[Ben Adephon Delat]

So if I'm getting this correctly Draconus is basically Burn's version of Mother Dark both of them being gods of darkness. Of course MD is more important to the Tiste than Draconus is to the peoples of Burn

This post has been edited by Ben Adephon Delat: 03 November 2009 - 03:28 PM

[D'rek]

Ben Adephon Delat, on 03 November 2009 - 03:26 PM, said:

So if I'm getting this correctly Draconus is basically Burn's version of Mother Dark both of them being gods of darkness. Of course MD is more important to the Tiste than Draconus is to the peoples of Burn

No, not really. Draconus is just an Elder God that is aspected to Darkness, from around the same generation as K'rul, Mael, Ossric, etc. (ie the generations after MD, FL, Tiam). Unlike Osric, who appears to be Light-aspected (among other things), Draconus does not seem to be directly descended from Light or Dark and therefore not Tiste-like, whereas Osric is the "First Son of Dark and Light" (to quote Sukul Ankhadu), though he is not a particular Tiste race either (unlike Rake, who really is an Andii).

Draconus is labeled as one of the Elder Gods "of this world" ('this' being the malaziworld), but like K'rul, Mael and the other malazi-EGs, he still had association with MD and such. The uniqueness of Draconus' situation, I guess, is that unlike K'rul, Mael, Killy, etc who had their own unique aspects, Draconus' was also Darkness and hence his role such as Suzerain of Night.


In summary: it's complicated and mostly speculation.

[Ben Adephon Delat]

I was under the impression that Rake and his two brothers were the result of immaculate conception by MD. Osric the result of some weird women unnecessary birth by FL. Scabandari the result of FL and MD getting it on. The Draconic family tree on the wiki seems to agree with this assessment but what you're saying disputes it.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

In RG Udinaas wonders wheter the three sons of Md are also sons of FL, but this is just a theory and for now we shall accept that they don't have a father.
Osserc, on the other hand, is not truly a Tiste Liosan but actually an EG and as such heis almostost certainly not FL son.
We don't know if the first Edur is the son of MD and FL( I personally doubt it) but even if he is this Edur is not Scabandari who murdered the original Edur Royal lLine(presumably the Edur equivalent of Rake, Ruin and Andarist) and is just a powerful Edur who drank Tiam's blood.

[Ben Adephon Delat]

Osserc isn't a Tiste Liosan? Well that's a surprise isn't he worshipped by them in the same way some or all the Andii worship Rake.

Well seeing as it's somewhat related I might as well ask are the children of Elder Gods automatically Ascendents because Envy, Spite and L'oric are all Ascended and their parents are EG's. Seeing as they're all soletaken elient and powerful sorcerors there's no reasons they can't have ascended on their own merits but still

This post has been edited by Ben Adephon Delat: 04 November 2009 - 11:00 PM

[amphibian]

Ben Adephon Delat, on 04 November 2009 - 09:02 PM, said:

Well seeing as it's somewhat related I might as well ask are the children of Elder Gods automatically Ascendents because Envy, Spite and L'oric are all Ascended and their parents are EG's. There's no reason they can't have ascended normally and seeing as they're all soletaken elient and powerful sorcerors there's no reasons they can't have ascended on their own merits but still

The ascendant's children we've seen thus far include Envy, Spite, L'oric, Rake's children and Dassem's daughter. It's pretty fair to say that Envy and Spite are the only two ascendants of the bunch, as well as being the only Elder spawn.

There might be something in later books, but that's for later books.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 04 November 2009 - 11:02 PM

[Ben Adephon Delat]

Well regular gods and elder gods I'd assume which ones your parent makes a difference but as I said it makes as much sense for them to get a leg up in the Ascendency game thanks to their lineage as it does for them to have done it on their lonesome

[Roldom]

what do u thinks gonna happen when goddess of thieves meets Apsalar the assassin? dont those two ghosts of dragons (teleorast and curdle i think) mention meeting the original Apsalar'a? and would the goddess recognise them?

[geNESis]

Roldom, on 27 February 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

what do u thinks gonna happen when goddess of thieves meets Apsalar the assassin? dont those two ghosts of dragons (teleorast and curdle i think) mention meeting the original Apsalar'a? and would the goddess recognise them?

DoD

Spoiler

Telorast and Curdle are no longer with Apsalar

[Aptorian]

geNESis, on 27 February 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

Roldom, on 27 February 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

what do u thinks gonna happen when goddess of thieves meets Apsalar the assassin? dont those two ghosts of dragons (teleorast and curdle i think) mention meeting the original Apsalar'a? and would the goddess recognise them?

DoD

Spoiler

Telorast and Curdle are no longer with Apsalar

That's more like a RG spoiler. She left them in Lether, if she even travelled all the way to that continent with the fleet.

[flea]

D, on 04 November 2009 - 05:04 AM, said:

No, not really. Draconus is just an Elder God that is aspected to Darkness, from around the same generation as K'rul, Mael, Ossric, etc. (ie the generations after MD, FL, Tiam). Unlike Osric, who appears to be Light-aspected (among other things), Draconus does not seem to be directly descended from Light or Dark and therefore not Tiste-like, whereas Osric is the "First Son of Dark and Light" (to quote Sukul Ankhadu), though he is not a particular Tiste race either (unlike Rake, who really is an Andii).

Draconus is labeled as one of the Elder Gods "of this world" ('this' being the malaziworld), but like K'rul, Mael and the other malazi-EGs, he still had association with MD and such. The uniqueness of Draconus' situation, I guess, is that unlike K'rul, Mael, Killy, etc who had their own unique aspects, Draconus' was also Darkness and hence his role such as Suzerain of Night.


In summary: it's complicated and mostly speculation.

I recently did a re-read of MoI. In the prologue, Draconus, K'rul, and Nightchill refer to each other as brother and sister. Are they being literal or figurative?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I've always believed they were being figurative. More like Brother Elder God than actual relatives