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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Daze:
Is the zebra a white horse with black stripes, or a black horse with white stripes?
Who knows, but it sure as hell ain't a wildebeast. Thats the point.
What is your opinion on the Wheel of Time?
#1
caladanbrood 
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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:41 PM
Who knows, but it sure as hell ain't a wildebeast. Thats the point.
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
#2 Guest_Ashnak_*
Posted 01 July 2004 - 12:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Drake Labatt:
Does that mean that ASoIaF lacks cred because GRRM hasn't produced his version of the Silmarillion?
Does that mean THE HYPERION CANTOS lacks cred because Dan Simmons hasn't produced the Silmarillion?
I wasn't talking about those. As for ASoIaF, I actually couldn't care less, as that story bores me to no end, and for the hyperion cantos, well, simmons wasn't trying to do the same thing as RJ and Tolkien, so that's hardly comparable.
And as for the Big White Book, are you actually saying that publishing a few notes RJ has made during the creation of this story can compare to the careful planning of 40 years in Tolkien's mind? Then I pity you. What you don't realise is that the silmarillion was what tolkien wanted to write, while LotR was just a spin off effect. So Tolkien basically created the world, and then wrote a story in it, whereas jordan has been doing it the oter way around. and jordan's 'cultures' are about as thought through as "every californian is a long haired hippy on drugs", and then every californian ever described has to have long hair, purple glasses, and a joint in his/her mouth... (oh and if it's a woman, arms folded under her breast and sniffing, too).
Now, don't be rude, or I'll call you a 'wool-headed sheepherder'
#3 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 09 August 2004 - 05:38 PM
Well that would explain a couple of the guys that work out at my gym.
#4 Guest_LooseCannon_*
Posted 15 June 2004 - 01:13 PM
The one qualm I have with Erikson, and I think this might be what Eleteth was getting at, was that even the soldiers in the Malazan series have a vocabulary that I have to look up in a dictionary sometimes. Even in today's world the majority of soldiers are not the cream of the crop. They are the ones who either can't afford to go to college/university or are frankly too dumb to get a job anywhere else but the military. That is why I think it is unrealistic for soldiers to start hatching diabolical plans to overthrow empires and spouting philosophy about the nature of gods and the world in Erikson's series.
And to the ones complaining that they get irritated by the fact that so many think Jordan is the be-all and end-all of fantasy, please tell me where you saw all these people, because it is news to me? Everywhere I go on the Net all I see are people ripping into Jordan because it is the popular thing to do.
@Fool - How can you say Eddings is better? Eddings writes some of the worst prose I have ever read. If you rate him higher than Jordan based on his ability to finish a thread than you should not call yourself an Erikson fan as he has not even finished his series yet. Some of the conversations between Eddings' characters were the most unrealistic I have ever read. I read two books of his Belegariad books when I was 15 and even then I thought they were horrible.
And to the ones complaining that they get irritated by the fact that so many think Jordan is the be-all and end-all of fantasy, please tell me where you saw all these people, because it is news to me? Everywhere I go on the Net all I see are people ripping into Jordan because it is the popular thing to do.
@Fool - How can you say Eddings is better? Eddings writes some of the worst prose I have ever read. If you rate him higher than Jordan based on his ability to finish a thread than you should not call yourself an Erikson fan as he has not even finished his series yet. Some of the conversations between Eddings' characters were the most unrealistic I have ever read. I read two books of his Belegariad books when I was 15 and even then I thought they were horrible.
#5 Guest_LooseCannon_*
Posted 15 June 2004 - 06:41 PM
Alright, I am not going to make broad, sweeping generalizations anymore. I always end up offending someone 
. Just for the record a good friend of mine is in the Canadian army, so I hold all soldiers in the highest regard. I was just trying to prove a point, honest .
Not that I wouldn't want to fight of course
. Just for the record a good friend of mine is in the Canadian army, so I hold all soldiers in the highest regard. I was just trying to prove a point, honest .Not that I wouldn't want to fight of course
#6 Guest_Drake Labatt_*
Posted 01 July 2004 - 06:40 AM
Guys, I'm getting too old for this. Honestly. After 10 years of 'net discussion, this board is the very last place that I put up any posts, and then only in this forum, and then only sporadically. Talk about crawling to the finish line.
Internet geek wars are an infinite battle that no one can win. I seem to forget that late at night sometimes.
We must all try to remember that while everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't make everyone's opinion as valid. Therein lies the heart of debate, and the ends to which one prosecutes their beliefs cannot be known, but it's the never-ending battle. The appeal is always there, but the real payoff can never come, because this never ends.
