[HoosierDaddy]

1. Che'Malle.
2. Yes, the Che'Malle tell them their are survivors.
3. The Nah'ruk (bad guys) don't let sleeping dogs lie. They see you. They annihilate you. They move on.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 31 December 2009 - 05:50 AM

[Sinisdar Toste]

god damn nah'ruk were doing it all book too. stupid barghast.

then that one time it was draconus

[Limper]

How concerned can you be about a character or group dying, in a world where death is such a malleable thing? If QB died, is he dead like Paran, Kellanved, Dancer, Anomander, Draconus, Shurq, Toc, Tool, Hedge, Brys, or ... A small gripe with the series, SE has sort of watered down death into some regrettable but not quite terminal milestone in somebody's existence. Given his knowledge, power, and skill, Quick Ben seems a likelier candidate to ascend than Gesler, Stormy, or even Kellanved. Other than that, have faith - nobody found a body (yet), if he died it was in the continent of Letheras, he was a Bridgeburner like Hedge, he tended to keep the occasional shaved knuckle in the hole, and he had a lot of gods angry enough at him to not tolerate his escape via death. Plus, he may have veered into his acorn D'ivers form at the last instant .

[HoosierDaddy]

More likely to ascend than Kellanved? Is there any chance that Kellanved didn't ascend?

All the BB's ascending seems fairly established, but will Dead Hedge re-ascend? There is some weird stuff going on with the Bridgeburners.

[Limper]

Quote

Is there any chance that Kellanved didn't ascend?

No, Kellanved certainly did ascend, I'm just suggesting if there was a bunch of "right stuff" qualities for ascension, I'd think QB has them aplenty and maybe Kellanved not so much. Maybe not though - what makes a person ascension material? Kellanved is sort of mysterious to us: a little (lot?) nuts, ambitious, manipulative, maybe lazy, and sometimes very loyal to friends. I thought he came by his empire by being in the right place at the right time, with the right friends. Ongoing success came from having good administrative habits, an amazing supporting cast (generals, Dassem, T'Lan Imass, Moranth, Claw & Talon), and treating foreigners honorably after victories or treaties. Ben, on the other hand, is Ben. Clever, audacious, chock full of warrens, and surprisingly capable when he has to go head-to-head with mages, gods, a dragon, Bauchelain, etc. I see Ben as a power unto himself, whereas pre-ascendent Kellanved exerted the powers of others for his empire. Assimilating the souls of all those mages in the desert shows some real metaphysical power. What does Kellanved show us prior to his godhood? I can't think of anything but political skill and a crazy ambition to wander off on Azath paths to play some huge game for all the marbles (and I assume that game is still in play and we don't know his precise goals, but it likely involves rewriting the pantheon, eliminating some existential threat like the Crippled God, the Otataral Dragon, or the Assail continent empire, preventing harm to Morn, or something similarly large). He thinks big and survived around sharks until it no longer suited his plans, but we hear little or nothing of his personal power.

Maybe ascension comes from having a sureness of identity, a will to survive, and a purpose to exist for. If the spirit wills it strongly enough, the body is immaterial. I'm not sure how passing through a fiery warren turned Stormy and Gesler into almost-ascendents though. Does simply dousing somebody with warren energy turn them ascendent? Maybe that set Kellanved and Dancer on the path. If so, are the Azath paths the same as warrens? I get the feeling some of us will be scratching our heads long after the Malazan series is completed, read, and re-read. I hope so, having all the answers would be boring.

This post has been edited by Limper: 03 January 2010 - 06:39 AM

[Hetan]

As far as ascension is concerned - it should be the discussion point for another thread, however we are talking about who survived and there are more methods than one for survival. QB and Fiddler were both Bridgeburners and therefore will ascend (if QB isn't already an ascendant in some shape or form).

Quote

There were so many paths to godhood. Kadaspala was certain of that. So many paths, so many paths. Refuse to die, refuse to surrender, refuse to die and refuse to surrender and that was one path, stumbled onto without true intent, without even wanting it, and these gods were the bemused ones, the reluctant ones. They were best left alone, for to prod them awake was to risk apocalypse. Reluctant power was the deadliest power of them all, for the anger behind it was long stoked. Long stoked and stoked long and long, so best leave them leave them leave them alone.
Other gods were called into being and the nature of that call took countless forms. A convulsion of natural forces, until the very sludge awakens. Wherever discordant elements clashed, the possibility was born. Life. Intent. Desire and need. But these too were accidental things, inasmuch as anything could be accidental when all the particles necessary for creation abounded, as they surely did. There were other ways of calling a god into being. (TtH)

Gesler and Stormy are also on their way - see this passage :-

Quote

This Mortal Sword and his words impressed Gu'Rull, insofar as these soft humans could do so; but then, neither the one named Gesler nor the one named Stormy were truly human. Not anymore. The aura of their presence was almost blinding to the Shi'gal's eyes. Ancient fires had forged them. Thyrllan, Tellann, perhaps even the breath and blood of the Eleint.(DoD)

.

