[SilenceYourTongueAndWitness]

Okay, So this may have been covered by a previous thread but out of the malazan army how many of the mages scattered between the 14th would be considered high mages if they were not hiding among the ranks, I'm basing high mage status off of raw power and the ability to use one's power. Thus far every "unimportant" mage thats been plucked up has had some sort of power no one knew about (Beak having access to EVERY warren) the only mage i can think of that isnt worth the title is a mage from one of the first couple books that did some small illusion work. people will argue that bottle and beak are not high mages but the range on bottles power and his access to the holds aswell as spirit magic makes him a force to reckon with (even if hes trying to avoid notice), and Beak, well access to EVERY warren and an understanding to go along with it, need i say more. How many more quick bens are out there? and if anyone can remember any hints at some powerfull mages i would like to go back and read it again and see if i can get some different view points

[Use Of Weapons]

I'd agree with Beak, but not with Bottle. I just don't think he's shown the depth of power that has marked out other High Mages in the series. Breadth, certainly, but even QB wasn't a High Mage due to his mastery of lots of warrens -- it was other factors (like his confrontation with Icarium).

[anothevilbadguy]

SilenceYourTongueAndWitness, on 13 April 2010 - 02:15 PM, said:

Okay, So this may have been covered by a previous thread but out of the malazan army how many of the mages scattered between the 14th would be considered high mages if they were not hiding among the ranks, I'm basing high mage status off of raw power and the ability to use one's power. Thus far every "unimportant" mage thats been plucked up has had some sort of power no one knew about (Beak having access to EVERY warren) the only mage i can think of that isnt worth the title is a mage from one of the first couple books that did some small illusion work. people will argue that bottle and beak are not high mages but the range on bottles power and his access to the holds aswell as spirit magic makes him a force to reckon with (even if hes trying to avoid notice), and Beak, well access to EVERY warren and an understanding to go along with it, need i say more. How many more quick bens are out there? and if anyone can remember any hints at some powerfull mages i would like to go back and read it again and see if i can get some different view points

Sin and Quick Ben certainly. Beak was. And it seems from the knowledge of magic that Bottle has he should be classed as well. Nobody else in the Bone hunters has really illustrated high mage class. Although Ebron (?) must be pretty tough to have restrained Karsa for so long, but I think that was part luck and getting Karsa in his formative years. But anyway it isn't really a very clear term, in the main it is more a rank.

[anothevilbadguy]

jitsukerr, on 13 April 2010 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'd agree with Beak, but not with Bottle. I just don't think he's shown the depth of power that has marked out other High Mages in the series. Breadth, certainly, but even QB wasn't a High Mage due to his mastery of lots of warrens -- it was other factors (like his confrontation with Icarium).

Quick was a high mage before the confrontation. He was in fact under a different name, and he would have been if other new of his range, he kept it pretty secret.

[Aptorian]

There's two kinds of High Mages. Very strong ones and very skilled ones.

Up until Reapers Gale it seemed like High Mage was a title denoting a person of considerable skill, knowledge and experience. As of Reapers Gale it would seem that being stronger and more destructive will also earn you such a title.

I guess you need to make a distinction between Mages in an army and Mages outside the army. To be honest I doubt there were many "High Mage" worthy mages in the Bonehunters. There's a lot of specialists though, some of which make for good combat mages, but most of them are only good for support.

[D'rek]

High Mage potential in the 14th? Sinn and Bottle.

Maaaybe Beak, but no not really since for him to do anything impressive appears to require killing himself.
Balgrid is supposedly a really good illusionist (and then in RG he's a necromancer), but probably not High Mage.
Widdershins and Tavos Pond are just lesser illusionists.
Ebron is surprisingly powerful and very diverse - he can supercharge horses, make Dhenrabi-catching nets to snare Karsa, fire waves of death that kill dozens and plenty more. I'd say he'd be a good candidate to be at a High Mage level later on in his life after he has more experience and develops his skills further.

[ConjurererOfSeasons]

I believe that Steven Erikson, as usual, is making Bottle a character who underestimates himself. I can see him tapping into his power and truly becoming a force to be reckoned with, especially with the Eres'al.
As for others among the fourteenth, definitely Sinn. As for Beak, I consider him the equivalent of a child prodigy with instruments. He has a full understanding of music and all its complexities (Warrens and magic), but really doesn't know why or how, its just there.

