[Darkwatch]

Since the early 2000, Apple has been on a long rise. It's a company everyone is keeping an eye on for its slick marketing.
Part of that marketing has been essentially a hip lifestyle look, and trying to be different, a cool corporation.

As a computer user I've been avoiding Apple products for the last decade. Not only do I find their products sub-par in terms of quality I find their interfaces annoying.
The only Apple product I've used consistently has been Quicktime (which I dl cracked so I don't get iTunes or anything else), and even that has been going down in the last two years.

I find Apple as a company suffocating. You buy an iPod, you get iTunes, which installs Quicktime and Safari. You buy a Mac computer and you're basically stuck with mac hardware, and servicing, shopping around isn't an option.

While I was reading through a Cracked article today, which basically just agreed with my point of view (having read about this all before), there was something that Apple is preparing to do that I did not know about.
That is this:

Quote

Apple Prepares to Rock the Market with Hardware Subsidizing Program

http://www.patentlya...a6126981970b-pi

The US Patent & Trademark Office published a patent application from Apple today that reveals various concepts behind a newly advanced service in development that entails subsidizing an incredible array of hardware from Apple. The hardware ranges from their sizzling hot iPhone to Apple TV - the set top box - to an actual television, notebook, iPod touch and more. The subsidization could also cover software from Apple or third party developers. What's the catch? You'll have to endure a very complicated and savvy advertising scheme that makes sure that you're paying attention. If not, the system can freeze the user out until compliance is met. This isn't for everyone, especially if ads in your face are something you want to avoid at all costs. But for the mass market, this is a whole new ballgame! Steve Jobs is noted in Apple's credits for this patent and we could be assured that his name all but tells us that this program isn't a fantasy of an Apple engineer. The implications of such a marketing move could rock the industry.

Advertising Architecture

http://www.patentlya...98714970c-800wi

Apple's patent FIG. 1 noted above is that of a block diagram of an exemplary architecture 100 (e.g., a hardware architecture) for presenting advertisements. An advertisement is defined as being one of the following: a commercial, some form of marketing information or a product/service announcement.
In exchange for allowing ads to run on your system, you may be able to receive a free operating system, OS upgrade, a new computer program or upgrade or even hardware could be free or heavily subsidized so long as you'll agree to view or listen to commercials.



So what kind of hardware are we talking about here? Well, Apple actually lists quite the range of possible candidates including portable and desktop computers, a network computer (NC), servers, electronics, iPods, game devices, mobile phones, wireless devices, email devices, personal digital assistants (Think iPod touch), embedded devices, televisions, set top boxes (Think Apple TV), etc.


Realistically however, I think that Apple would likely ease into this concept with perhaps a Mac mini and a lower end iPhone in 2010/2011. Another guess would be to subsidize a media tablet where magazine ads are a must. In 1984, Apple cleverly devised the "Take Macintosh out for a test drive" campaign to get people to try out this revolutionary computer. The subsidy concept is a modern day twist on that concept as a means of getting a lower end Apple product into more people's hands.


Advertising Enforcement


In implementations where the operating system or OPS-based advertising is provided using executable code in the system, it can be necessary or desirable to protect that code from being removed, rendered inoperative, bypassed or manipulated. As another example, the system can provide constant or repeated monitoring of whether the system presents the advertisement(s) as scheduled. If non-presentation is detected, the system can invoke one or more enforcement routines to seek compliance with the advertisement presentation schedule. Such enforcement routines can include, but are not limited to, disabling the system in whole or in part, reporting the issue to a responsible party, invoking an alternative way of presenting the advertisement (such as by audio when visual presentation is impeded), or by registering the non-compliance in a log that can later be used in a follow-up process.

In other words, Apple is going to ensure advertisers that there'll be no way for users to get around playing their ads. In addition, Apple can further determine whether a user pays attention to the advertisement. The determination can include performing, while the advertisement is presented, an operation that urges the user to respond; and detecting whether the user responds to the performed operation. If the response is inappropriate or nonexistent, the system will go into lock down mode in some form or other until the user complies. In the case of an iPod, the sound could be disconnected rendering it useless until compliance is met. For the iPhone, no calls will be able to be made or received.

