[Hetan]

So here's the anomaly. According to Onrack, Shadowthrone's command of the T'lan Imass is not what it was now that he has ascended, in addition to which the Throne was also not as powerful - Here's a quote regarding all this :-

Quote

Onrack cut in. “This you must understand, Cotillion of Shadow. Once, long ago by mortal standards, now, your companion found the First Throne. He occupied it and so gained command over the T’lan Imass. Even then, it was a tenuous grasp, for the power of the First Throne is ancient. Indeed, its power wanes. Shadowthrone was able to awaken Logros T’lan Imass -- a lone army, finding itself still bound to the First Throne’s remnant power due to little more than mere proximity. He could not command Kron T’lan Imass, nor Bentract, nor Ifayle, nor the others that remained, for they were too distant. When Shadowthrone last sat upon the First Throne, he was mortal, he was bound to no other aspect. He had not ascended. But now, he is impure, and this impurity ever weakens his command. Cotillion, as your companion loses ever more substance, so too does he lose … veracity.” (BH)

So bearing in mind the Throne is near Li Heng, and the T'lan Imass in DoD are in the Wastelands - not exactly within proximity - additionally Shadowthrone is no longer mortal and therefore does not command the First Throne any more, how come this occurs :-

Quote

Four leagues to the northwest, Onos Toolan suddenly halted, the first time in days. Something not far away had brushed his senses, but now it was gone. T'lan Imass. Strangers. He hesitated, as the more distant and altogether different wave of compulsion returned, insistent, desperate. He knew its flavour, had known its flavour for weeks now. ...
The summons was Malazan. It was the claim of alliance as had been forged long ago, between the Emperor and the Logros T'lan Imass. Somewhere to the east, a Malazan force waited. Danger approached, and the T'lan Imass must stand with allies of old. Such was duty. Such was the ink of honour, written so deep as to stain the immortal soul.

I know the bones of the Bonecaster were melded with that of the First Throne so that could help to make it's power stronger, but how the heck did a Malazan summons get sent?

[Illuyankas]

Tavore using her super secret Adjunct powers and sending Masan Gilani as the physical messenger. She just ran into the Unbound first. The summons is weak enough that he can just ignore it despite being only a short distance away at this point, so there's no real problem there.

[Hetan]

How can Tavore send a summons? She does not command the First Throne.

[Illuyankas]

Neither did Lorn. But presumably Kellanved said something like 'I order you to follow my subordinates when they call, blah blah blah delegation etc.' while on the First Throne and it never got repealed.

[waylander001]

Illuyankas, on 06 January 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

Tavore using her super secret Adjunct powers and sending Masan Gilani as the physical messenger. She just ran into the Unbound first. The summons is weak enough that he can just ignore it despite being only a short distance away at this point, so there's no real problem there.

I think this touches on it a bit. When Shadowthrone gained the power of command through the First Throne I think it maybe came to symbolise some form of alliance/relationship between the Malazan Empire and the remaining T'Lan Imass who were affected by the proximity of the Throne - simply because Kellanved was the Malazan Emperor at that time. His ascension or removal from the Empire then would have caused the alliance or relationship between First Throne/Kellanved/Empire to become even more confused or diluted - meaning that it was not just Kellanved (now ST) who could command/claim their allegience.

Also I feel Tool - being the first Sword of the Imass would have had constant malazan contact during that time - so creating this "Ink of Honour" and "Duty" feeling we get from hearing his persective.

Did any of the other Imass seem to be affected by the "call to arms" - or was it just Tool?

This post has been edited by waylander001: 06 January 2010 - 06:02 PM

[Soulessdreamer]

Isn't there the assertion that surly comanded the T'lan in the slaughter at Aren showing that kellenvad wasn't the only malazan they listened to?

TTFN

[Sinisdar Toste]

waylander001, on 06 January 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

Illuyankas, on 06 January 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

Tavore using her super secret Adjunct powers and sending Masan Gilani as the physical messenger. She just ran into the Unbound first. The summons is weak enough that he can just ignore it despite being only a short distance away at this point, so there's no real problem there.

I think this touches on it a bit. When Shadowthrone gained the power of command through the First Throne I think it maybe came to symbolise some form of alliance/relationship between the Malazan Empire and the remaining T'Lan Imass who were affected by the proximity of the Throne - simply because Kellanved was the Malazan Emperor at that time. His ascension or removal from the Empire then would have caused the alliance or relationship between First Throne/Kellanved/Empire to become even more confused or diluted - meaning that it was not just Kellanved (now ST) who could command/claim their allegience.

Also I feel Tool - being the first Sword of the Imass would have had constant malazan contact during that time - so creating this "Ink of Honour" and "Duty" feeling we get from hearing his persective.

Did any of the other Imass seem to be affected by the "call to arms" - or was it just Tool?

well none of the others were even part of kellenveds logros army so i would imagine not. the unbound were logros as well, why, i assume they were able to sense the summons, however the hell tavore sent it out

[Urizen]

Why can't it simply be Shadowthrone himself that sends the summoning to Tool? No matter what Tavore, ST and Cotillion are actually planning(Chaining the CG again, killing him outright, freeing him etc etc), it makes sense that ST is keeping a close eye on the 14th and while we can't say for certain what is plotted, we can say that the Bonhunters has a very important part to play. Having the 14th wiped out might mess up ST plans.

