[Goaswerfraiejen]

I haven't seen a thread on this topic, and the search function didn't seem to yield any hits, and so I apologize if it's been mentioned before.


I'm a little over halfway through DoD (it finally arrived recently), and I've been wondering about the K'Chain Sky-Keeps. More specifically, since DoD has revealed the

Spoiler

draconic

form of the Rooted, I've started wondering about the relationship between Moon's Spawn, Rooted, and Sky-Keeps. Now, here's the pattern of reasoning that I've been pondering, followed by my question.

1.) "Sky-Keeps" is presumably a generic and/or anachronistic term for K'Chain "hives" (for lack of a better alternative term).
2.) If we take the "Sky-Keep" appellation seriously, then these presumably fly.
3.) If the Rooted are Sky-Keeps, then they can fly.
4.) The name "Rooted," however, implies either
4.a.) They cannot fly, or
4.b.) They can fly, but have been landed which might also imply
4.b.1.) They are only called "Rooted" once landed, and/or
4.b.2.) The "Rooting" might well be a permanent affair (e.g. "to set down roots").
5.) We know that Moon's Spawn was a K'Chain flying fortress.
6.) We know that the Rooted are, at worst, exclusive to the Che'Malle (at best, used by the Nah'ruk as well).


Now, some questions:

Q1: Is it mentioned somewhere earlier that the K'Chain Che'Malle and Nah'ruk, among their other differences, employ different types of keeps? I vaguely recall something to that effect, but I might be confusing that question with the Nah'ruk technological predispositions.

Q2: I do not recall any descriptions of Moon's Spawn resembling a Rooted--do you? All I recall is a pitted mountain-sized slab of rock. While the size fits, and the pits and other deteriorations might account for the blobbish-shape, the difference still seems pretty stark. If we can't find any Rooted-like descriptions of Moon's Spawn, then this presumably reinforces the idea that the Rooted and the Sky-Keeps are different things.

Q3: Is it said anywhere which breed of K'Chain built Moon's Spawn (MOI seems like a good candidate book for that, IIRC)? I'm sure we're told, and that answer would pretty much obliterate the need for anything else that I've written here.



If your answers spoil the second half of DoD, then I'd appreciate a verbal warning (no real need for tags). Beyond that, thanks for your time and patience!

This post has been edited by Goaswerfraiejen: 12 February 2010 - 05:55 PM

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I just came across a line in DoD that is important to these musings:

Spoiler

She [Gunth Mach] remembered entire mountain ranges preserved as if they were works of art, at least until their value as quarries for sky-keeps was realized... (495)

The question, then, takes a new form:

Q2a: Are Sky-Keeps identical to those mountains, or were the mountains carved down to stumps to make the Sky-Keeps?

The impression that I get is the latter, which would leave my earlier musings more or less intact, although the former option would largely obliterate them. It also makes a little more sense given the context of that sentence.


Regardless, the Che'Malle/Nah'ruk ship distinction still holds. What, if anything, is it?

This post has been edited by Goaswerfraiejen: 12 February 2010 - 05:56 PM

[Tarcanus]

Goaswerfraiejen, on 12 February 2010 - 05:36 PM, said:

I haven't seen a thread on this topic, and the search function didn't seem to yield any hits, and so I apologize if it's been mentioned before.


I'm a little over halfway through DoD (it finally arrived recently), and I've been wondering about the K'Chain Sky-Keeps. More specifically, since DoD has revealed the

Spoiler

draconic

form of the Rooted, I've started wondering about the relationship between Moon's Spawn, Rooted, and Sky-Keeps. Now, here's the pattern of reasoning that I've been pondering, followed by my question.

1.) "Sky-Keeps" is presumably a generic and/or anachronistic term for K'Chain "hives" (for lack of a better alternative term).I think you're thinking too much. Sky Keep seems to imply a fortress of some sort and not a place to live(Although the Andii adapted Moon's Spawn into living quarters) Unless the Nah'ruk ONLY lived in the keeps once they were invented.
2.) If we take the "Sky-Keep" appellation seriously, then these presumably fly.They do. Moon's Spawn is a Sky Keep and it flies. We have also seen many Sky Keeps in the Imperial Warren flying.
3.) If the Rooted are Sky-Keeps, then they can fly.If we debunk your point #1 than this seems ridiculous as, in the name, it's call 'Rooted' as in, probably can't fly(Especially considering the machinery in the Rooted).
4.) The name "Rooted," however, implies either
4.a.) They cannot fly, or
4.b.) They can fly, but have been landed which might also imply
4.b.1.) They are only called "Rooted" once landed, and/or
4.b.2.) The "Rooting" might well be a permanent affair (e.g. "to set down roots").
5.) We know that Moon's Spawn was a K'Chain flying fortress.Of course. Moon's Spawn is a Sky Keep.
6.) We know that the Rooted are, at worst, exclusive to the Che'Malle (at best, used by the Nah'ruk as well).