In the case of a desktop or notebook, the UI and its components (e.g., menu bars, icons, etc.) may be faded, darkened, brightened, blurred, distorted or otherwise visually modified during the initial state (or while the advertisement is being presented) so as to emphasize that the desktop UI is temporarily inactive.

[...]

Enabling/Disabling System

http://www.patentlya...27019970b-800wi

Apple's patent FIG. 3 is a flow chart that illustrates an exemplary method of operations (300). For example, the operations can be performed on the computer device of FIG. 2. These operations relate to the presentation of advertising content and the enabling/disabling of a function in the operating system.


In some implementations where the computer device is an iPhone or iPod, the user may be prompted to press a certain button or keypad key in order to confirm that they are paying attention to the ads being presented. In one implementation, the approaches for verifying user presence can be made progressively more aggressive if the user has failed a previous test. For example, after the user fails the test the first time, the subsequent tests can be made to appear more frequently or at varying times. As another example, the test(s) can be made more subtle so as to render them more difficult to perceive, such as by reducing the size of a message box on the screen, or by making an audio prompt more similar to the advertisement in which it is inserted. If the user fails the test in step 314 the method 300 can perform step 310 over again; that is, the entire advertisement can be played again while the operating system maintains the function(s) in a disabled state.


In step 308, it is determined whether the user takes an extension. The user has the option to delay the presentation of advertisement content by using the available time extensions. For example, in a desktop computer, the user can select one of the controls 215 to choose to watch the advertisement content immediately, or to delay the presentation by using the available time extensions.

At step 312, the user has chosen to use a time extension and extra time is granted. In implementations of the method 300 where the user is allowed to accrue time extension credits, this step may also deduct credits from the users' total amount of accrued time extension credits. The method 300 then proceeds to repeat step 304.


Buy Time and Opt out of Ads Option


In FIG. 2 above, you'll note step 320. In this step, it is determined whether the user chooses to pre-buy usage time. For example, the user may volunteer to watch the presentation of additional advertising content in order to accrue time extension credits. In another example, the user may have an option to pay a fee in exchange for the temporary or permanent advertisement-free use of the computer device. If the user chooses to pre-buy time, then the extra time is granted at step 312. Otherwise, if the user opts not to pre-buy time, then the method repeats at step 304.


Apple credits CEO Steven Jobs, Freddy Anzures, Mike Matas, Gregory Christie and Patrick Coffman for patent application 20090265214, originally filed in April 2008.


Apple's patent FIGS. 4A through 4-D noted in the introduction depict exemplary screen shots of presenting advertisements in a user interface.

Source



So basically you have to pay a premium to not get your system locked because you don't want to sit through a party poker add that forces you to click it.
Creepier still is Mac supporters think this is great. It'll reduce mac costs and get macs into the hands of people who couldn't afford them before, because Macs cost too much.
Or you know those people could just keep buying PCs that cost less and have better and more hardware without the ads.

The troubling thing is, this program if ever it really does launch could be installed secretly in an update package for a program like iTunes you already have (like they did with Safari among other things) or directly to you iPhone as they've already put together a program that seeks out unlocked phones to disable them.
Then you'd have to pay on opt out fee or get Quick Time Event adds that lock down your computer (Macs mostly I suppose since they have to lock the source code, but there other ways of denying service without attacking code which could be used on PCs.)

[alt146]

Steve jobs is officially off his rocker, I think he's just upset that everyone panned the iPad. While I'll admit macs are good for some things, mainly video and media related tasks, they are pretty restricting. There's tons of alternatives for any Mac product you can think of, I seriously think Apple will lose a large deal of the market if they go down this road. Or lose all but their most die-hard of supporters in exchange for customers who dont care what they have so long as it's cheap.

Personally I also avoid all things apple, I didnt buy an iPod specifically because I hate the way iTunes takes over your PC. I also used quicktime alternative until Mac shut it down, funny how you suddenly stopped finding .mov files after that happened

[Silencer]

Apple. Ugh. Their MP3's are cool, and that's about it.

Their computers are useless, overpriced, underpowered pieces of...I won't go into it, but you can get a much more powerful Windows-based computer for a lot less money. Now that Macs are using Intel processors, it's a bit better, but they're still lightyears behind in most ways. Even the argument that they're good for certain tasks is down purely to people's preference of their programs/interface. From a technical perspective a Windows computer can do a much better job of it.

