[Axil]

I've only read book one, and this is my second fantasy series, so I'm by no means an expert. That said, I found it very hard to visualize Erikson's world in my mind. There are way too many locations with not enough description. The magic system is fascinating but, again, not enough description (For example, at major plot points in the book, main characters are throwing around jars with demons in them. wtf? where did that come from?).

The more I read the more I came to the realization that Erikson created a world too complex to set a story in. This became especially apparent at the ending, which was way too fast and random. It seemed like solutions were being pulled out of thin air and that magic was being used as a crutch. I'll be giving Deadhouse Gates a try, mainly because I'm impressed with the imagination shown in the books, if not the storytelling. So far, the series isn't my style, though.

[beru]

gardens of the moon is a hard book to read the first time, manly beacuse (as you said) of the little info you get, but as you read the following books you will get a more compleate picture of the Malazan world.

[Aptorian]

The real world is a complicated mess, why should a fantasy world be any different?

Erikson doesn't hold your hand and gave you 5 page expositions on the nature of magic or the history of the empire. Instead he choses to put some characters in some crazy situations and through dialogue and discoveries small pieces of information are leaked to the reader.

Keep reading, you learn more as you go, but trust me, we have one book to go in the series and there is still a mountain of questions unanswered.

[Gothos]

It's true enough that the series is hard to get into. Myself I gave up at page 100-something the first time I read GotM. Then I tried again without trying to rush it and it clicked.
The difficulty is, IMO, part of it's magic, one of the most important parts of the series. Once you get into it and start understanding a bit about how the world works and what's what and who's who, you kinda feel like a pro.

[SpectreofEschaton]

If anything, it's not big enough. I'd be ecstatic to hear that the main series had been extended to 20 books or more, honestly. I have a feeling the last book is going to cause me some serious depression upon finishing it.

Of course, it took me three tries to get through GotM the first time. Hard to believe the ending didn't snare you though. Rake on the belfry had me sold on the series for life.

Do bear in mind going in that DG is a very different kind of book and largely unrelated (for the moment) to the events in GotM. That threw me off a little at the beginnig, but hang in there.

What I wouldn't give to be in your position right now, reading these for the first time....

[Gothos]

Well, there's always Bauchlain & Korbal novels, ICE's books, future Toblakai Trilogy and Karkhanas Trilogy, the Darujhistan novel, Assail novel, Stonewielder, etc... I doubt that the imaginative gentlemen will just leave that world be for quite some time.

[Abyss]

As a second epic fantasy series i can see where it hammers the thinkymeatz. A lot of us came to the series with a chunk of fantasy lit done, so at least some of the tropes are ....mildly less incomprehensible... maybe.

Just my $0.02, but if you don't try too hard to completely understand everything that's happening (ie: don't try to understand all there is to know about warrens, Ascendents and Gods, the Deck, why everyone wants to shag Tattersail...), and trust that the author is going to tell you the story his way, it will be a bit easier to read.

And it's SOOOOOO worth it. Truly a brilliant series. And if you decide to eventually do a reread, you'll be amazed at a whole other level of stuff in the earlier books that makes a whole other level of sense after you've read the later books.

(oh, and the jars of demons... Dungeons & Dragons, circa 1983... )

- Abyss, notes that on the flip side, this will destroy tons of lesser fantasy you may read afterwards.

[Jorram]

 Abyss, on 16 March 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:

why everyone wants to shag Tattersail...),

this one stays mystery until the very end

[foolio]

Stick with it, you will be happy you do.
I sympathize though, what drove me crazy getting into GOTM was hearing of locations and looking on the map for them and being unable to find them. I wish there was some form of note that said "Malaz city is on another continent." I wasted much time trying to look for locations mentioned on the map, to no avail.

[Werthead]

To the original question, no. I think Erikson aimed for something far more ambitious than most epic fantasies have ever attempted and, even if he has sometimes fallen short in one way or another, certainly such ambition shouldn't be denigrated.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Werthead, on 16 March 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

To the original question, no. I think Erikson aimed for something far more ambitious than most epic fantasies have ever attempted and, even if he has sometimes fallen short in one way or another, certainly such ambition shouldn't be denigrated.

agree. nothing can be too big and complicated, people may just be less dedicated, and the MBotF rewards dedication like no other series. keep reading and don't be afraid to bring any other questions up here.

