[foolio]

Does anyone else find it strange/sloppy that right before fiddlers deck reading keneb and Blistig are friends and sitting in a bar talking about another fist that drinks too much with his troops and how much they dislike him and how bad of an officers behavior this is. Then by the end of the book Blistig is doing the same thing and he and Keneb hate each other? It almost seemed to me that this was just sloppy writing and a lack of keeping notes on characters.
Kind of like in HOC cutter makes the observation that Nimander and the gang clearly had never had any weapons training. And then a couple books later through a POV scene you find out Nimander and the gang had recieved extreme weapons training from Andarist...

Not trying to be overly critical, love the books, but sometimes it just seems like we are not supposed to pay any attention to previous books, which the depth of the stories and the details are, to me, one of this series biggest assets. (dont even get me started about sinn)

This post has been edited by foolio: 18 February 2010 - 06:52 PM

[Blend]

 foolio, on 18 February 2010 - 06:51 PM, said:

Does anyone else find it strange/sloppy that right before fiddlers deck reading keneb and Blistig are friends and sitting in a bar talking about another fist that drinks too much with his troops and how much they dislike him and how bad of an officers behavior this is. Then by the end of the book Blistig is doing the same thing and he and Keneb hate each other? It almost seemed to me that this was just sloppy writing and a lack of keeping notes on characters.
Kind of like in HOC cutter makes the observation that Nimander and the gang clearly had never had any weapons training. And then a couple books later through a POV scene you find out Nimander and the gang had recieved extreme weapons training from Andarist...

Not trying to be overly critical, love the books, but sometimes it just seems like we are not supposed to pay any attention to previous books, which the depth of the stories and the details are, to me, one of this series biggest assets. (dont even get me started about sinn)

I'm fairly certain that Blistig was talking to someone other than Keneb about it, and was whining about how Keneb was being lax and such... Soooo, no, I didn't find it weird.

As for the Cutter thing, perception is just that, perception. Just because he THOUGHT they PROBABLY hadn't had any form of weapons training, doesn't mean he was right. This is something Erikson does to us a lot. It is meant to parallel the way we discover ancient history. Everyone has a different take on the same event, so when you're looking at what actually happened through historical accounts, it's almost too garbled to actually figure out with absolute certainty what actually happened. Personally, I enjoy that sense of uncertainty in his books, and knowing that I will never finish learning about the Malazan world, no matter how many times I read these books, I still run into things I had never seen, or considered important.

[Illuyankas]

Cutter probably saw their reluctance to fight for inexperience. Hell, they were the survivors, after all.

And Blistig fell into the trap he'd described like the morale-destroyed commander he was.

[foolio]

Quote

I'm fairly certain that Blistig was talking to someone other than Keneb about it, and was whining about how Keneb was being lax and such... Soooo, no, I didn't find it weird.

no it was he and keneb talking because then he asks keneb what it was like to be at the last reading, right?

[Blend]

 foolio, on 18 February 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

Quote

I'm fairly certain that Blistig was talking to someone other than Keneb about it, and was whining about how Keneb was being lax and such... Soooo, no, I didn't find it weird.

no it was he and keneb talking because then he asks keneb what it was like to be at the last reading, right?

Hrmmmm... Will have to dig up my book when I get home!

[foolio]

Yeah I am sorry. My books at home too. Will look at it when i get home. But I thought it was real strange last time I looked at it. I will feel real stupid if i am wrong.

[Silencer]

No, it was Keneb and another officer discussing Blistig. The other officer then asks Keneb what the reading was like. Blistig has been portrayed for quite a while now as an incompetent fool - Keneb later asks the Adjunct about dealing with him, and she says it will be done shortly (at the site of Gesler/Stormy's abduction). That is never shown to happen as the Nah'ruk turn up, and Keneb goes and gets himself incinerated...which is a BAD THING for the Bonehunters, that's for sure.

[amphibian]

 Silencer, on 18 February 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

That is never shown to happen as the Nah'ruk turn up, and Keneb goes and gets himself incinerated...which is a BAD THING for the Bonehunters, that's for sure.

You mean "Rannaled".

[D'rek]

foolio's right, it is Blistig and Keneb talking about Arbin.

Quote

'So where is the fool?'
Fist Keneb shrugged. 'Arbin prefers the company of heavies. The soldiers with dirt on their noses and dust storms in their skulls. The Fist plays knuckles with them, gets drunk with them, probably sleeps with some of them, for that matter.'
Blistig grunted as he sat down. 'And this is the proper way to earn respect?'
etc

page 104 in trade paperback

[HoosierDaddy]

 D, on 19 February 2010 - 05:42 AM, said:

foolio's right, it is Blistig and Keneb talking about Arbin.

Quote

'So where is the fool?'
Fist Keneb shrugged. 'Arbin prefers the company of heavies. The soldiers with dirt on their noses and dust storms in their skulls. The Fist plays knuckles with them, gets drunk with them, probably sleeps with some of them, for that matter.'
Blistig grunted as he sat down. 'And this is the proper way to earn respect?'
etc

page 104 in trade paperback

Why Blistig is an asshat, version 9.1. I hope that fuck face got smoked by the Nah'ruk. Odds are S.E. will save him and somehow make us tolerate him.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 19 February 2010 - 05:55 AM

[knight of shadows]

Why Blistig is an asshat, version 9.1. I hope that fuck face got smoked by the Nah'ruk. Odds are S.E. will save him and somehow make us tolerate him.
[/quote]

Yeah he will most likely save him
What would really suck though is if something happened to Tavore in the battle seeing as that would make Blistig the ranking officer. That would probably be the quickest way to kill him though I don't see the Bonehunters putting up with him for more than hour as high fist of the army. I have no supporting evidence I'm just saying this would suck.