It really is just a matter of brand loyalty beyond that. What you're used to, what you have to use (I know some schools over here get Macs put into them for a pittance, which is basically buying the kid's future brand loyalty...personally I think that's an underhanded tactic that is far worse than OMG M$ HAS MORE MARKET SHARE AND FORCES YOU TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER WHEN YOU FIRST GET THE COMPUTER OMGOMGOMG).

>.>

/bah

[Puck]

Silencer, on 17 February 2010 - 09:33 PM, said:

It really is just a matter of brand loyalty beyond that. What you're used to, what you have to use (I know some schools over here get Macs put into them for a pittance, which is basically buying the kid's future brand loyalty...personally I think that's an underhanded tactic that is far worse than OMG M$ HAS MORE MARKET SHARE AND FORCES YOU TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER WHEN YOU FIRST GET THE COMPUTER OMGOMGOMG).

Yeah, my uni also has only Macs, most profs are using Macs as well. Annoying. Granted, Photoshop works pretty good on them compared to my pc at home. But then, my pc just celebrated its fifth birthday and although PS doesn't work as smoothly, it is still faster when it comes to surfing the web and stuff than the Mac. I'm also avoiding all other things apple, if possible. Despite constantly getting rubbed in my nose how wonderful an iPod is. Though I'm curious what this campaign will bring about. I'd certainly rather have a functioning system rather than a Mac that's constantly screwing with me and my time.

[Macros]

my laptops over 5 years old, and bar the occasional blue screen when I'm running entirely too many applications.
I hate the apple software as its ridiculously invasive, my sisters an idiot who installed itunes once on both the home pc and my laptop, and months later I was still finding Iwhatever apps running in the background, complete bastard to get rid of.

I finid it amusing that Iusers hate M$, when, afaik, M$ bailed apple out twice in the past

[caladanbrood]

Ha, Apple so crazy... I have never bought an apple product, and never will. Too expensive, too on-craze, too expensive. And that makes me laugh quite a bit A phone that won't let you send or receive calls until you watch its advert? Madness.

[alt146]

Read a bit of discussion about this on another website, some people are speculating that it might be a cheap shot at Google's Chrome OS, which will be heavily web-based and therefore likely to contain advertising. The bright side of this whole thing is that if Apple does get awarded the patent, they will legally force Windows and Linux to NOT make their products incredibly annoying

[dktorode]

I work on mac everyday... much better work flow from when i used Windoze.

[Gothos]

l2linux

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Wow, I never would have thought this forum would be chock so thoroughly full of mac-haters.

Macs are to computer systems like the Wii is to gaming systems. It's sleek, it's shiny, and it's dumbed down for the average moron consumer. Apple doesn't sell you products that you need, it sells you products you didn't know that you really really wanted.

And to be completely honest, this crap-ware shoveling technique is the only thing that kept them afloat during the dark days of the late 90s early 2000s. There is much justification for hating on the price tag, but the chief reason that apple hardware costs 20% more is because hardware quality control is an obsessive compulsion of Steve Jobs. This is obviously a double-edged sword, but it does mean that Apple backs their products with much stronger warranties, which I happen to love (since I have some kind of anti-machine karma).

And, to be fair, I'm a PC user, I lose an iPod every year, and my entire family owns macs (I own some too, but just the ancient models for collecting purposes and Oregon Trail 1).

And yes, Install Linux, Problem Solved.

[Silencer]

@Gothos, love the title. XD

I wouldn't say it's Mac hate, it's just lack of Mac fanboyism. They cost more - and yes, they have more 'quality' to their build...but so what? My old Windows desktop running Win '98 still works fine...wasn't anything wrong with the '95 one before that, either, except that '98 came along. I've got three laptops, and the only reason I've changed is due to XP -> Vista -> Win 7 and the need for a laptop for uni.
Sure, the DVD drive on my Sony Vaio broke after 3 years....but that's Sony - they were expected to have even more quality than Mac's back then (about 2 years ago now, that it broke). Five years ago I would have walked right past an Acer laptop...and yet here I am using one, nearly two years now, and it is perfectly fine, no real problems, and it was cheap, too, for the specs.