[Wampyry]

 Axil, on 16 March 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:

I've only read book one, and this is my second fantasy series, so I'm by no means an expert. That said, I found it very hard to visualize Erikson's world in my mind. There are way too many locations with not enough description. The magic system is fascinating but, again, not enough description (For example, at major plot points in the book, main characters are throwing around jars with demons in them. wtf? where did that come from?).

The more I read the more I came to the realization that Erikson created a world too complex to set a story in. This became especially apparent at the ending, which was way too fast and random. It seemed like solutions were being pulled out of thin air and that magic was being used as a crutch. I'll be giving Deadhouse Gates a try, mainly because I'm impressed with the imagination shown in the books, if not the storytelling. So far, the series isn't my style, though.

I was luckier than you. The guy who recommended Erickson to me stated that I have to read the first three books to determine whether or not Erikson was an author for me. That was four years ago. Read all the books twice and I have a zillion questions. But I have a terrible memory. Still a great fan of the author

[maro]

It's actually not as detailed as it could be - there are 3 questions for each answer and the history side of the world is rarely expounded.

[Axil]

Thanks for the replies. I am enjoying Deadhouse Gates much more than GoTM. I think if Erikson had written Gardens' with the same quality as Deadhouse Gates he'd be a lot more popular.

[Sinisdar Toste]

well thats what comes from writing them ten years apart i suppose

[Illuyankas]

 Jorram, on 16 March 2010 - 02:55 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 16 March 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:

why everyone wants to shag Tattersail...),

this one stays mystery until the very end

Spoiler:

Spoiler

They find her attractive due to her gravitational pull.

[Jorram]

lol

back to the original question - the MbotF is too big and complicated for none else but SE himself
he gets lost so often! i mean if we dont get lost, why should he??
i've seriously never seen any other series with so many sheer impossibilities in timeline and instead of masking his mistakes in a clever way (even on the expense of implausible explanations), he'd rather just go on and insert new inconsistencies, this is just plain crazy ><

[Pilgrim]

I read DG first because my local bookstore didn't have GOTM when I decided to give Erikson a start. I then went back and read GOTM. It was confusing as hell to start, but well worth it. One thing about this series that, to me, separates it from others I've read, is the rereadability. I've done at least one full re-read, and the new stuff you discover is simply...amazing. I think that over time this series will come to be recognized as the defining work of fantasy literature for this generation. Unlike most fantasy that I've read, there's no "middle slump" in quality, no hints that the author is rambling around trying to find his direction, very few extraneous storylines that go nowhere. As a whole, (and up to Dust of Dreams at least), it appears that Erikson has had this whole story mapped out from the very beginning, and I'm looking forward to seeing it all tie together at the end. Enjoy!

[Rutt]

I decided to read GotM after I read a few things about it on another forum. It seems a lot of people have trouble getting into it. I thought it wouldn't have been that hard and went to try it myself. I came to the conclusion that GotM wasn't as difficult as most people likened it to be - there were parts where I had to read over again, and little snippets of information that had me guessing throughout, but overall, it played out like a movie in my head. That said, I went straight into DG and that's where all the problems began. Whilst I enjoyed it, it threw me off that it whilst it was a continuation of GotM, it didn't actually have a majority of the characters I loved from the first novel. That was enough to put me off it, though as I continued reading it got a lot better. HoC did it to me again with the whole Karsa Orlong plot at the beginning. I had to remind myself that each novel built up a bigger picture, and that in itself made it much more enjoyable for me to read. I had to keep reading to discover all the answers to all the unanswered questions.

[Vetekorn]

Yoyo, first post here:)

Just finished GotM and I don't think it was nearly as complicated as many here say. Actually, the only thing I had problems with was the gods, and that was only in the beginning of the book, and Kruppe's crazy dreams. Compared to almost all of J.R.R Tolkien's works this was like a child's book imo (if you compare the difficulty that is). And what's all this fuzz about the "magic system"? Isn't the thing about magic that you don't really understand it all? Much like chemistry; you know a lot but you don't know everything, sometimes you just have to mix substances together and see what you get. I don't think I've ever read a book where the magic system is thoroughly explained, and I think you get to know much of the magic system in GotM. You know that there is warrens where the mages get their power and you know that each warren has a "speciallization". Maybe you get to know even more in future books, but I would be fully content with what I've gotten this far and could easily manage all the other books with what little knowledge I have.

Ah well, some thoughts that was. I'd say this book is for people that likes thinking and puzzling things together. The lists with names and such that comes with the book is a great help to understand. I checked it almost constantly in the beginning.