That being said, I love you all. Even Gothos, about whom I've forgotten why I'm supposed to dislike him.
Internet geek wars are an infinite battle that no one can win. I seem to forget that late at night sometimes.
We must all try to remember that while everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't make everyone's opinion as valid. Therein lies the heart of debate, and the ends to which one prosecutes their beliefs cannot be known, but it's the never-ending battle. The appeal is always there, but the real payoff can never come, because this never ends.
That being said, I love you all. Even Gothos, about whom I've forgotten why I'm supposed to dislike him.
#7
Tiste Simeon
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Posted 06 December 2004 - 02:22 PM
Well, like I said, I have already got the entire series! I haven't read any of them, do you think I should sell them?
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
#8 Guest_LooseCannon_*
Posted 10 June 2004 - 01:45 PM
I think a new defense I might take up for Robert Jordan is asking all the people who are critisizing him some of the authors that they enjoy reading. I know that some of you who have posted above claim to enjoy reading books by Terry Brooks, David Eddings and R.A. Salvatore. It should be noted that while you rip into Jordan I think there are even more people around who hate those authors. Perhaps not as rabidly as Jordan-haters do but then again these authors aren't as well known as Jordan so I guess many don't feel the need to critisize unless someone starts selling millions of books.
Sorry for sounding hostile but all I am trying to say is that I find it ironic that a lot of the people that dislike Jordan can enjoy trash like the authors mentioned above.
Sorry for sounding hostile but all I am trying to say is that I find it ironic that a lot of the people that dislike Jordan can enjoy trash like the authors mentioned above.
#9 Guest_Blinky_*
Posted 06 December 2004 - 02:02 PM
What's the difficulty?
You were unhappy with book 1. Don't read further unless you can get the books cheap(used, four finger trolloc discount, library, etc)
With so many great books out there, why burden yourself and waste cash with something you find mediocre?
(i don't remember if trolloc's have four fingers, i'm just thinking they call it that regardless. trollocs are like that)
You were unhappy with book 1. Don't read further unless you can get the books cheap(used, four finger trolloc discount, library, etc)
With so many great books out there, why burden yourself and waste cash with something you find mediocre?
(i don't remember if trolloc's have four fingers, i'm just thinking they call it that regardless. trollocs are like that)
#10 Guest_Izz_*
Posted 01 December 2004 - 10:40 PM
The beginning of book 2 is enjoyable. The ending is treacherous. You will want to kill yourself if you read the women's chapters.
#11 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 25 August 2004 - 01:18 PM
Jordan has left the door open to write more WOT stories anytime he wants. At first, that seemed like a cool idea. After reading 9 WOT books, not only does it seem like a bad idea, but whether he should continue this series is even questionable.
I don't think all Dragons have voices in their heads, but I'm happy to say, "I'm not an expert."
I don't think all Dragons have voices in their heads, but I'm happy to say, "I'm not an expert."
#12 Guest__*
Posted 22 August 2004 - 11:48 PM
I did? 
Well it was Rallick anyways who strted the topic 
. . .
I thought I was just answering the thread.
Well it was Rallick anyways who strted the topic . . . I thought I was just answering the thread
.
#13 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 02 December 2004 - 10:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Richard:
btw is the WOT Robert Jordan the same as the Conan the Invincible Robert Jordan?
Was RJ a professional wrestler? I thought I recognized him from somewhere!
#14 Guest_Dark Daze_*
Posted 08 August 2004 - 07:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Caldazar:
I don't wear panties.
I had no idea you had such a wild side.
#15 Guest__*
Posted 14 December 2004 - 04:40 PM
Thing is though, all of the things WoT has going for it are also the problems. Some merely in my opinion, others not. And Im sure this has been pointed out before, but I dont feel like reading this whole thread, nor, I think, does anyone else, really 
First and foremost, the very best thing that series has going for it is the world. Aside from Middle Earth, I cant think of a world which is as detailed as Jordans. Unfortunately, its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy the hell overboard now. It was cool and interesting as a plotish thingymajig in The Great Hunt and Dragon Reborn (and somewhat so in the generorific opener) but the "wow thats cool how he makes whatever make sense with whatever" has become "I dont ****ing care anymore that they wear green scarves to blah blah blah" intricate worlds in moderation make for interesting reading. Also, Jordan tells so much that frankly, isnt interesting, at least not to me. As I just mentioned, I dont care about some idiotic tradition which is there for the sake of being a new stupid tradition. You showed us the world is deep as ****, now chill with this crap!