Bottle's body was hidden under a pile of bodies and his mind was controlling the Wyval's. The last PoV was that he had used himself up to the point of exhaustion but that doesn't mean he died so I'm hoping he will survive... and Brys is still alive, Tavore, and I'm sure Lostara danced her way through. I can't wait for the next book.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I honestly think thatthe most importatnt guys survived.

Tavore, Lostara,the Bluerose guy who fell in love with her, Fiddler, Brys, maybe the Atri-Ceda, Bottle and I don't believe QB is really dead. Of course, I'm sure that to compensate this, SE will kill lot's of named BH, like Balm, Deadsmell, Tarr etc

Then there are those I think have survived because of a few reasons.

Throatslitter, we still have to know who the other Talon is, if he/she has survived.
Ruthan Gudd. Yes, yes, I know that he seemed pretty much overwhelmed but SE said we had to read on to know more about him. Unless, he refers to ICE next book with Greymane, damn.

Oh, and while I believe the Kundryl have been completely eradicated, we still have that Perish and the Bolkando.

[Obdigore]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 03 January 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

I honestly think thatthe most importatnt guys survived.

Tavore, Lostara,the Bluerose guy who fell in love with her, Fiddler, Brys, maybe the Atri-Ceda, Bottle and I don't believe QB is really dead. Of course, I'm sure that to compensate this, SE will kill lot's of named BH, like Balm, Deadsmell, Tarr etc

Then there are those I think have survived because of a few reasons.

Throatslitter, we still have to know who the other Talon is, if he/she has survived.
Ruthan Gudd. Yes, yes, I know that he seemed pretty much overwhelmed but SE said we had to read on to know more about him. Unless, he refers to ICE next book with Greymane, damn.

Oh, and while I believe the Kundryl have been completely eradicated, we still have that Perish and the Bolkando.

The Khundryl were not completely eradicated, but they were severely damaged. I just read the book again and they took heavy losses, but still came through it and struck the Nah'ruk in the flank.

Also, the Letherii went all phalanx style on them.

Do not forget that you now Stormy and Gesler controlling the warlizards, aka the heavy-of-heavies.

[foolio]

Quote

3 a : to reduce drastically especially in number <cholera decimated the population> b : to cause great destruction or harm to <firebombs decimated the city> <an industry decimated by recession>

— dec·i·ma·tion \ˌde-sə-ˈmā-shən\ noun

See that 3a and b?

thanks for the correction. About 2000 years ago when much of the world spoke Latin it could have been strictly used for killing 1 out of 10. Since then things have changed. The best example I can think of was Marcus licinius Crassus(one of the biggest assholes in history) decimated his legions out of dissapointemnt in their performance in the spartacus uprising. At this point it did mean 1 out of 10. But for someone today to say something was decimated and not mean 1 out of 10 strictly is BY NO MEANs incorrect. I couldnt tell if the Op was joking or if he is just missinformed...

[Leo]

I refuse to believe the Bonehunters are dead. Especially the important characters.
I'm still not sure as to spoiler requirements. I won't block the above because it's already been said.

Spoiler

• There is mucho evidenco (I know it's wrong!) such as Gu-Rull's report of a retreat.
• The heavies start to hold the Nah'Ruk just as the Khundryll and Letherii commit. Even though they got stomped (as shown by the slaughter of the Burned Tears), it was likely enough to cover the Bonehunters' retreat.
• While the battle was epic beyond belief, and the book still left me repeating the un-abbreviated words 'SOB' and 'GD' in my mind for two days, the deaths were not. Slaughtering so many beloved characters at once without even showing the deaths of the favorites and long-timers just doesn't create enough of an effect. We skipped from an unnaturally sober Hellian rushing to the heavies aid right to Ges witnessing the end of the Nah'Ruk's feast. Methinks it's just a means of getting us to ask this very question and be heavily anticipating the response in the next book.
• When the Nah'Ruk finally find QB and unleash the fury of a thousand furies (teehee - get it?), I believe it says he raises his hands in defence. Again, there is no scene actually showing him getting ranalled. I also refuse to believe that QB would go without displaying his soletaken form. SE can be ruthless at times, but that's just plain cruel! Of course, he could just come back as an ascendant and do it then. Still...
• Only the adjunct and a few other special people really know why the armies are marching to Kolanse. The next book is titled The Crippled God, so we should assume it has a lot to do with the bloody Crippled God. I smell another convergence around that point. The armies need to fulfill their purpose, and they can't really do that if nobody has any idea what their purpose is. At least one of the people who know has to survive. That being said, Fid and QB will live on anyways, and the adjunct has a very good chance of survival (especially with Lostara "Not Even Cotillion" Yil watching over her [Apparently that was Apsalar. Still gotta' look up the quote, though.]). Even if the Bonehunters got ripped apart, some of the important chars will make it to the next book.

