[Eloth]

Maybe it's the usage of the language that I'm not getting. Osserc says that perhaps Fener is a member of the inquisition, who then get a kill each time he is lynched (but not necessarily let die by the inquisition). You respond with, well why didn't they let the day one lynch through (when neither lynch has gone through to death)?

No lynches have been let through. Zero. Thus, they wouldn't let any lynch of him through because they get a kill every time they block it.

Lynch does not = death this game. It equals waiting on a panel to decide whether or not you die.

[Shadow]

Well, while I agree with D'riss that it could easily be too blatant to be a signal, or that maybe Mockra is getting set up, it's hard to deny that he's NOT on Kalse's team and thus, for the purposes of trying not to give the NW an easy victory, should attempt to be lynched. Anthras is perhaps a good choice, but inferior to Mockra, IMO.

[Shadow]

And contrary to Eloth's opinion, I'm not entirely sure that a Fener lynch today is a bad idea. Most of the 'ties' in this game seem to go back to Fener. Fener+Mockra, Fener+Gamelon, Fener+Anthras. Unless there's a particular reason the Inquisition think he should be spared, or he is one, I would guess that the third time would be the charm. But I also understand the sense of futility in it, as well.

[Eloth]

I could go with a Mockra lynch, but I just didn't like some of the reasoning I picked out about it. The whole "distancing" thing is completely opposite the "they can't be on the same team" statement you are making. Which means, something strange is there. I'm currently debating who I want to lay my vote on right now (cognizant of the fact that there's maybe 7 hours or so left).

[Eloth]

DP, sorry.

Shadow, on 19 March 2010 - 08:29 PM, said:

And contrary to Eloth's opinion, I'm not entirely sure that a Fener lynch today is a bad idea. Most of the 'ties' in this game seem to go back to Fener. Fener+Mockra, Fener+Gamelon, Fener+Anthras. Unless there's a particular reason the Inquisition think he should be spared, or he is one, I would guess that the third time would be the charm. But I also understand the sense of futility in it, as well.

But, we all know that Fener is someone that is definitely lynchable. Meaning, nobody really cares all that much about keeping him around, do they? We don't learn who is more or less likely to vote for an alternative candidate.

[Eloth]

Alright. Mockra was an early candidate yesterday for his weird vote on Kalse, who is now dead. He slipped through and we ended up lynching Fener again with no other candidates than Anthras at the very end.

Let's see where Mockra leads us.

Vote Mockra.

[D'riss]

Shadow, on 19 March 2010 - 08:29 PM, said:

And contrary to Eloth's opinion, I'm not entirely sure that a Fener lynch today is a bad idea. Most of the 'ties' in this game seem to go back to Fener. Fener+Mockra, Fener+Gamelon, Fener+Anthras. Unless there's a particular reason the Inquisition think he should be spared, or he is one, I would guess that the third time would be the charm. But I also understand the sense of futility in it, as well.

Why would the third time be the charm? If Fener was indeed signalling Day 1 to recruit Kalse or is Inquisition, then they won't let him through regardless. If he's Day Watch (or Night Watch? I get confused; the opposite of Kalse) then it's up in the air really, but it seems to me that while lynching him isn't a bad idea, it's not the most useful idea t the moment.

EDIT: dammit, I really should refresh the page before I post.

This post has been edited by D'riss: 19 March 2010 - 08:50 PM

[Spite]

Well, I've read the thread, albeit not with the attention to detail as I should've, there was a surprising amount of pages waiting for me.

First off, I know this has been said before, but ONE DOES NOT ARGUE FOR OR DEMAND MOD KILLS IN THREAD! The mods deal with that sort of thing and if you're so terribly upset by someone messing with your style or whatever, take it up through pm... There.. Sorry but that was a seriously aggravating read.

Now, what I see from the things that stood out for me is a lot of attempts at muddying the waters and some strange strange logic. I'll get to that in a second.

Ruse, on 19 March 2010 - 04:53 AM, said:

Damn that was impressive you posted exactly 36 hours after your previous post by my count

Coincidence, but kind of cut all the same. The universe bend to my needs.

Osseric, on 19 March 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:

After having some time to think on it, I think it's a pretty good bet that Fener is probably part of the inquisition with a role that lets him kill if he gets lynched. Thats where my money is anyway. In that case it's probably a good idea to vote for him, as it empowers the inquisitors. ( granted this is only if you aren't part of a watch)

Or, conversely, he could be a NW recruit, like he says, and in this case I think the inquisitors would let a lynch go through to rebalance the game. this would be good for all parties involved (NW being the exception)

What we do know, is that as of last night, he wasn't part of the DW.


So.....

vote Fener

this will be the last time I vote him, with the result of this lynch we are getting a ton of information, and, unless you are part of the watch, it really doesn't hurt. Thats a win win.

This is just absurd. My experience is that when people start voicing very outlandish theories to strengthen arguments otherwise based on shaky logic, they're arguing to reach an already decided conclusion.