One could say that I don't need to upgrade at all, as I could just install new versions of Windows on the old hardware...but I'm a gamer and like my computers to be somewhat up-to-date, so it's just as easy to get a new one.

So where does Mac have the advantage, then, if Windows computers aren't breaking during their expected lifetime either? What a waste of money, especially when you are then also forced to use Mac software, too, due to your operating system, and there is a lot less of that around than there is Windows stuff. (Sure, Macs *can* run Windows stuff...like I want to run another program every time I need a particular app...the Mac interface just isn't worth it, I'm afraid...especially now with things like Aero, and programs like RocketDock/ObjectDock and Fences).

[chill]

Well, if this ad enforcing comes through, and I accidentally install it on my iPhone, I will readily crash the damned thing against a wall.
Hardware quality? Give me a break. The thing started crashing 4 months after I got it, and it's only getting worse. The only reason I'm still using it is because I'm short on cash, but I'll definitely take my old cell back, and find a quality music player with a large capacity. That doesn't force me to use that retarded iTunes.

And I didn't even buy the thing, I got it as a present.

I can't imagine people willingly buying not-so-useful gadgets that will throw ads in their faces and lock them out if they ignore them. Yes, iAnything is trendy and all, but I don't think being trendy is worth enduring commercial crap, and the quality isn't really spectacular.

[Shinrei]

1. Apple
2. Sony


Two companies whose products I will not buy.

[Cause]

whats wrong with sony?

[teholbeddict]

I really don't get the hate for all things Mac, I often wonder if all of the people bashing them so vhemently have even tried one. I'm admittedly a Mac junkie, I've got and iPhone, iMac, Macbook Air, and and iPod, but that's because I really do prefer them to PC, and yes I have tried PC's before. I find the opinion that people just buy Macs to look cool or to be part of a fad rather insulting. Clearly it must be more than that, very few people are going to spend thousands of dollars on a laptop just because they think it looks good. I would think that by the time you are ready to drop a couple of grand on something you would have researched it and there would be a reason for a person to buy it. We use Macs at work, because most orthopedic, diagnostic, imaging and measuring programs in my particular field are for Mac. My opthamologist also uses Mac for his diagnostic programs as well as for the desktops in his office. Most other medical professionals I know through work or just as aquaintances also use Mac. Before I decided to become a doctor I briefly pursued a degree in music and most programs for arranging, composition and editing were on Mac. I have two friends who are architects and they use Macs as well. So clearly there must be some use for Mac beyond the fact that it looks good and we all think we're cool because we own one.

It seems the primary complaint of the bashers is that Mac users are just hopping on the bandwagon and doing something because they see someone else has it. How is that any different than a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and bashing Macs for no reason other than someone else is doing it and it seems like the cool thing to do. Whenever I read one of these threads, there is very little justification for this all out hate. It's just I hate Macs, Apple sucks, they are garbage. If you are going to say that at least tell us why you feel the way you do and actually try one before you go around saying you hate it and it's a piece of crap.

End rant! Have a good day people!

[Kanubis]

Tehol, it's a bit innacurate to say that apple-bashing comes without any real explanation when the original post was a very specific example of an unpalatable Apple business strategy!

Personally, I have nothing against Macs, although I see tham as far more of a proffessional tool than a home tool (largely because of the specialist software you mention.) but this hating is VERY much a two-way street. You have to understand that there a lot of Mac users who will cast Microsoft as the devil at any opportunity and insist that every PC is a hotbed of festering viruses.

[teholbeddict]

Kanubis, on 25 February 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

Tehol, it's a bit innacurate to say that apple-bashing comes without any real explanation when the original post was a very specific example of an unpalatable Apple business strategy!

Personally, I have nothing against Macs, although I see tham as far more of a proffessional tool than a home tool (largely because of the specialist software you mention.) but this hating is VERY much a two-way street. You have to understand that there a lot of Mac users who will cast Microsoft as the devil at any opportunity and insist that every PC is a hotbed of festering viruses.

