[Mockra]

@kalse

Ok, I'll admit I missed Fener mentioning you. That's what I get for watching TV and reading thread at the same time. But I wouldn't be surprised if Fener deliberately mentioned his associate(s) in an act of distancing (see what I said about Serc).

What do you want me to question? I don't have any information to work from, and there's a difference between speculation and sounding pretty confident about their stated possibilities. You and Serc strike me as the most likely false speculators.

OK, you want questions. What's your best guess for a possible associate(s) of Fener?

[Galayn Lord]

Gamelon, on 18 March 2010 - 02:29 PM, said:

Personally I am going to ignore Fener and look for players who could be potential watch members. I think that it is more likely that Fener is having a hard time playing and wanting out of the game, and for some perverted reason the inquisition decided not to oblige him. Now he is trying to through every thing and the kitchen sink in to the game to get lynched again.

wouldnt it just be best for everyone involved to ask fo a mod kill if this is true?

I think there is more too it but yea...we gotto move on because his actions are beyond anything any normal person can comprehend

[Kalse]

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

@kalse

Ok, I'll admit I missed Fener mentioning you. That's what I get for watching TV and reading thread at the same time. But I wouldn't be surprised if Fener deliberately mentioned his associate(s) in an act of distancing (see what I said about Serc).

What do you want me to question? I don't have any information to work from, and there's a difference between speculation and sounding pretty confident about their stated possibilities. You and Serc strike me as the most likely false speculators.

OK, you want questions. What's your best guess for a possible associate(s) of Fener?

I haven't really drawn up schematics of who may be connected with whom yet, and he had a grand total of 3 posts yesterday and some incomprehensible stuff right now. Moreover, if he wasn't a starting Watch member, his posts from yesterday cannot be believed. Today, all his text points at himself only.

If we assume he was a starting watch member, well, his antics started late in the day and there were votes on no-one else so it is unlikely his was a deflection attempt. If we assume he was only recruited last night, then ehm.. nothing to go on either as he pointed his finger at his own ass straightaway.

I'd look in order of importance for:
A those who immediately discount believing anything he says but do not want to lynch him;
B the consistently quiet ones;
C players that encourage Fener to play differently (GL comes to mind) as they may have a personal stake in him playing differently;
D and finally the players that made a promise yesterday to come with info and failed to do so up until now - but that's more something for tomorrow. He could be covering for them.

[Shadow]

Galayn Lord, on 18 March 2010 - 12:52 PM, said:

Fener, on 18 March 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:

Gl... ur....
a...dick. ...can't. Clean gtammer...phone auto corrects...sometime. ..peace of shit. ... can't mod kill me for playing. The game dumass. ..so stop shining and vote

im not being a dick

its in the fucking rules of every game... you say you have been recruited.
If this is true and you tell the thread and say kill me then you are playing against your team. Therefore according to the rules you must be mod killed.

So if you are not modkilled that means you are lying about being recruited.

OR

You are a looking to get killed as part of your own personal victory conditions...

Morning, all.

I think Fener is being a putz, too, but if he is who I believe he is, it probably is kind of a struggle for him to play right now.

Otherwise, lots of good speculation here, but ultimately, I hope you see how futile it is to try and lynch Fener. If he's telling the truth, the Inquisition would be definitely have no reason to let his lynch go through at this point. If he's Inquisition, he's clearly not worried about being lynched. If he's a lying RI or some other mysterious character, Inquisition would probably have to 'guess' as much (or have inside info) to let the lynch through.

Fener's a waste of atm, IMO.

[Shadow]

D, on 18 March 2010 - 01:33 PM, said:

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

Vote Kalse

Because he seems unrelated to Fener's weird play (which means he might be). And to prove I'm not connected to him. And because he's got a number of posts that suggests he's likely interesting in game terms.

All great reasons.

Bit out of left field...except he's not unrelated. Fener told us to lynch Kalse after him (with no elaboration, typically).

+rep for an excellent point. Kalse does ring my bell quite a bit, TBH, but hard to not look at this argument.

[Shadow]

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 01:54 PM, said:

And self-interest my ass. Obviously I'm not voting for you because I think it helps me somehow. You're just less random than anyone else. I'm not voting fishy-fener. But I'll vote someone else who could be his associate. Frankly, I think it's someone he mentioned - wifoming it up when information is on your side is roled players bread and butter.


And isn't it a safe bet that Fener isn't the inquisition? He can be dealt with later. If I change votes, I think Serc would be a decent bet based on Fener's non-existent but claimed case.

You realize, of course, that this makes no sense, right? You'd vote Serc for a non-existent case from a guy you already don't trust?

It looks a lot like you're trying to force a vote today, Mockra.

[D'riss]

Not a case on anyone in particular, just a few things I found a little odd about this recent exchange.