Now, some questions:

Q1: Is it mentioned somewhere earlier that the K'Chain Che'Malle and Nah'ruk, among their other differences, employ different types of keeps? I vaguely recall something to that effect, but I might be confusing that question with the Nah'ruk technological predispositions.I can't recall anything either, other than the Sky Keeps that are found in the Imperial Warren supposedly being Nah'ruk.

Q2: I do not recall any descriptions of Moon's Spawn resembling a Rooted--do you? All I recall is a pitted mountain-sized slab of rock. While the size fits, and the pits and other deteriorations might account for the blobbish-shape, the difference still seems pretty stark. If we can't find any Rooted-like descriptions of Moon's Spawn, then this presumably reinforces the idea that the Rooted and the Sky-Keeps are different things.Moon's Spawn is a Sky Keep, it won't be described as a Rooted.

Q3: Is it said anywhere which breed of K'Chain built Moon's Spawn (MOI seems like a good candidate book for that, IIRC)? I'm sure we're told, and that answer would pretty much obliterate the need for anything else that I've written here.



If your answers spoil the second half of DoD, then I'd appreciate a verbal warning (no real need for tags). Beyond that, thanks for your time and patience!

As I put in-line, I think you thought too much on this one. I can't remember any instance in which is was implied that Sky Keeps and Rooted are the same thing. You even quoted the relevant line from DoD that pretty much lets you know that Rooted are not Sky Keeps. It seemed to me that the K'chain lived in Rooted until they discovered that they could detach the peaks of mountains and make them fly as mobile fortresses for war. The description of the mountains being carved down to stumps made me think that they just took the tops off of the peaks and then made it fly.

[Abyss]

@Goas: I hate to threadkill the OP, but i think you really, REALLY wanna RAFO to the end of DoD before you pursue this thread.

I know you're just wondering, but believe me on this, you should finish the book.

- Abyss, here for you. or something.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I think you're way overthinking this. Moon's Spawn is definitely a K'chain Nah'Ruk skykeep. It is a hollowed out mountain that has somehow been made able to float and travel in the air. This matches the description of every skykeep we've seen or heard of to this point. The Rooted's are massive cities in the shape of eleint. They also appear to be much larger than the skykeeps.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i wouldn't say that sky-keeps are "nah'ruk", as a rule. gunth mach speaks of che'malle creating the sky keeps as well, so it seems likely that the nah'ruk learned how to use them later, perhaps this was even the purpose of their revival by the matrons: to crew the sky keeps. of course then the nah'ruk totally went apeshit and the civilization crashed but thats beside the point.

also. definitely rafo about the rooted.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Maybe the Nah'Ruk needed Che Malle to actually make the skykeeps then? I don't remember the Gunth Mach line but it makes sense. Because there is talk in DoD (sry don't have quotes on this) about how all the skykeeps are old and the Nah'Ruk have lost the ability to make them since they have descended to basically just hive minds. Someone makes an observation that all the ones we see are old which is evidence that the skill has been lost to the Nah'Ruk. But in MT we see the Andii and Edur fighting the Che'Malle on the ground, and Silchas leading the soletaken to the skykeeps to fight the vicious short tails I believe. So it seems to me the Nah'Ruk always at least crewed the skykeeps.

[Abyss]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 13 February 2010 - 07:26 AM, said:

... in MT we see the Andii and Edur fighting the Che'Malle on the ground, and Silchas leading the soletaken to the skykeeps to fight the vicious short tails I believe. So it seems to me the Nah'Ruk always at least crewed the skykeeps.

I only read that as being the case at that time, and the revelation in RG that Silch was trying to cut a deal with the Nahruk makes that point even more nebulous.

That being said, aside from Moonspawn and (probably) Drift Avalii, any skykeep we have seen has been linked to the Nahruk. certain events do suggest that skykeep tech isn't strictly a Nahruk thing tho'.

- Abyss, being circumspect.

[D'rek]

Is it just me, or have all Nah'ruk skykeeps so far been flying-mountain types and all Che'malle skykeeps been dragon-city types? Not sure if it ever specified for Moon's Spawn, but the MT prologue ones were mountains and had Nah'ruk in them, presumably the IW ones from BH had nah'ruk in 'em too...

[beru]

well maybe nah' ruk made skykeeps as wepons while KCCM made them as citys/symbols/wepons, and therefore the Nah'ruk skykeeps dont got the dragon shape (as that would be unnessesary for somthing that is nothing but a wepon)

[Soulessdreamer]

given the Nah'ruk hate for the KC and there dragon worship even if the sky keeps had dragon features they would have vandalised them don't you think

TTFN