[Illuyankas]

D, on 25 November 2009 - 02:10 PM, said:

Ah yes, because the characterization of C&H/xkcd's nameless stick-figures are so emotional and realistic, aren't they? And Gabe from Penny Arcade is far more than just a hyperactive game-addicted socially-inept man-child who spits out random statements (also applies to Ethan from CAD and the protaganist of just about any other gaming webcomic)... And Slick from Sinfest isn't just a ineptly-womanizing midget who thinks looking like a pimp will get him chicks...

C&H and xkcd are not character or story driven comics, so they aren't relevant to this at all. Gabe might not be, being the pinnacle and the holy grail of all gaming webcomics for reasons the others haven't figured out yet (hint: sometimes he doesn't win), but Ethan from Ctrl-Alt-Delete is THE hyperactive game-addicted socially-inept man-child who spits out random statements. The perfect example of one. Plus his creator is also a colossal asshole. Sinfest has more problems than just Slick, either way.

D, on 25 November 2009 - 02:10 PM, said:

It's a webCOMIC, Illy. Like most print comics, the characters are extremely two-dimensional and not likely to change. If the character's behaviour brings in numerous laughs, why would they ever change him? Charlie Brown never learned not to trust Lucy with the football because that joke was funny, and 3 panels Charlie saying "No, I am not going to kick the ball because you will move it" (and then actually not kicking it) would not be funny at all. Do you read For Better or For Worse? That entire comic is continuous and plotted and people get pregnant and die and have horrific mistakes and such. And it's not funny! The demographic of whimsical trophy wives who enjoy reading that comic (and even they don't find it funny, just emphatic) are not generally present on the internet, so a webcomic has to stick to the funny genre, not the serious-dramatic-plot genre.

Aaaaaaand this is the point where I realise that I've spent too much time reading webcomics on the interbutts, because there are a ton of comics that have had character development that's lead into new jokes and better humour for the most part but frankly most have fallen prey to that dreaded scourge, drama, and turned kind of crappy. At least until they got rid of the drama crap for some of them. So you're partly right there.

HOWEVER, that doesn't excuse characters that start off being shitty and unfunny. A usual (90%) CAD or LICD story goes like this: Author- OH! Sorry, the main character does something appallingly retarded and stupid that pisses off, offends and sometimes seriously fucks over his friends, and either: succeeds beyond his wildest dreams, everyone loves him again and I throw up blood; or: he fails, doesn't reap the full consequences of his actions, everyone STILL loves him, no repercussions whatsoever and I throw up blood harder. It doesn't help that most of the time the jokes are horribly paced and generally not worth it at the end, either. There's a whole host of issues with Buckley and a few less with Sohmer (at least Sohmer hasn't sent a picture of his dick to a 14-year-old girl) but that can wait until another time. Annoying Asshole/Author Insert, the Straight Man/Personalityless Foil, the Girl/Author Insert Love Interest and Comedy Sidekick/Unlikely Talking Thing comics can go fuck off, because they fucking suck.

D, on 25 November 2009 - 02:10 PM, said:

If you want deep characterization, characters who learn from mistakes and realism, go read a book (I hear there's some Erikson guy you might like)!

If I wanted to read a book, I'd read a book. If I wanted to read a webcomic with actual characterisation, characters who do learn from mistakes (but not realism here, no, that would be silly), without the shittest kinds of stereotypes and - most importantly - CONTAINS _ORIGINAL_ JOKES THAT ARE SHOCK FUCKING HORROR ACTUALLY FUNNY, then I'd read Dr McNinja. Which you should also read. Right now.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 25 November 2009 - 03:56 PM

[Obdigore]

Seriously,

We could get Xanth13 to draw it, and the two of you to write the captions. It would become legend in mere weeks.

WEEKS I SAY.

Do 'Sundays by Abyss', it shall be glorious. Donate all proceeds to this site until all the fees are covered, and then keep the rest for yourselves.

[Illuyankas]

BUT THAT ISN'T SERIOUS BUSINESS ENOUGH DAMN IT

[Sinisdar Toste]

Serious Business is a fucking motorcycle unicorn that longs to enslave and destroy this and every world. totally not rad.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

This thread has too much serious business.

[D'rek]

Obdigore, on 25 November 2009 - 03:48 PM, said:

D'rek just inserted her size eight boots with 5-inch chainsaw heels in Illy's ass and wiggled it around to make sure he was confortable with it.

I think the two of you should do a webcomic.

We can call it CoHaHoC.
(Chicken of Hate and Hater of Chickens).

^^fixed

To Illy: While I'm open to the concept of a plot-and-drama-driven comic that is actually funny, those require a fair degree of grounding and realism. The more common type of webcomic that is particularly unrealistic, like pretty much any of the ones mentioned here so far, could never work manage a realistic drama-arc because they're already so unrealistic (and I don't mean unrealistic like building a robot from an xbox or having a transforming Audi, I mean unrealistic in the way the characters interact and get away with their own behaviour). There *could* be a comic similar to LICD or any of the other webcomics mentioned here that evolved realistically based on normal reactions from the characters, but it would have to start with that from square one - any of the existing comics trying to have this happen would fail utterly (like CAD and its mis-carriage bit. Wasn't supposed to be funny but nevertheless atrocious and should not have been done.)

All that being said, getting back on the example of LICD, there are numerous comics where Rayne does something unexpectedly generous for his friends. Generally those strips aren't even that funny, but they're at least a bit sentimental *because* they are unexpected. Realistically, there should be a ton more of those strips in order for the relationships between the characters not to end utterly in violent temper tantrums when Rayne becomes too much for his friends. But, there'd have to be at least 50% of the strips be those touchy-feely and not-as-funny moments to make it realistic and since those strips aren't usually nearly as funny, the comic as a whole would be a lot less funny, too. Frankly, I prefer my unrealistic, episodic but more-consistently-humourous comic, even if it does suspend my disbelief sometimes. And that way the unexpected bits of generosity are more heart-warming, too.

[Tapper]

[mock horror]Illy, did you just advocate that you hate comics that read like your hyperbolic posts on this forum? [/mock horror]

But seriously, it is all about taste and purpose, I'd say.
I read webcomics for the easy laugh, not for the drama or a storyline, and I tend to have a quick laugh when I catch a glimp of crude sexual innuendo, or the laughable misfortune of non-existent badly drawn characters (suicide bunnies, anyone?). It is one of the reasons I pick 4 panel webcomics, too, they tend to be easy on my pea sized brain.

[Tiste Simeon]

This thread is actually more amusing than most webcomics out there... I might ignore all of them and just read Illy ranting at everything that moves.