This post has been edited by Leo: 13 February 2010 - 11:42 PM

[Hinter]

Well, I started a thread here that I can't find now, hoping that most of them were dead. SE is such a good "storyteller" that he can move on from established characters, create new ones and still keep me enraptured. But most of all, a certain ginger bearded sapper was getting rather samey and dull imho. IN MY HUMBLE OPINON before the flak starts flying!

[Epiph]

You just don't like him because he's a ginger.

[Hinter]

I have many ginger friends actually. Well, one, and she's more of an acquaintance than a friend. But apart from that I love gingers!

[HoosierDaddy]

Hinter, on 10 February 2010 - 04:08 AM, said:

Well, I started a thread here that I can't find now, hoping that most of them were dead. SE is such a good "storyteller" that he can move on from established characters, create new ones and still keep me enraptured. But most of all, a certain ginger bearded sapper was getting rather samey and dull imho. IN MY HUMBLE OPINON before the flak starts flying!

How in gods name can an author, nine books in, "move on from established characters"? Erikson is NINE BOOKS IN.

Hinter, on 10 February 2010 - 09:25 AM, said:

I have many ginger friends actually. Well, one, and she's more of an acquaintance than a friend. But apart from that I love gingers!

Fantastic. Great reasoning for getting rid of Fid. (I know you are joking. It ain't funny though, Hinter.)

This post has been edited by H.D.: 10 February 2010 - 09:46 AM

[D'rek]

I would think that enough soldiers of the BHs and their allies died that there will be so few every one of them gets a lizard-mount as they run across the Wastelands and blazing Che'malle speeds in tCG.

[Sinisdar Toste]

D, on 16 February 2010 - 03:40 AM, said:

I would think that enough soldiers of the BHs and their allies died that there will be so few every one of them gets a lizard-mount as they run across the Wastelands and blazing Che'malle speeds in tCG.

this would be unbelievable. bonehunters riding k'ell hunters? the forkrul assail can kiss their asses goodbye

edit: which is probably possible for them joint-filled bastards

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 16 February 2010 - 04:09 AM

[ergault]

Erik Raditzky, on 17 December 2009 - 07:17 PM, said:

THE BONEHUNTERS!!!!!!! WHY!!!!!!

The book was awesome, and having read through Abyss' Post I have to agree with just about everything said. But Still, It was an ending I jsut didn't see coming, and like Laseen's death in RotCG I found myself having to re-read several times to make sure I wasn't Hallucinating. I am literally heartbroken, Surely they cant all be dead, Quick Ben is my Hero and I refuse to believe that man can die, it's not possible.

But assuming I'm wrong and all the BoneHunters are now a Steaming pile of Nah'Ruk faeces (not a pleasant image I know) Does that mean that its now down to the K'Chain Che'Malle led by Stormy and Gesler? Because, lest we forget, Brys Beddict and the Letherii were anihilated too and so were the Perish and the Burned Tears! Honestly! talk about your genocidal endings.

Someone tell me it isn't true, all my favourite Malazan Characters cant be gone. Can they?

[ergault]

one of the things that intrigues me...the bolt of lightning that took out QB...its my opinion but i reckon it was from shadowthrone..n he"s now in the deadhouse with kalam...we"ll just have 2 w8 n see....yeah i hope fiddler aint dead...but SE has shown previously he has no qualms bout killing off central characters

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Well when Gu'rull is scouting the approaching Nah'Ruk army for Stormy and Gesler he sees that there was evidence of a battle, and most of the Bonehunters had been destroyed, but he also sees evidence of a retreat away from the battle which he does not have time to pursue. So its likely they are not all dead, if that helps your reaction to the book.

[Abyss]

ergault, on 19 February 2010 - 11:45 AM, said:

one of the things that intrigues me...the bolt of lightning that took out QB...its my opinion but i reckon it was from shadowthrone..n he"s now in the deadhouse with kalam...we"ll just have 2 w8 n see....yeah i hope fiddler aint dead...but SE has shown previously he has no qualms bout killing off central characters

re QB, i figured it was a Skykeep bolt, but whatevere it was, if anyone had a backup plan for escaping death, even death by direct skykeep zap, it's QB.

re Fid, someone, Hedge i believe, tells Fid he has to carry 'them' (presumably the dead BBs) 'to the end'. And we're not at the end just yet.

I could be wrong, and it would be totally SE-style to nt have those hints pay off, but even so, i remain optimistic we'll see them again.

- Abyss, ...also believes in the tooth fairy...