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

Vote Kalse

Because he seems unrelated to Fener's weird play (which means he might be). And to prove I'm not connected to him. And because he's got a number of posts that suggests he's likely interesting in game terms.

All great reasons.

This, as has been noted before, is a very strange vote. Out of the blue, erroneous in Kalse's unrelatedness (bad reading), a distance vote in a bid to prove that he's not related to him (despite two instances of voting interaction in the early game [could be innocuous]) aaand for the kicker, essentially because he's a high poster. Great reasons? I'm unconvinced. Does not scream inno to me, but let's not judge prematurely.

Kalse, on 18 March 2010 - 01:35 PM, said:

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

Vote Kalse

Because he seems unrelated to Fener's weird play (which means he might be). And to prove I'm not connected to him. And because he's got a number of posts that suggests he's likely interesting in game terms.

All great reasons.

Self interest before team inno's interest? Interesting
In defense, I am more than happy to say that I have been speculating a lot on the nature of mechanics and strategy. Clearly a scum tactic, for example, being the first to come up with the way we currently interprete the nature of the Inquisitions decision, and motives for Fener. Which I obviously do because I am a Watch Member who likes secrecy...

Attacks Mockra for self-interest and says 'I'm the reason we all think about the Inquisition, so I'm obviously not Watch', in a weird bit of logic. Best defense is a good offense? Okay, I guess, if youdon't mind the oddly haughty overtone...

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

Wait, did you just say "because I am speculating and postulating I'm obviously not the Watch"?

That's the dumbest thing ever. It's easier to speculate on this sort of game when you have more information than the rank and file inno. That's why scum do well in regular town/scum games - because they have more information and can just sound smarter and more trustworthy.

I'm mostly feeling lost at the moment, and am a bit suspicious of those who seem to have a more, ahem, natural handle on the game mechanics...

Kalse, you could just be a name out of a hat for me, except for your post count and an alleged connection to me.

Mockra, on 18 March 2010 - 01:54 PM, said:

And self-interest my ass. Obviously I'm not voting for you because I think it helps me somehow. You're just less random than anyone else. I'm not voting fishy-fener. But I'll vote someone else who could be his associate. Frankly, I think it's someone he mentioned - wifoming it up when information is on your side is roled players bread and butter.


And isn't it a safe bet that Fener isn't the inquisition? He can be dealt with later. If I change votes, I think Serc would be a decent bet based on Fener's non-existent but claimed case.

While I think Mockra makes a fair point in the first bit of the first post, the bolded bits are very weird. Kalse goes from being a particular high-poster with an apparently suspicious grasp on game mechanics to a seemingly less-random player than anyone else. Change of position? Not sure. Not to mention the fact that he mentions that his vote is not self-interest, and won't benefit him, despite the fact that his initial vote was to disprove a connection between them...

The italicised bit is also odd. A case with no evidence, and based on two people's culpability to boot, is a decent vote?

Serc, on 18 March 2010 - 02:12 PM, said:

Wait, what?

I am really confused by Fener right now, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. About the only possible explanation I can think of is that he was part of the watch yesterday and wants us to vote him again, knowing that he's not going to die (based on not dying yesterday) and that it will get another free round of recruits. That's pretty far fetched and it has a couple of holes in it, but it's really the only thing I can think of...

I agree, there is definitely more going on here than meets the eye, but with zero information it's hard to tell if this is a bluff, or a double bluff or something even more convoluted. Damn WIFOM. Personally I think we should just ignore him for now, at least until the time he can come online and post at a level we can actually understand.

Mockra - I'm a good vote because a crazy dude mentioned my name once? In a normal game that would be scummy as hell, but I suppose we can play a little bit faster and looser with our inquisition safety net. Still, the vote on Kalse looks a lot like distancing considering it came completely out of the blue, and dropping names as potential lynches is normally scum's favourite way of testing the water.

Now this is where I agree with Mockra. Serc seems glad we're all still confused? I would be glad if I was the only one who was confused, not the other way round.

Not sure what to make of it to be honest. Mockra is having a bit of a brainfart, Kalse is rather cavalier about the whole thing and Serc is blinking wide-eyed stupid.

[Galayn Lord]

Shadow, on 18 March 2010 - 03:07 PM, said:

Otherwise, lots of good speculation here, but ultimately, I hope you see how futile it is to try and lynch Fener. If he's telling the truth, the Inquisition would be definitely have no reason to let his lynch go through at this point. If he's Inquisition, he's clearly not worried about being lynched. If he's a lying RI or some other mysterious character, Inquisition would probably have to 'guess' as much (or have inside info) to let the lynch through.

Fener's a waste of atm, IMO.

Thats a bloody good point

[Shadow]

Serc, on 18 March 2010 - 02:12 PM, said:

Wait, what?

I am really confused by Fener right now, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. About the only possible explanation I can think of is that he was part of the watch yesterday and wants us to vote him again, knowing that he's not going to die (based on not dying yesterday) and that it will get another free round of recruits. That's pretty far fetched and it has a couple of holes in it, but it's really the only thing I can think of...