It's "a pretty good bet" that Fener has an absolutely absurd sort of role that makes no sense in regards to the books, setting or otherwise and has no basis other than we lynched Fener and the following night someone died. There's been an increase in rape over the last 50 years. During that same time the amount of people using electric tooth brushes has gone up. Obviously electric tooth brushes cause rape.

Osseric continues to argue that because Fener has this power we should continue lynching him every day so as to give the inquisition the power to trim the two watches down to balanced sizes. Basically Osseric advocates that we should for the third time in a row waste our only tool for reducing the strength of the watches by trying to lynch someone the Inquisition clearly says will not be lynched. Based on a theory so outlandish I can't even find a fitting simile to describe it.

And then Shadow agrees that we should lynch Fener for the third time as well! There are but two explanations for this. Either they're both daft as a bag of hammers, or they're trying to make the innocents go another day without results.

So yeah, I don't think there should be any doubt in this regard.

Osseric


Also, was it Anthras who suggested the Mirror thing? Another suggestion that muddies the water without being in any way likely (yes, let us introduce a fifth faction (if you keep the innos and the inquisition separate) that is semi-immortal and immune to magic.

[Eloth]

It was Anthras who suggested the mirror, yes.

There is a valid point in Osseric's post that because Fener is a recruit (NW, assuming) it would go through as it would help re-balance. That isn't a bad argument, it's just not in my opinion a better argument than we still learn fuck all from lynching Fener.

[Spite]

Eloth, on 19 March 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

It was Anthras who suggested the mirror, yes.

There is a valid point in Osseric's post that because Fener is a recruit (NW, assuming) it would go through as it would help re-balance. That isn't a bad argument, it's just not in my opinion a better argument than we still learn fuck all from lynching Fener.

I disagree. For one we certainly can't trust Fener. Two, if we buy that he was recruited we know he's a watch member and I'd assume the Inquisition knows which watch he belongs to. Furthermore, one must assume the other watch knows he's not in their faction (or will pick it up soon enough) and take steps. Meaning instead of going a third day most likely not getting a lynch we can actually acquire some new information.

I don't, for that matter, quite follow the inquisition's logic in not letting Fener as a regular recruit be lynched on day 2.

[Gamelon]

Spite, on 19 March 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

Well, I've read the thread, albeit not with the attention to detail as I should've, there was a surprising amount of pages waiting for me.

First off, I know this has been said before, but ONE DOES NOT ARGUE FOR OR DEMAND MOD KILLS IN THREAD! The mods deal with that sort of thing and if you're so terribly upset by someone messing with your style or whatever, take it up through pm... There.. Sorry but that was a seriously aggravating read.

Now, what I see from the things that stood out for me is a lot of attempts at muddying the waters and some strange strange logic. I'll get to that in a second.

Ruse, on 19 March 2010 - 04:53 AM, said:

Damn that was impressive you posted exactly 36 hours after your previous post by my count

Coincidence, but kind of cut all the same. The universe bend to my needs.

Osseric, on 19 March 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:

After having some time to think on it, I think it's a pretty good bet that Fener is probably part of the inquisition with a role that lets him kill if he gets lynched. Thats where my money is anyway. In that case it's probably a good idea to vote for him, as it empowers the inquisitors. ( granted this is only if you aren't part of a watch)

Or, conversely, he could be a NW recruit, like he says, and in this case I think the inquisitors would let a lynch go through to rebalance the game. this would be good for all parties involved (NW being the exception)

What we do know, is that as of last night, he wasn't part of the DW.


So.....

vote Fener

this will be the last time I vote him, with the result of this lynch we are getting a ton of information, and, unless you are part of the watch, it really doesn't hurt. Thats a win win.

This is just absurd. My experience is that when people start voicing very outlandish theories to strengthen arguments otherwise based on shaky logic, they're arguing to reach an already decided conclusion.

It's "a pretty good bet" that Fener has an absolutely absurd sort of role that makes no sense in regards to the books, setting or otherwise and has no basis other than we lynched Fener and the following night someone died. There's been an increase in rape over the last 50 years. During that same time the amount of people using electric tooth brushes has gone up. Obviously electric tooth brushes cause rape.

Osseric continues to argue that because Fener has this power we should continue lynching him every day so as to give the inquisition the power to trim the two watches down to balanced sizes. Basically Osseric advocates that we should for the third time in a row waste our only tool for reducing the strength of the watches by trying to lynch someone the Inquisition clearly says will not be lynched. Based on a theory so outlandish I can't even find a fitting simile to describe it.

And then Shadow agrees that we should lynch Fener for the third time as well! There are but two explanations for this. Either they're both daft as a bag of hammers, or they're trying to make the innocents go another day without results.

So yeah, I don't think there should be any doubt in this regard.

Osseric


Also, was it Anthras who suggested the Mirror thing? Another suggestion that muddies the water without being in any way likely (yes, let us introduce a fifth faction (if you keep the innos and the inquisition separate) that is semi-immortal and immune to magic.

