[Adjutant Stormy~]

For the average consumer, people purchase things largely based on:
1) Marketing
2) Is it cool?
3) Ease of use
4) Usefulness

IMHO in that order.

For people with aptitude, at least technologically, it is the inverse.

While APPLE has a draconian EULA for most of their hardware, you can hack it just the same. Jailbreaking iPhones, installing alternate operating systems on your Mac, various (and pretty fucking cool) hardhacks on the hardware, like the internal accelerometer, and whatnot. While it DOES technically violate your EULA, if you have warranty problems, you can usually reverse the hack and then get service. And I agree with Tehol here, in that while there's Mac on PC hate, which is publicized and criticized, there is an equal and opposite amount of PC on Mac hate. See the current thread.

INSTALL LINUX, PROBLEM SOLVED.

This post has been edited by Adjutant Stormy: 25 February 2010 - 07:55 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Here's my take on the mac/PC debate. I have a mac issued to me from a school. I love it, it works great, despite not having ANY software updates in the last 4 years. All I use it for is the internet and word processing, and it's great. However, keep in mind it was also free.

When it came time to actually BUY a laptop for the wife, we bought a PC. Why? Because for comparable specs the macs were several hundred dollars more expensive. It was an easy decision.

I don't get how PC fanboys love to talk about how they can swap out parts on their computer. Do people do this a lot? I have no desire to customize the guts of my computer. Of course, this is partially a result of my own technological ignorance, but still, buy a good computer to begin with, maybe you won't need to change everything about it.

Bottom line is, free macs are great. If it's coming out of my pocket though, it's a PC.

And I am also so tired of hearing EITHER side of the hipster mac user VS. nerd chic PC user debate. Both sides need to get over themselves. Your computer does not make you cooler. Everyone who has different preferences from you are not sheeple.

This post has been edited by Raymond Luxury Yacht: 25 February 2010 - 09:44 PM

[Kanubis]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 25 February 2010 - 09:44 PM, said:

I don't get how PC fanboys love to talk about how they can swap out parts on their computer. Do people do this a lot? I have no desire to customize the guts of my computer. Of course, this is partially a result of my own technological ignorance, but still, buy a good computer to begin with, maybe you won't need to change everything about it.

I honestly do this. I enjoy it. I am, however, a raging nerd.

And Tehol, while I'm admitting that I'm a raging nerd, I see you point out that the aminosity on this particular forum usually comes from the PC crowd towards MACS. As a nerd of stunning experience, I have been a member of a horrible amount of forums and I was realting what I have, in general, seen across the board.

Incidently, I like Macs. One day I'll have a Mac to go with my PC. The only bit of the issue that starts to irritate me is when people get all anti-Microsoft (especially people who write m$ - seriously, it's about as mature and amsuing as still calling people 'pooface' ten years after you leave primary school) while not acknowleging that Apple are hardly angels.

Mind you, Google trump them both in direspecting their users, but that's another story...

[Obdigore]

So, I live in the 'trendy' part of Minneapolis. (That itself is a joke, but I digress). And I look in every coffee shop window, while driving from my downtown job to my house, and what do I see? Why, Guys with 8 different colors in their hair, that could hold their ipod in their earlobes, glued to their Mac. Why? Because 'Macs are hip' and microsoft is the big 'corporate greed thats destroying the world. Unlike starbucks, apparently (digressing again).

My Stepmother teaches piano and writes (and is published) christain music. She uses an IBM. In fact, she has this awesome program (no I do not know the name of) that, using a speaker, maps out what you play on the piano in a digital music sheet. I'm sure macs can do it too, but Tehol, your 'experience' is the antithesis of mine. I work in the Tech Field, and when looking for a different job a couple years ago, I interveiwed at a magazine company. They all had Macs, and wanted someone with PC experience to come in and redo their entire network as a PC network, to get them off Macintosh. The Hospital (at least ER) has some nice Green-Screen PC's in each room that the doctor or nurse can pull up my file on, or update things, or put in prescriptions. All without a Mac.

Both Apple and Microsoft are evil, money grubbing douche bags. The only reason Macs are as popular as they are right now, is the 'Hip' factor.

That isn't to say I hate them. The Ipod is a good little thing. I don't have an Iphone and am looking at getting a Droid Phone over one, but that is personal preference.