[Tarcanus]

 amphibian, on 18 February 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

 Silencer, on 18 February 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

That is never shown to happen as the Nah'ruk turn up, and Keneb goes and gets himself incinerated...which is a BAD THING for the Bonehunters, that's for sure.

You mean "Rannaled".

wtf is Rannaled? I've seen it in a handful of topics, now, and feel likes it's forum slang that I missed the definition of.

[Illuyankas]

It's Bonehunters slang for what happens to you when, for example, you wander blindly over a cusser. From the hilarious end to Lieutenant Ranal's storied career back in HOC.

[foolio]

yep its page 92 of the hardback I believe. And I am not alltogether sure who Arbin is. Its almost as if the scene should have been keneb and Arbin talking about Blistig but it was the other way around.

[D'rek]

Well, I'm not sure Arbin's carousing with his soldiers is the same as Blistig's later on. From the sounds of it, I think Arbin is a soldier (maybe a heavy) that's been promoted up the ranks, so the troops he's hanging out with still remember him as their sergeant or even squad-mate. So they still know him well and when he's carousing with them it works for him because to them he's still one of their gang. Not that that necessarily does anything good for the respect he might get as a Fist.

Conversely, Blistig's cajoling with the soldiers is decribed as him going around to their campfires to tell them stories and join their conversations and them resenting him for it - this'd be because Blistig hasn't come through the ranks of the BHs and can't pull it off the way Arbin can. It is a bit hypocritical of Blistig to be saying it's not what a Fist should do and then later be doing it himself, but if Blistig is hypocritical that's no shocker. Plus, I figure Blistig mellowed out a bit during the comfy stay in Letheras but then became cynical and clinically depressed again once they were on the march and he had real responsibilities to ignore again.

D'rek, wishes Arbin had been Aragan instead...

[foolio]

fair enough D'rek. Thanks

[Tarcanus]

 Illuyankas, on 19 February 2010 - 02:04 PM, said:

It's Bonehunters slang for what happens to you when, for example, you wander blindly over a cusser. From the hilarious end to Lieutenant Ranal's storied career back in HOC.

Much thanks, Illy. It's about time I get around to a re-read.

[Abyss]

Re the officer's chat, even with the enmity between Blistig and the rest, they are still officers so still likely to associate.

[quote name='foolio' date='18 February 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1266519074' post='731591']
...Kind of like in HOC cutter makes the observation that Nimander and the gang clearly had never had any weapons training. ...

Not trying to be overly critical, love the books, but sometimes it just seems like we are not supposed to pay any attention to previous books, which the depth of the stories and the details are, to me, one of this series biggest assets. (dont even get me started about sinn)
[/quote]

That kind of switch-up is an SE specialty, and it's a deliberate play with perspective. Set up one pov, then prove it wrong. It's not an error, it's on purpose.

Nimander makes the point in TtH that the surviving Avalii Andii really didn't like what they had become to survive the Edur assault. Cutter was perceiving their reluctance and misunderstanding it.

[quote name='knight of shadows' date='19 February 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1266563114' post='731922']
Why Blistig is an asshat, version 9.1. I hope that fuck face got smoked by the Nah'ruk. Odds are S.E. will save him and somehow make us tolerate him.
[/quote]

Yeah he will most likely save him
What would really suck though is if something happened to Tavore in the battle seeing as that would make Blistig the ranking officer. That would probably be the quickest way to kill him though I don't see the Bonehunters putting up with him for more than hour as high fist of the army. I have no supporting evidence I'm just saying this would suck.
[/quote]


And i have even less supporting evidence except a suspicion that SE is setting up a situation where certain Bonehunters will either pull a coup or go awol specifically because the Nah'ruk situation puts Blistig in charge. Complete speculation/guesswork, but i'm figuring Tavore is abducted by the Unbound, Keneb and Arbin are dead and Lostara's position as 'aide' gives her no real authority, so Blistig ends up in charge. The alliance with the Perish falls apart because they were sworn to Tavore. The Letherii and Bolkando/Barghast escorts have no reason to stick around, and so Fid's squad and a few others who have been the focus of the story go solo to rescue Tavore. Probably along with STORMY AND GESLER'S AWE'SOME ARMY OF K'CHAIN LIZARD AWESOME.

By the end of TCG Kindly or Hellian beats Blistig to a bitter red pulp that smells vaguely of burnt wine and brings the rest of the army and escort forces running for a last minute save, thus fulfilling the separate speculation in HoC or RG that one of them will end up as a fist.

- Abyss, would pay money for an entire book of Hellian.

[Tarcanus]

What would be awesome is if Hellian is the one to uncover where Ardata has been hiding. She's always going on about her hatred of spiders, and there's never really been a reason for her to talk about it (plot-wise) since her background-revealing talk about the white paralts. What other reason would SE have her in the story, still complaining about spiders, when no one else is able to pin-point Ardata?

[Blend]

 Tarcanus, on 19 February 2010 - 05:53 PM, said:

What would be awesome is if Hellian is the one to uncover where Ardata has been hiding. She's always going on about her hatred of spiders, and there's never really been a reason for her to talk about it (plot-wise) since her background-revealing talk about the white paralts. What other reason would SE have her in the story, still complaining about spiders, when no one else is able to pin-point Ardata?

That would be a pretty epic scene right there!! Hehehe