I agree, there is definitely more going on here than meets the eye, but with zero information it's hard to tell if this is a bluff, or a double bluff or something even more convoluted. Damn WIFOM. Personally I think we should just ignore him for now, at least until the time he can come online and post at a level we can actually understand.

Mockra - I'm a good vote because a crazy dude mentioned my name once? In a normal game that would be scummy as hell, but I suppose we can play a little bit faster and looser with our inquisition safety net. Still, the vote on Kalse looks a lot like distancing considering it came completely out of the blue, and dropping names as potential lynches is normally scum's favourite way of testing the water.

+rep to you, too.

Really, though, Fener is a bad candidate for a lynch today for all of the reasons I said above. May as well start trying to find members of the opposite watch, if he's telling the truth.

[Mockra]

You wont see me claiming my vote on Kalse is a brilliant piece of work. But I was sick of the "woah Fener's crazy huh" posts and all of the mechanics speculation. Not that this speculation is bad, it has its place, but we've got pages of it and no more information on Day 2 than Day 1, and it just seems to me that people who started off the game with information can use mechanic speculation as a handy security blanket.

TBH, I'd like to remove vote and vote Serc, but then everyone would say "AHA, HE AND KALSE ARE PARTNERS AFTER ALL!" So I'm sticking to my rubber band guns, and going to bed because I'm pooped (from the finger up my butt).

Laterz.

[Serc]

My name's been bandied about a bit for odd reasons, some quick replies since I'm too lazy to go find the posts again.

@D'riss - I'm not glad about the fact that everyone's confused by Fener, just that I wasn't having a brain-fart when I read his post and couldn't figure out what the hell was going on.

@Gam - I mention Fener once and say we should probably ignore him, and I'm the guy that only wants to talk about fener?

@Mockra - I mentioned that you were suspcious because you did something scummy. Like four other people have called you on it too.

Now that that's done my thoughts. I think Mockra is the most likely to be some sort of watch at this point. He's pushing really hard and his vote on Kalse looks like distancing. That said, he hasn't removed it and seems to be genuinely suspcious of him, so I'm a little confused there.

Kalse I got a wierd vibe from yesterday, because of his whole let's just sit back and maintain the status quo argument, which I saw as let's sit back and wait to get recruited. Which could imply he's watch looking to coast for the first couple of days, or just doesnt like playing as RI.

Gam is kinda hanging around and making his presence felt, but a lot of it is off-hand comments and repetition of things that have already been said. The kind of behaviour that is usually typical of scum trying to blend in.

[Galayn Lord]

I dunno how much time is left but i got to leave now...should be back before day times out.

[Ruse]

weve got about 13 hours left i think

[Eloth]

Weird game is weird.

Here are my two thoughts on Fener:

My original thought yesterday remains, someone who desperately wants to get lynched and dead for whatever reason. Or,

He was perhaps signaling possible recruitment targets yesterday to his master. Granted, that would mean each Watch started off with two players, but it would explain the ridiculous amount of finger-pointing per post and the lack of care of being lynched (Inquisition wouldn't let a Watch player through).

If it's #2, then they would only be recruits at this point at not the original recruiter.

But, that's a big IF because option 1 still seems entirely plausible.

[Shadow]

Oh hi, forums are up.

I totally lost what I was posting when it went down earlier... let me try to restate it more or less.

[Shadow]

Basically, since the day started, the most suspicious person has been Mockra. I'm all for voting early in the day and whatnot, but everything about his vote (reasoning, timing, subsequent defense of it) has a really bad smell to it.

There's no point in voting Fener, despite his protestations. If he's really a recruit, the other watch will almost certainly kill him off, if they can.

I don't like voting for vocal players early in the game, but something about Mockra is really not sitting right, and there's no obvious reason to think he would even be successfully lynched, so

Vote Mockra

[Eloth]

I can see the problems one would have with Mockra, the irregularities within his reasoning for voting Kalse, etc. However, I'm not in a hurry to lay down a vote on the first person to actually try to move away from Fener as other possible lynches. We have an idea what lynching Fener wound up doing, and we learned a great big ZERO from doing that, other than nobody died during the night.

Other people had some ideas and I'd like to hear them before laying down a vote.

[Ruse]

As is probably quite obvious i wouldnt be opposed to a mockra lynch, but i am still curious about the Fener thing especially the people saying categorically that we shouldnt lynch him, this just makes me suspicious.

[Eloth]

Why would the inquisition let the lynch go through this time, Ruse? That's my only problem with it, if they didn't let it go through last time, why this time?

[Ruse]

Because hes being a pain. Yesterday they had the risk of crippling a team, if he is a recruit then that risk isnt really there any more and he can be disposed of so we can more easily look for the people who actually matter