My biggest gripe is that you, as it was previously written, MUST suck at the Mac tit if you purchase Apple. It dosen't have to be that way.

[teholbeddict]

Well Obdi this seems to be pick on Tehol day for you and that's fine, not sure why experience needed quotation marks, and I never said that there are no hospitals or medical facilities who use PC. Yes I do frequent Starbucks yes I own several Mac products and I'm not about to start apologizing for it. My point though is that I didn't buy my Mac just to be trendy, I bought it because it suited my needs and that is why I think alot of other people buy them . I completely respect you guys preferring PC over Mac, clearly it is more suited to your needs, that doesn't mean that Macs are only for those who want to look good while using one. The fact that I like Starbucks coffee, frequent trendy shops and own a Mac doesn't mean I am somehow unable to make an informed decision about my purchases. I don't get this mentality that someone who (heaven forbid) chooses a Mac over PC is doing so just to be trendy. Oh and just so you know there are plenty of people using PC laptops at Starbucks too, the establishment you choose to buy your coffee at has nothing to do with which laptop you buy.


@kanubis I definitely see your point. This is really the only internet board I frequent, so I was basing my statement off of what I've seen here. I see where you were coming from now.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

By this point it's as trendy to be anti-Mac as it is to be pro-Mac.

[alt146]

@RLY - I'm not one of those guys that feels the need to continuously upgrade their computers whenever new tech comes out, but I do use (and enjoy) the freedom that comes with being able to work on your PC yourself.

Whenever I buy a new PC, I can pore over specs and find the config that's the best value for money and the best suited to what I need.
If something breaks, I can fix it myself, or at least not struggle to find someone who can fix it for me. Which is a huge problem here in South Africa, since there are only two Mac repair centres in the country.
If I feel my PC could do with a slight power boost and I have a couple of bucks spare, I can slot in better RAM modules or another harddrive myself. Granted that's more difficult with a laptop, but at least when you want to buy one you will find a configuration that works for you.

Most people aren't bothered by stuff like that, but for me it's a big deal.

[Kanubis]

teholbeddict, on 26 February 2010 - 01:12 AM, said:

@kanubis I definitely see your point. This is really the only internet board I frequent, so I was basing my statement off of what I've seen here. I see where you were coming from now.

Ah well, us Malazan fans are a superior breed to most of the internet detritus of course

Still capable of arguing it seems, but it's still the internet I guess...

[Yellow]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 25 February 2010 - 09:44 PM, said:

When it came time to actually BUY a laptop for the wife, we bought a PC. Why? Because for comparable specs the macs were several hundred dollars more expensive. It was an easy decision.

I don't get how PC fanboys love to talk about how they can swap out parts on their computer. Do people do this a lot? I have no desire to customize the guts of my computer. Of course, this is partially a result of my own technological ignorance, but still, buy a good computer to begin with, maybe you won't need to change everything about it.

RLY, I know you're generally talking about laptops, but still. If price is ever an issue for you when you buy a computer, you should definitely look into building your own. You can save an absolute fortune. Sure, that package from Dell looks to be a bargain, but if you actually delve into the specs, there's usually something missing (usually the graphics card), while you're paying over the top for ten times the hard drive space you'll ever need, and you're throwing away that monitor you have because there's a new one on its way, whether you want it or not.

Plus with these bits of kit, if you ever did want to upgrade, then you'd find that your motherboard probably can't handle a decent graphics card or RAM increase.

I know it seems a bit of a ball-ache, but if you spend two weeks researching parts before you buy (and ok, you will probably need a friend's help to build it if it's your first time), you can have a really good machine for your money... and you'll know what your options are if you want to upgrade stuff next time. This applies to laptops in a more limited extent, but there's still options out there.

PS - on the Apple front, I have a 64 gig iPod Touch. It was expensive and I love it. But if it came down to Mac vs PC, I would definitely go PC every time. Money, plus there's more software out there.

This post has been edited by Yellow: 26 February 2010 - 08:40 AM

[Obdigore]

Really KalamMekhar, a negrep because why? You don't post in the thread, you apparently don't disagree with what I said, since you didn't write anything in when you negrepped. Why did you negrep me?