As to why it sells and is so wonderfully sucessful, first of all, its marketable. Somehow, someone somewhere read his first manuscript and was like "**** son, we can market this" and so they did. And they did so very well also. Most publishers are big ass companies. They get **** done if they think they can rake in the cash, and this is the perfect example.
Second (and I know someone mentioned this somewhere here) WoT is very accessable to the masses. Very very very accessable. Its not difficult reading (in the sense of diction and the like) and whats more, it banks on the "hey, this is a fairy tale with no real literary merit, but I dont care" feeling which pervades...everything. Tolstoy or Faulkner it isnt. You can switch off while reading it (and almost all other... nah, **** that, ALL other fantasy, no exceptions) and in the end, you won't miss anything big. In that sense it plays to the casual reader very much. You dont have to remember something from 6 books ago, because he reminds you of it (sometimes very well, other times horribly) right before it becomes important again. In fact, it would be interesting to see, but I bet a new Jordan reader could pick up book 4 and read onward. By book 6 they'd know everything which actually had a point in book 1-3 that Jordan remembered. (has he forgotten anything? I can say this for him: I dont remember any holes and discontinuities... through book 7/8ish)
That was a ramble, and I dont even remember what I just typed, but meh. Grump away. And Zarevich Christopher: this is your chance to make us like WoT. so get posting..I mean persuading
First and foremost, the very best thing that series has going for it is the world. Aside from Middle Earth, I cant think of a world which is as detailed as Jordans. Unfortunately, its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy the hell overboard now. It was cool and interesting as a plotish thingymajig in The Great Hunt and Dragon Reborn (and somewhat so in the generorific opener) but the "wow thats cool how he makes whatever make sense with whatever" has become "I dont ****ing care anymore that they wear green scarves to blah blah blah" intricate worlds in moderation make for interesting reading. Also, Jordan tells so much that frankly, isnt interesting, at least not to me. As I just mentioned, I dont care about some idiotic tradition which is there for the sake of being a new stupid tradition. You showed us the world is deep as ****, now chill with this crap!
As to why it sells and is so wonderfully sucessful, first of all, its marketable. Somehow, someone somewhere read his first manuscript and was like "**** son, we can market this" and so they did. And they did so very well also. Most publishers are big ass companies. They get **** done if they think they can rake in the cash, and this is the perfect example.
Second (and I know someone mentioned this somewhere here) WoT is very accessable to the masses. Very very very accessable. Its not difficult reading (in the sense of diction and the like) and whats more, it banks on the "hey, this is a fairy tale with no real literary merit, but I dont care" feeling which pervades...everything. Tolstoy or Faulkner it isnt. You can switch off while reading it (and almost all other... nah, **** that, ALL other fantasy, no exceptions) and in the end, you won't miss anything big. In that sense it plays to the casual reader very much. You dont have to remember something from 6 books ago, because he reminds you of it (sometimes very well, other times horribly) right before it becomes important again. In fact, it would be interesting to see, but I bet a new Jordan reader could pick up book 4 and read onward. By book 6 they'd know everything which actually had a point in book 1-3 that Jordan remembered. (has he forgotten anything? I can say this for him: I dont remember any holes and discontinuities... through book 7/8ish)
That was a ramble, and I dont even remember what I just typed, but meh. Grump away. And Zarevich Christopher: this is your chance to make us like WoT. so get posting..I mean persuading
#16
RodeoRanch
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Posted 01 July 2004 - 08:09 AM
Geek wars! 
#17 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 25 August 2004 - 12:06 PM
"News Flash. The story nevery ends. It's not the ending. It's just an ending. The Wheel keeps on spinning..."
Are you saying that after being done with this turning of the wheel, he is going to continue with the next!?
Where the protagonist has rand's voice in his head (poor guy, having a voice in his head that always chatters on about how others know better how to deal with girls), and characters from this age will be the new forsaken?
AND then the turning after and... wait, how many are there!? Is he eventually just gonna get back to the current one?
Are you saying that after being done with this turning of the wheel, he is going to continue with the next!?
Where the protagonist has rand's voice in his head (poor guy, having a voice in his head that always chatters on about how others know better how to deal with girls), and characters from this age will be the new forsaken?
AND then the turning after and... wait, how many are there!? Is he eventually just gonna get back to the current one?
#18 Guest_Richard_*
Posted 03 December 2004 - 06:01 PM
If I'm going to give WOT an honest shot, I don't think I should read ASOIAF 'till after WOT, 'cause from what I've read/heard I wouldn't be able to go back 
So I think I'll give WOT book 2 a shot first.