I was actually refering to some of the posts in between and many of the other anti-mac threads/posts that have appeared on the board, not just the OP. Sorry maybe I should have been more clear on that. Futhermore it's very rare for the Mac users on the board to start any kind of thread bashing PC. I'm not sure it's ever even happened, I don't remember seeing an I hate PC thread. I do understand that not all Mac users like Microsoft and will say so, and to some degree the virus issue is true. I guess my feeling is that if you don't like something don't use it, I just don't see the need to start an entire thread bashing something or this ridiculous hate of all things Mac.

Didn't mean to derail your post DW, it's just that sometimes the anti-mac thing seems a bit silly and there seem to be so many of these threads. Sorry about that.

This post has been edited by teholbeddict: 25 February 2010 - 04:45 PM

[Darkwatch]

teholbeddict, on 25 February 2010 - 02:53 PM, said:

I really don't get the hate for all things Mac, I often wonder if all of the people bashing them so vhemently have even tried one. I'm admittedly a Mac junkie, I've got and iPhone, iMac, Macbook Air, and and iPod, but that's because I really do prefer them to PC, and yes I have tried PC's before. I find the opinion that people just buy Macs to look cool or to be part of a fad rather insulting. Clearly it must be more than that, very few people are going to spend thousands of dollars on a laptop just because they think it looks good. I would think that by the time you are ready to drop a couple of grand on something you would have researched it and there would be a reason for a person to buy it. We use Macs at work, because most orthopedic, diagnostic, imaging and measuring programs in my particular field are for Mac. My opthamologist also uses Mac for his diagnostic programs as well as for the desktops in his office. Most other medical professionals I know through work or just as aquaintances also use Mac. Before I decided to become a doctor I briefly pursued a degree in music and most programs for arranging, composition and editing were on Mac. I have two friends who are architects and they use Macs as well. So clearly there must be some use for Mac beyond the fact that it looks good and we all think we're cool because we own one.

It seems the primary complaint of the bashers is that Mac users are just hopping on the bandwagon and doing something because they see someone else has it. How is that any different than a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon and bashing Macs for no reason other than someone else is doing it and it seems like the cool thing to do. Whenever I read one of these threads, there is very little justification for this all out hate. It's just I hate Macs, Apple sucks, they are garbage. If you are going to say that at least tell us why you feel the way you do and actually try one before you go around saying you hate it and it's a piece of crap.

End rant! Have a good day people!

I whole heartedly disagree.
People are morons that will sink as much money as they can into trends.
The entire fashion industry is based on this, and a good part of the music industry.
I'd say most of the consumer culture we have is based on that.

Mac has it's uses I'll give you that.
What I don't like about mac is the following:

1. The price. For half the price of a mac I shopped around for the parts to my latest computer. My computer has more disc space, ram, processing power, great graphic capacity and flexibility and is as stable as any mac system.

2. I can shop around for my parts and my software. Something that was impossible for macs before and is still incredibly difficult now. I feel that if I buy Mac I'm putting on shackles to consume from the mac tit. iTunes, mac authorized retailers, app store only, etc.
I didn't pay 2000$ to be told that I have to pay more over priced software for my machine.

3. I genuinely dislike the User Interface on macs. I find them counter intuitive.
We had them in high-school and working on them was a giant pain. Even have one here at Uni in the program study room. For some reason it refuse to let you make a window full screen. It constantly lost documents, and had trouble surfing the internet, some programs just refused to start. Didn't take long to figure out that everyone was in line for the PC while the mac sat there available, it didn't work. Not to mention the PC was older and was still faster than the Mac.

4. While they are getting more flexible and compatible they're still light years behind PCs.
The fact that I can install different OS' on my PC without it being a problem or requiring a special program is one example.
Another is again the fact of needing iTunes and other MacTM products, it's difficult to use other software or products.

5. Things like the patented program above.
Forcing ads on people and disabling the device if they don't act how you want them to act?
That's a bit too much. If you want to pay the same price as a PC for a Mac (even thought the PC has outperforming hardware) you get stuck with adds. Unless of course you pay a premium to get it without the ads.
If Dell pulled this kind of stuff everybody would boycott the company.

That's why I don't like Macs.