@Tehol. Pick on Tehol day? What are you talking about? I disagree with what you wrote, and posted why and how. Why are you taking this so personally? Is it because I completely hit the mark despite how much you wish to deny it? You spend more money for less hardware to purchase from a Brand you like. Good for you.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 26 February 2010 - 02:51 PM

[KalamMekhar]

read your post and you can see why, could be a little bit less of an ass when responding to people's posts, and darn, i didnt fill out the little box to tell you why.

i have no experience with macs, so why should i post about em? People have reasons as to why they buy macs, and its not just always to be cool as you seem to think.

[teholbeddict]

Obdigore, on 26 February 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Really KalamMekhar, a negrep because why? You don't post in the thread, you apparently don't disagree with what I said, since you didn't write anything in when you negrepped. Why did you negrep me?

@Tehol. Pick on Tehol day? What are you talking about? I disagree with what you wrote, and posted why and how. Why are you taking this so personally? Is it because I completely hit the mark despite how much you wish to deny it? You spend more money for less hardware to purchase from a Brand you like. Good for you.

Obdi I am not going to waste time arguing with you, I know by now there's no point. I took it personally because your post was rude and had a very personal tone to it. I am not trying to make this personal I have been talking about the fact that not everyone buys a Mac to look cool and the uses for Macs. No you did not hit the mark, and how I choose to spend my money is none of your business. Mac suits my needs for work, that is one of the primary reasons I bought my Mac products. The iPhone happens to be one of the best phones on the market, even people who hate Mac agree with that. I bought it because it's a good phone and works well in conjunction with the rest of my stuff. If you want to buy PC and think it's better than good for you, but please don't make snide remarks about people sitting in Starbucks on their Macs because they chose to buy something else.

Edit: Now please lets get back on topic, this has actually been a good discussion for the most part.

This post has been edited by teholbeddict: 26 February 2010 - 02:59 PM

[Obdigore]

KalamMekhar, on 26 February 2010 - 02:55 PM, said:

read your post and you can see why, could be a little bit less of an ass when responding to people's posts, and darn, i didnt fill out the little box to tell you why.

i have no experience with macs, so why should i post about em? People have reasons as to why they buy macs, and its not just always to be cool as you seem to think.

There you go! You expressed your opinion in the discussion forums!

I'm so proud of you!

@Tehol - I don't disagree that either the Ipod or the Iphone are nice little devices. If you cannot see that it is 'trendy' and 'hip' to buy a Mac at this point, then you are wandering around with your eyes closed. Can you admit that there is, in fact, a large portion of Mac Users who ONLY (and I am not saying this is you) purchased a Mac because it was hip/trendy? I do agree that some fields are so entrenched in Macs (like architecture) that you have to use one to be able to communicate with other firms, which is why I did not disagree with that part of your post.

Frankly, if you post your personal experiences, I am unsure how me posting mine when they differ from yours is a personal attack, but if you want to be that touchy go right ahead.

[teholbeddict]

I'm not saying there aren't any people who buy Macs because it's the trendy thing to do. You guys are making it seem like the majority of people are doing that though. So I guess there must be a hell of a lot of trendy people out there willing to waste money if they are managing to keep Apple afloat. That's quite the devotion to being cool if you want to spend thousands of dollars just to look good. I mean afterall those of us buying them because we need them are in the minority.

I guess all the university labs that have Macs are doing so to be cool as well. It strikes me as odd that they would buy the more expensive product just to be cool if they knew PC was just as good or better and would be half the cost. Nevermind all of the professionals, or professors who walk around with Macs. My point is that there will always be people who buy trendy things, I'm sure there are people who buy a more expensive PC to be trendy to. Don't pigeon hole everyone, and make it seem like the people who buy them because it suits their needs are in the minority. If Apple was selling products only because they were trendy I doubt they would have been able to continue to be as successful as they are. If I buy something and it sucks, I'm not going to buy something from that company again. There has to be more than the trend factor for people to keep forking over their money.

[Obdigore]

Actually, Apple sells/gives Mac's to schools at a much reduced or free price, so that the schools use them and train the children on Macs.