Besides, Amazon.ca says 'A Feast for Crows' isn't coming out until August 3, 2005, and 'The Bonehunters' isn't due till August 23, 2005, and I wouldn't be surprised if both were late ...
So I think I'll give WOT book 2 a shot first.
Besides, Amazon.ca says 'A Feast for Crows' isn't coming out until August 3, 2005, and 'The Bonehunters' isn't due till August 23, 2005, and I wouldn't be surprised if both were late ...
#19 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 10 June 2004 - 04:38 PM
"Terrain and troop types figure into nearly every battle, and affect the outcome. It's a nice level of detail."
Personally i cant remember much about the battles in WoT, which i guess doesnt speak well for them (not very memorable), except for the one where rand goes mad and starts raining lightning on his own troops. And even IF terrain and unit types figure into it and make up interesting tactical situations he is absolutely useless when it comes to strategy or things like friction or initiative.
"Sure, Rand and Sammael flatten whole platoons, but they're both pretty worn out from the effort."
Leaders arent supposed to fight in the battle.
"Dumai's Wells is just a classic example of what happens when you pit a lot of fighters against a lot of wizards. Blender time."
That doesnt really speak of intelligence.
"And a lot of artists owe some or all of their success to the ground broken by the Beatles."
Thats true of bands who are influenced by the beatles. But erikson for example isnt influenced by RJ. In fact he pretty much did everything differently.
"I know that some of you who have posted above claim to enjoy reading books by Terry Brooks, David Eddings and R.A. Salvatore."
Out of those i have only read eddings (belgariad and malloreon) and while i dont like him much either i do think he is better than jordan. Why? Silk and belgarath. Sure, their humour is predictable and repetative but they kept me more interested than any of RJs characters. Plus, he finishes his series and has WAY better pacing. My favorite fantasy authors are:
Steven Erikson
Glen Cook
Mary Gentle
KJ Parker
Paul Kearney
Terry Pratchett
Stephen Donaldson
And i dont hate RJ personally. It just annoys me that there are so many people who think he is some sort of literary genius, just because they've never read anything better.
"Anything else is holier-than-thou rhetoric, which is /always/ total BS, because everyone posting to an INTERNET BULLETIN BOARD ON A WEBSITE DEVOTED TO A YET-UNFINISHED FANTASY SERIES is a big geek that has stooped to the level of getting a big thrill out of stating their opinion to the world, or at least those they think will care, or they think will read it, or something."
Personally i cant remember much about the battles in WoT, which i guess doesnt speak well for them (not very memorable), except for the one where rand goes mad and starts raining lightning on his own troops. And even IF terrain and unit types figure into it and make up interesting tactical situations he is absolutely useless when it comes to strategy or things like friction or initiative.
"Sure, Rand and Sammael flatten whole platoons, but they're both pretty worn out from the effort."
Leaders arent supposed to fight in the battle.
"Dumai's Wells is just a classic example of what happens when you pit a lot of fighters against a lot of wizards. Blender time."
That doesnt really speak of intelligence.
"And a lot of artists owe some or all of their success to the ground broken by the Beatles."
Thats true of bands who are influenced by the beatles. But erikson for example isnt influenced by RJ. In fact he pretty much did everything differently.
"I know that some of you who have posted above claim to enjoy reading books by Terry Brooks, David Eddings and R.A. Salvatore."
Out of those i have only read eddings (belgariad and malloreon) and while i dont like him much either i do think he is better than jordan. Why? Silk and belgarath. Sure, their humour is predictable and repetative but they kept me more interested than any of RJs characters. Plus, he finishes his series and has WAY better pacing. My favorite fantasy authors are:
Steven Erikson
Glen Cook
Mary Gentle
KJ Parker
Paul Kearney
Terry Pratchett
Stephen Donaldson
And i dont hate RJ personally. It just annoys me that there are so many people who think he is some sort of literary genius, just because they've never read anything better.
"Anything else is holier-than-thou rhetoric, which is /always/ total BS, because everyone posting to an INTERNET BULLETIN BOARD ON A WEBSITE DEVOTED TO A YET-UNFINISHED FANTASY SERIES is a big geek that has stooped to the level of getting a big thrill out of stating their opinion to the world, or at least those they think will care, or they think will read it, or something."
#20 Guest_Crumpstar_*
Posted 06 November 2004 - 02:31 PM
I think that the series started off real good, but of late it has been quite disapointing, the last biik seemed to me to be just a fill in, nothing really happened. Like GRRM it seems to be taking a huge amount of time for the next book to come out. I prob will finish the series but i woint be getting excited for it.