[Ulrik]

IMO High Mage is formal title describing person with magical abilities capable of exceptional feats. Some can juggle twelve warrens, others can be great deck readers, other can be good in working with demons, others can use unusual portion from his warren and some can be "only" capable of using animals in huge numbers, be connected to spirits...




Was Beak High Mage? No, there wasnt time to give him this title. Could be? Yes...he posessed every warren and had no limits...to his finish and BH´s luck. Bottle? Well, he proved as exceptional cadre mage and with his connection to Eresal...his power is great..but unstable:)

[bonzihunter]

Ulrik, on 16 April 2010 - 08:21 PM, said:

IMO High Mage is formal title describing person with magical abilities capable of exceptional feats. Some can juggle twelve warrens, others can be great deck readers, other can be good in working with demons, others can use unusual portion from his warren and some can be "only" capable of using animals in huge numbers, be connected to spirits...




Was Beak High Mage? No, there wasnt time to give him this title. Could be? Yes...he posessed every warren and had no limits...to his finish and BH´s luck. Bottle? Well, he proved as exceptional cadre mage and with his connection to Eresal...his power is great..but unstable:)

Beak WAS a high mage - it's not up for debate. Sure he was never formally given that title, given that he died while unveiling the full extent of his power, but somebody (in the Bonehunters I think?) mentions that he was a high mage after his death. Sorry, don't remember who or what the exact quote was, but the words "high mage" were definitely used by somebody to describe Beak.

[hmqb]

Yep and remember in Gotm how even tattersail isn't a high mage, shes just mage cadre but still seems pretty damn powerful.

[Silencer]

Well, Tattersail had been offered the position of High Mage at least once, remember. And she barely managed to survive the enfilade when she wasn't even a direct target.

Also, Beak had a very definitive limit. Right about the time when he spontaneously combusted, that would be his limit.

Ebron is an interesting case, though the best thing he can do is the Dhenrabi net - something which apparently requires High Ruse, or close to it. But I think, if he survives, later in life he could blossom into High Mage material.

[hmqb]

Ahhh damn forgot about that part, well I think there isn't just some magical limit where when all of sudden someone gets good enough everybodys like, Ok yep we got a high mage. I think its after people see that they a worthy to be ranked as a high mage. IE quick ben where he hides as a lowly squad mage but then they decide to bump him up to high mage, see he was a high mage and a squad mage with the same power.

[Silencer]

Well, it's hard to say. Quick was deliberately hiding his power and abilities, so while he did have the same power as a squad mage, he wasn't considered a High Mage just because no-one knew his true capabilities. He revealed those in MoI, and so was promoted.

Now, the limit may not be exact, but this isn't Dragonball Z where people have little scanners that calculate someone's exact power level, either. I'd say there is a definite cut-off where you can say "Nope, that one's not a high mage", but it's not something you can do just by looking at someone - you have to take into account potential, etc.

[Cedz]

I think we can all agree that Beak definitely had the raw power to be considered a High Mage after defending against a ritual that took a full week to unleash raw chaos in a wave so large that it would have annihilated anything in its path for leagues in the direction it was heading. I don't think any single mage has had to defend against something of that magnitude in such a short amount of time.

Beaks ability to access pretty much all of the warrens with a relatively high amount of skill also shows that he had the aptitude to be considered a High Mage.

Edit: My bad forgot which forum I was in!

This post has been edited by Cedz: 30 April 2012 - 11:01 PM

[worry]

Don't post spoilers, Cedz.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 30 April 2012 - 08:04 AM

[Kanese S's]

But aren't Reaper's Gale spoilers allowed in the Reaper's Gale subforum? I thought that's how it worked, that subforums for, say, Reaper's Gale, include spoilers for all books up to and including it, but no spoilers for subsequent books. Since talking about Beak's feat of magery that cost him his life is not a spoiler for subsequent books, I thought it's allowed?

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 30 April 2012 - 09:50 AM

[MTS]

Kanese S, on 30 April 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

But aren't Reaper's Gale spoilers allowed in the Reaper's Gale subforum? I thought that's how it worked, that subforums for, say, Reaper's Gale, include spoilers for all books up to and including it, but no spoilers for subsequent books. Since talking about Beak's feat of magery that cost him his life is not a spoiler for subsequent books, I thought it's allowed?

Beak's not the spoiler...