[Abyss]

I just caught this on the reread...
DoD, UK hb, p72, Udinaas is recalling his recent chat with Silchas about the nature of the elient. Silch was bemoaning the nasty nature of draconic soletaken...

"Rare the blood-fouled who managed to overcome that innate megalomania. 'Ah, Udinaas,' Silchas Ruin had said, 'My brother perhaps, Anomander. Osserc, maybe, maybe not. There was a Bonecaster, once... and a soletaken Jaghut..."

Revelation. Jaghut can be soletaken, or at least draconic soletaken. And there was one.

Gothos? Seems unlikely.
Not Raest, Gethol, Ganath, Huntress or Cynniggig...

I can't help but wonder if it might have been Hood, but we've seen absolutely nothing to suggest it - i'm thinking not.

Anyone spotted anything about this elsewhere? Thoughts?


The Bonecaster may be Olar Ethil, altho that's not certain. Silch would know her as an Elder God. The Bonecaster who sealed the rift in the Refugium could have been draconic - that might explain the sealing the gates thing.

- Abyss, fan of the re-read.

[HoosierDaddy]

Would Silch, though? The scene with Scabandari and Silchas at the beginning of Midnight Tides shows a distinct ignorance of Wu, as Scabandari thinks that with Silchas' death and Anomandaris' absence there are none to give him threat. That is an appalling lack of intelligence of the invaded realm. Granted, that ignorance might not transfer to Silchas, but it could.

I'm going with Olar as the Imass. Jaghut eleint. Frightening efficacy there.

[K'Chain Bull'shite]

Yep. Noticed it. Also note the following:

Sandalath and Withal

Quote

"Then what do the Jaghut have to do with any of this?"
"They created the Nachts. Or so I gathered – the mage Obo in Malaz City seemed to be certain of that. Of course, if he's right and they did, then what they managed to do was something no one else has ever managed – they found a way to chain the wild forces of Soletaken and D'ivers.

This encourages my fantasy of a Jhag Horse D'ivers

[Aptorian]

That dragon must have been the most indifferent dragon ever, the puny Imass would come to slay it and it would be all "what ever, Imass dudes..." and then frostbreath them to death out of spite.

Like always when Erikson throws little tidbits like this into the mix I always just expect it to be a historical character unconnected with the current cast of characters. Adding another layer to the history of the world outside the story.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Yeah if you think that a normal Jaghut is already a powerhouse, you might wonder what a Eleint Soletaken one can do.

@Abyss: Why discount Gothos? To me he seems to be available to the not-megalomaniac requirement as opposed to say, Raest, and we never saw him in need to veer(as opposed to Aranatha or Phyrliss who would have probably done so if they could havve to avoid The T'lann Imass. The only point against it is that Silchas would have probably named him and that such a feature from such a powerful and known guy would have ben mentioned.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Yea I caught that when I read it and spent a couple minutes thinking about how awesome that would be. I got the feeling its not somebody we know too. Its interesting to think of how it happened though, because apparently the only way to become a draconic soletaken is to drink Tiam's blood, or be born of somebody that did that. It's interesting because a Jaghut couldn't just walk into SD, so that means either Tiam was wandering around Wu or Omtose Phellack at some point in time, or a Jaghut had a friend that could get them there. Since we've never seen a full-blooded Jaghut have a companion from a different race (Hood and his servants notwithstanding).

[Kurt Montandon]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 16 January 2010 - 07:34 PM, said:

Since we've never seen a full-blooded Jaghut have a companion from a different race (Hood and his servants notwithstanding).

Gothos and whoever he hooked up with to give us Icarium (I'm not at all sold that it's Kilmandaros - much more likely it was a TTT).

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Yea I have no doubt it was a TTT actually cuz of RG when Karsa looked at Icarium. Karsa also seemed to have a, umm, pleasant encounter, with a Jaghut in HoC too. So I might've been reaching a little bit w/my first post.

[Abyss]

I suppose it's that we've never had any hint of Gothos (or Icarium for that matter) being draconic.

And, pure speculation on my part, but wouldn't Eleint, even soletaken, being aspected to Chaos, be somewhat anathema to the Azath? Sure the Azath in MT cut a deal with Silchas, but that was an extreme case.

After the revelation about Telorast and Curdle, all bets are off, since that whole 'two draconic souls bonded to one dead Tiste Andii body which has since decomposed' thing was mindboggling.

Still, the concept of a draconic soletaken Jaghut is pretty staggering. I'd like to see that.

- Abyss, chilly.

[Morgoth]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was hood, though at the same time Raest didn't seem particularly impressed with Hood, which I imagine he would've been if Hood was a draconic soletaken.

[Tsundoku]

Morgoth, on 19 January 2010 - 08:42 AM, said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it was hood, though at the same time Raest didn't seem particularly impressed with Hood, which I imagine he would've been if Hood was a draconic soletaken.

Then again, Raest never seemed particularly impressed with anything. Affectation, or genuine ennui?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I thinks it's just ole arrogance. You know, Raest believing he was the still the big man despite being knocked out cold for a few millenias.

[Abyss]

I dunno... depowered, undead and just woken up after a few thousand years and Raest, without hesitation, threatens two gods and throws down with four draconic soletaken and a pureblood Eleint... and he doesn't even hesitate.

Sure, he tried to bargain his way out at one point, but even so, it took the five dragons plus Tool hitting him repeatedly with a big stone sword to even make him semi-retreat.

- Abyss, calls THAT badass.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Abyss, on 19 January 2010 - 04:07 PM, said:

I dunno... depowered, undead and just woken up after a few thousand years and Raest, without hesitation, threatens two gods and throws down with four draconic soletaken and a pureblood Eleint... and he doesn't even hesitate.

Sure, he tried to bargain his way out at one point, but even so, it took the five dragons plus Tool hitting him repeatedly with a big stone sword to even make him semi-retreat.

- Abyss, calls THAT badass.

then he goes on a lifetime stand at the finnest house comedy club, to rave reviews! i mean, who could pull off that kind of career change but a badass?

[Abyss]

"I shall call him Tufty."

Thread.
Over.
Raest wins.

- Abyss, almost died laughing.

[Aptorian]

I can't remember, did he do anything with the cat? Do you think he'd bother re-animating it, or do you think he'd have it lying around in what ever room he was occupying.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I'm guessing he just holds it, kind of like a Dr. Evil/Mr. Bigglesworth connection

[Abyss]

I want to yell 'topic' but i'm too busy laughing at that image...

- Abyss, ..umm.. yeah so... soletaken...

[Morgoth]

Tiss a good point. Raest might be the most powerful individual we've come across (perhaps apart from Icarium)... Still I'd imagine the Jaghut ruler of the Ice Hold whom then ascended/was promoted sideways to become lord of death also should be in the upper echelons.

[Aptorian]

The fact that Gothos so easily dismissed Raest in a conversation with Nimander and Kallor in TTH, suggests to me that certain elder beings may in fact be just as scary as Raest was.

Killymandaros I imagine would have been even more brutal in her handling of the Dragons that attacked Raest in GOTM.