Also Kanubis is right, the hate is two way.
When my sister bought a Mac she became insufferable for a year.
She was preening and throwing insults at anyone not enlightened enough to be using a mac.
I hadn't even gone after the mac, I was indifferent, sure I didn't like them, but I'm not using it right, it wasn't affecting my life.
Well I was wrong it was, in the form of my sister's smug hipster attitude about her computer.
Also at school a lot of people use PC and Mac.
Last week the teacher was talking about systems integration and said sometime's it could be like changing between PC to Mac or Mac to PC in terms of adaptation.
All the PC users in the room kept taking notes.
Then:
"God forbid we'd switch to PC."
"Oh yeah, that would be terrible."
Etc...

The Mac users started a circle jerk in the middle of class. Not the time nor the place to discuss your computer preference.



Tehol, don't take this wrong, you're not a Mac hipster, you don't go around like it was the second coming. You admit that Apple products can have faults (see the iPad).
Unfortunately you are not the vocal group within the Mac user base.

PCs aren't perfect either, nothing is.

[teholbeddict]

Okay I don't agree with alot of what you have to say there, and I refuse to belive the majority of Mac users are buying them just to be or look cool. A Mac Book Pro will run you anywhere from $1199 -2400 or more, my Mac Air cost me two grand, I just think when you are spending that type of money for 99.9 percent of people it has to be more than just the cool factor. There has to be something that makes it worth your while, whether it be for professional or personal use. I can definitely say that half of the programs I use for work would not be available for PC. The imaging, diagnostic, and measuring capabilities are way beyond those of anything being offered for PC which is why they are being phased out in alot of medical environments. I don't really view Mac as being light years behind PC either, and the operating system is ridiculously user friendly so it's great for new users as well.

I can agree to disagree though, and as you say I am not a Mac Hipster, I'm also not a hater. I am of the mindset that if you don't like something, don't buy it, don't use it and get on with life. I just don't see the need for all of this hate, I don't spend time dwelling on stuff that I don't like, I've got betting things to do with my time. I think some of what you are saying in that post is coming from the fact that you are a PC fan and really dislike the attitudes of some people who have Macs as opposed to the product itself. I can respect that and I will also accept that on this subject we will just have to agree to disagree. I'm not into fighting about it, and I do thank you for at least listing some reasons. I would just hope that before people bash something they know what they are talking about and actually use it before coming out and blasting it. Mac has probles yes and so do PC's but I doubt very many of the people who bash Macs have ever touched one or used one for anything. Don't knock it before you try it. If you try it and don't like it that's fair enough, but I have no respect for the I hate it statements with nothing to back them up. If you really dislike something that much at least have some reason or justification for it. I'm done discussing the topic now and will let you get back to the topic of the original post, just wanted to give my two cents, and throw some support in for the sane, non-hating, Mac users on this board and in the RL who don't just get it for the cool factor.

[alt146]

I agree with a lot of what Darkwatch says. I haven't had much experience with Macs themselves, the once or twice I've tried them I wasn't blown away the way I was told I would be. I've never been that interested in buying one myself mainly because of the price. I dislike being told what I can and cannot do with my computer, or being able to customise it the way I want it, both in terms of hardware and in terms of software. Being told I have to pay extra for less freedom doesnt go down well with me.

They are great at some things - video editting, graphic design, sound creation etc, no-one is denying that. But 90% of the people with Macs that I have met use them for exactly the same things I use my PC for and a lot of them bought it simply for the image that comes with it. Which is irritating and sometimes induces an irrational response in the opposite extreme, which is where a good deal of Mac bashing comes from, I will admit.

My main gripe with Mac though is really iTunes. I installed it for some reason several years ago, and decided I still preferred winamp. But when I tried to uninstall it, it refused to go away. Someone at Mac decided that no-one could ever possibly want to take iTunes off their computer and made it annoyingly difficult to get rid of. The same for the Quicktime player. The whole thing really irritated me. I'm just not a fan of the way they do things and the approach that they take.

Yes, they do make some good products - there is reason the iPhone is still considered one of the best phones in the world, despite it's ridiculous pricetag. There's a reason the word iPod is synonomous with MP3 Player. But it doesnt mean that every product they make is the absolute be-all and end-all of whatever category the occupy and a lot of people devotees will get extremely upset if you even suggest as much.