remaining 20% or so that makes up the Republican party is fairly conservative too...just more likely to bend on an occasional issue like abortion or gay marriage.

[Cold Iron]

Then your problem is education, not religion.

[Powder]

 Cold Iron, on 15 June 2010 - 03:19 AM, said:

Then your problem is education, not religion.

Perhaps (un)educated religion? Just because you have a doctorate in religious studies does not mean that you are educated on the subject btw. Getting a doctorate from say Pensecola or Bob Jones does not mean you are educated, more than in secular circles where you study religion greatly impacts how educated you are.

-Powder