At last someone who is able to see things the way that I see. I could easily get behind an Osseric lynch.

[Ruse]

Shit, overslept on my nap and now i have to go and i really havent had any chance to properly read most of todays stuff.
Much as i would love to lynch Fener just because hes being a distraction i dont think its that viable at the moment. Also to the person who said Fener is probably not a leader because he's been so easy to lynch. He has also been getting a fair amount of people both days trying to stop people lynching him.

other than that im really not sure sorry, dont know when the time out is or what time were on now so i dont know if il be back in time to be useful.

Also are we having a weekend break? i havent seen it mentioned

[Spite]

You know an easy way to make Fener stop being a distraction? Ignore him. It's not like he's posting much and I doubt he's able to manipulate your mind through invisible brain waves.... Unless you've forgotten to put on your hat.

[Osseric]

Spite, on 19 March 2010 - 09:13 PM, said:

I don't, for that matter, quite follow the inquisition's logic in not letting Fener as a regular recruit be lynched on day 2.

Are you being purposefully dense?

Do you not know what the winning conditions for the night watch are?

Are you assuming that the game started out imbalanced?


Why would the inqiusition let a Fener lynch go through Day 2? at that point the game was still balanced. Thats all they care about. they can win the game with all 15 people still alive.

Look, i can understand not wanting to waste another lynch on Fener. Fine. It has been frustrating, and it hasn't yielded much results. But you have to admit, that things have changed (because of the night 2 kill), and the balance has shifted since the begining of the game. Am I wrong in this? You can disagree with me all you want, but I think I have logic behind my reasoning for voting Fener. Others have pointed this out (Shadow, Eloth,) , Calling me "Daft as a bag of Hammers" and dropping a vote cause you don't agree with the logic just makes it look like you are pushing something. You can disagree with the logic all you want, but you are the daft one if you don't think it's going to give us any info.


Anyway, I am out. There is a slight chance i'll be back before lynch.

Since it doesn't look like it's going to happen

remove vote

vote Mockra

I think we have to lynch someone, and I'm not voting for myself.

[Shadow]

Osseric, on 19 March 2010 - 10:51 PM, said:

I think we have to attempt to lynch someone, and I'm not voting for myself.

Fixed that for ya, Osseric.

Also, if you need help voting yourself off, I'll happily vote for you... just kidding, you're one of the few people that aren't blabbering nonsensically in this game right now.

[Eloth]

~3 hours til day is over.

I think vote-count looks like this:

3 votes Mockra: Shadow, Eloth, Osseric
1 vote Osseric: Spite
1 vote Anthras: Gamelon

[D'riss]

Hmm, well we do need a lynch, and I have said I'd get behind a Mockra lynch, so

Vote Mockra

[Path-Shaper]

a bit over 2 hours till Day ends. once it does, i'll freeze the clock


4 votes Mockra: Shadow, Eloth, Osseric D'riss
1 vote Osseric: Spite
1 vote Anthras: Gamelon

whick means 9 people haven't voted: Alkend, Antras, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Mockra, Omtose, Ruse, Serc,
-ment

[Spite]

Osseric, on 19 March 2010 - 10:51 PM, said:

Spite, on 19 March 2010 - 09:13 PM, said:

I don't, for that matter, quite follow the inquisition's logic in not letting Fener as a regular recruit be lynched on day 2.

Are you being purposefully dense?

Do you not know what the winning conditions for the night watch are?

Are you assuming that the game started out imbalanced?


Why would the inqiusition let a Fener lynch go through Day 2? at that point the game was still balanced. Thats all they care about. they can win the game with all 15 people still alive.

Look, i can understand not wanting to waste another lynch on Fener. Fine. It has been frustrating, and it hasn't yielded much results. But you have to admit, that things have changed (because of the night 2 kill), and the balance has shifted since the begining of the game. Am I wrong in this? You can disagree with me all you want, but I think I have logic behind my reasoning for voting Fener. Others have pointed this out (Shadow, Eloth,) , Calling me "Daft as a bag of Hammers" and dropping a vote cause you don't agree with the logic just makes it look like you are pushing something. You can disagree with the logic all you want, but you are the daft one if you don't think it's going to give us any info.


Anyway, I am out. There is a slight chance i'll be back before lynch.

Since it doesn't look like it's going to happen

remove vote

vote Mockra

I think we have to lynch someone, and I'm not voting for myself.

It's cute and all that you're trying to hang onto the least important aspects like my question in regards to not letting the Fener lynch of night 2 go through. Still, we're not getting past a) your ridiculous notion of Fener's role and subsequent conclusions based on this, and b ) thinking that doing what is in all likelihood another wasted lynch just because maybe the balance might have changed in a way that will influence the result of a Fener lynch is a good idea.

So yeah, daft as a bag of hammer fits nicely I reckon.

[Spite]

Anyways, I'd be willing to vote for Mockra, and will most likely if nothing changes before I leave or the clock approaches 0