Also, Apple should have crashed and burned in '97, but Microsoft kept them afloat. My assumption is, and the article states, that the most likely reason Microsoft did it is to avoid antitrust charges.
http://www.nytimes.c...ml?pagewanted=1

[Cougar]

teholbeddict, on 26 February 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

...So I guess there must be a hell of a lot of trendy people out there willing to waste money if they are managing to keep Apple afloat. That's quite the devotion to being cool if you want to spend thousands of dollars just to look good....There has to be more than the trend factor for people to keep forking over their money.

It's not spending 1000s to be cool it's spending extra to be cool, moreover the entire fashion industry, sport's car market, jewel trade etc are predicated on the idea that there a loads of people out there who will spend vast sums of money to look good over mere functionality. If part of buying an Apple wasn't an idea of image then Apple wouldn't spend so much money creating a hipster brand would they. They wouldn't have such homogenous designs which look 'Apple' and people wouldn't be ripping off the signature designs of ipods and Macs left right and centre.

Tehol's reasons for buying a Mac are her own, and I'm sure she has no reason to lie. However, I feel you're fooling yourself if you think that vast amount of Apple's market share isn't at least as reliant on their image as their functionality.

Mod cat @Obdigore, stop getting upset at neg rep, people can dish it out to whom ever they want whenever they like without being berated for it. If someone negs you, asssume they didn't like your post.

[teholbeddict]

Well on the note of copying Apple's style, a question for the PC fans out there.... does anyone have any opinion or anything to say about the fact that Microsoft seems to have borrowed pretty liberally from Mac OS X for some of Windows 7? I'm not trying to be snide here, I'm just asking. I don't think there can be any denying they've done it, because I've seen windows 7 and some of the features looks suspiciously like those that have been available on my Mac for a long time.

[cerveza_fiesta]

@OP

I see the ad thing as something nobody in their right mind would do....but if you need a mac product that desperately and can't wait a few months to save up money for the full price, then you deserve what you get.

Macs are already pretty locked down software/hardware wise so its nothing new.

===========================

@mac PC discussion

I think the majority of people just buy what they like.

I would argue my sister in law (who works in fashion and uses a computer for facebook and skype) bought a mac to be trendy.

She represents a minority though, and she would buy anything to be trendy.

All my other mac-using friends (who represent a majority imo) use macs because they genuinely like the interface and the general layout. Or they do a shitload of photo / home studio music editing and appreciate performance of those programs on a mac.

That said, I would genuinely love to see it proven that "macs are better at multimedia and photo editing" in a conclusive benchmark test between MS operating system and Mac OS. I hear that pro-mac argument ALL THE TIME, but have never seen a single study that gives the claim credibility.

Having been brought up using PCs I can't stand anything else.

And the thought of not being able to switch out my gfx card, harddrive, ram, etc... turns me off the brand entirely.

Plus much of the work I do, plus servers at work etc... are all integrated with MS stuff, so switching would be a huge roadblock to my work

[Obdigore]

teholbeddict, on 26 February 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

Well on the note of copying Apple's style, a question for the PC fans out there.... does anyone have any opinion or anything to say about the fact that Microsoft seems to have borrowed pretty liberally from Mac OS X for some of Windows 7? I'm not trying to be snide here, I'm just asking. I don't think there can be any denying they've done it, because I've seen windows 7 and some of the features looks suspiciously like those that have been available on my Mac for a long time.

Every single product borrows the 'best' of what their competitors have to offer. Cars, Clothes, Video Games, Computers, Movies, Music. They all try to make theirs the best they can be, and part of that includes focus groups that come in and share their opinion with the company about what they like/dislike about any related product they may have experienced.

@Mod-Cat Cougar - I am unclear on why someone can neg/pos rep me at any time, but I cannot ask them why if they have not posted in the thread not posted anything on the rep? PM me please? I even avoided calling him a chicken-shit for not speaking his opinion. PS - Rep should be disabled in the discussion forums!

[Cougar]

Obdigore, on 26 February 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

@Mod-Cat Cougar - I am unclear on why someone can neg/pos rep me at any time, but I cannot ask them why if they have not posted in the thread not posted anything on the rep? PM me please? I even avoided calling him a chicken-shit for not speaking his opinion. PS - Rep should be disabled in the discussion forums!

How unsubtle, saying you aren't going to call someone chicken shit it still calling them. Your tone was agressive and inappropriate - asking him is fine, berating him is not. Unfortunately it's all areas or nothing on the rep, nowt to be done about it.