[Silencer]

If you've got BH handy, Hetan, I'd appreciate a quote of the exchange about restoring the Throne's power - I can't find it and I'm sure it's at least somewhat relevant.

[K'Chain Bull'shite]

Soulessdreamer, on 07 January 2010 - 02:12 AM, said:

Isn't there the assertion that surly comanded the T'lan in the slaughter at Aren showing that kellenvad wasn't the only malazan they listened to?

TTFN

I think the consensus is that it could not have been Laseen that ordered the Aren Massacre, despite what Apsalar (with Cotillion's memories) says - It's said a couple of times that Laseen never commanded the Imass. Presumably Kellanved ordered it and kept it from Dancer - he was more than a bit mad, after all

[Hetan]

Hetan, on 06 January 2010 - 04:46 PM, said:

I know the bones of the Bonecaster were melded with that of the First Throne so that could help to make it's power stronger, but how the heck did a Malazan summons get sent?

Silencer, on 07 January 2010 - 09:29 AM, said:

If you've got BH handy, Hetan, I'd appreciate a quote of the exchange about restoring the Throne's power - I can't find it and I'm sure it's at least somewhat relevant.

I said the melding of Monoch Ochem's body with the throne could have helped to make the throne's power stronger - not that it did make it stronger. Although there is something tickling at the back of my mind about that, so I'll take a look at the bits on the wiki.

[waylander001]

Urizen, on 07 January 2010 - 09:18 AM, said:

Why can't it simply be Shadowthrone himself that sends the summoning to Tool? No matter what Tavore, ST and Cotillion are actually planning(Chaining the CG again, killing him outright, freeing him etc etc), it makes sense that ST is keeping a close eye on the 14th and while we can't say for certain what is plotted, we can say that the Bonhunters has a very important part to play. Having the 14th wiped out might mess up ST plans.

this is definitely another option - although i'd still side with the idea that someone/thing within the Bonehunters sends the summons ..... whether it is Tavore or not??? well whatever - Tool saw it as a call of Honour and his is the only perspective we get so I dont think it's too big of an anomaly. He had close contact with the Malazan Empire and although technically the Bonehunters are no longer of the empire - there are enough remaining chains to at least allow an inkling of a summons/request to scrape through to him.

[Ulrik]

It seems to me that Tool was special. In time he accompanied Lorn was (iirc) no other Imass bound to Empire. Maybe he gave Lorn or Surly magic toothpick box "and if you need me, broke one...and maybe Ill answer". It looks more like deal First Sword - Adjunct (Empire) thing than throne calling.

For tBH "Throne discusssion":
'This you must understand, Cotillion of Shadow. Once,
long ago by mortal standards, now, your companion found the First Throne. He occupied it and so
gained command over the T'lan Imass. Even then, it was a tenuous grasp, for the power of the First
Throne is ancient. Indeed, its power wanes. Shadowthrone was able to awaken Logros T'lan Imass
— a lone army, finding itself still bound to the First Throne's remnant power due to little more than
mere proximity. He could not command Kron T'lan Imass, nor Bentract, nor Ifayle, nor the others
that remained, for they were too distant. When Shadowthrone last sat upon the First Throne, he was
mortal, he was bound to no other aspect. He had not ascended. But now, he is impure, and this
impurity ever weakens his command. Cotillion, as your companion loses ever more substance, so
too does he lose... veracity.'
Cotillion stared at the broken warrior, then looked over at Monok Ochem and Ibra Gholan. 'And
these, then,' he said in a low voice, 'represent... token obedience.' The bonecaster said, 'We must
seek to preserve our own kind, Cotillion of Shadow.'
'And if the First Throne is lost?' A clattering shrug.

This post has been edited by Ulrik: 07 January 2010 - 04:17 PM

[foolio]

so was Masan Galani sent for Tools crew and mistakenly found the 3 "unbound?"

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I think so. She did say she thought there was an army which would make it seem as if she went for Tol&Co but found the Unbound. Now the question should be:
Did the Unbound simply happened to be there for whatever reason or where they sent by the CG(or by their own initiative) to mess up with what remained of the Bonehunters?
I go slightly more for the second choice.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I think it is simpler and less an abstract reason than everyone has given so far. After the Atri-Ceda showed Quick the moving bit of dirt, he realized what it was, and following what she was able to do, he quested out and sensed a large number of T'lan Imass out in the Wastelands like she had. But since he is Quick Ben, he realized what they were, and thought to send out a summons for the old alliance to be re-kindled. The reason Masan Gilani found the Unbound, was because she was holding a part of one of them and that one wanted to become whole again.

[foolio]

does anyone remeber how the Bonehunters got a chunk of unbound?

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

The Letherii Atri-Ceda Aranict saw a bit of mud squirming on the bank of the river before they took the barges. Being interested in nature, she went and investigated and found it was moving on its own. She then showed it to Quick Ben.

[foolio]

I remeber her making a big deal out of the moving mud, but I didnt really understand what the issue was. I certainly didnt realize it was a chunk of unbound.
I found it very ironic how Tool is not intent on helping the Malazans but he does just that. The senan were going to go after the Bonehunters by Strahls pov account, and then tool and the baby killers show up and snuff them out. The senan rolling up on a decimated Bonehunters could have been a major problem and even though he refused to help them, this act certainly did...I say good riddance to the Barghast.

[Torrud Segul]

I always kind of assumed that the Unbound sent the summons to tool with their Ritual of Tellan powers need to re-read DoD