[Illuyankas]

As an aside, am I the only one who thinks that Perrin's ability to kill women (even if it's only the ones who are trying to kill him) - Mat's freezing up after Melindhra or whatever her name was and Rand's famous issues, while Perrin is happy to chop through whoever's in front of him even if he has to pretend they're all guys - as a direct result of being married to Faile? He may tell people he's happy but his subconscious is saying something quite different.

[Terez]

It might be, but Perrin is a much more straightforward thinker, in general, than Mat and Rand. You can follow the loops in the logic of those two, especially Rand, but Perrin doesn't really think that way.

[Illuyankas]

Stop getting your book discussion in my joke, damn it.

[Abyss]

Terez, on 03 December 2009 - 06:06 PM, said:

LOL Taimandred lives! Brandon confirmed on tour that we have seen Mesaana on screen as of Knife of Dreams (RJ confirmed it as of Crossroads), but NOT Demandred. I figure he probably doesn't really need an alter ego, but based on the BS and RJ quotes, a lot of people think he's either a) in Shara organizing the Ayyad, or Roedran, king of Murandy (who united all the nobles, becoming Murandy's 'first real king', and who made a deal with Talmanes and the Band). I figure he's probably got his finger in a lot of honeypots, and we know from Sammael that Demandred is fond of using proxies. Taim might well be one of them - it would fit a lot of evidence, such as the fact that Moridin apparently wasn't around when Taim was freed, and when the Black Tower was founded, and the fact that we know Demandred gave direct orders to some of Taim's Asha'man.

TOLL THE HOUNDS SPOILER:

Spoiler

"There are no Hounds of Light." SE, a year or two before TtH.

- Abyss, ...is just saying....

[Illuyankas]

It does give off a massive 'Taim was meant to be Demandred, until too many people started guessing it and Jordan changed it' vibe.

[Myshkin]

So I finished it last week, and really liked it. There are some stylistic idiosyncrasies peculiar to Sanderson that I picked up on, but all in all as long as I wasn't actively trying to figure out who wrote which part, it was a WoT story, and I didn't care who wrote it.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

I don't know if these were Jordan's intentions, or if they were Sanderson's take on things, but a few points I really liked: Cadsuane, while being even more of a horrible bitch, was no longer being presented as a righteous, knowledgeable savior, but instead was being presented as a self-involved bully; and Perrin, while still something of a whiny douche, has at least admitted to himself that his whole "nothing matters but Faile" bullshit was completely dishonorable for a man of his responsibilities.

Egwene's chapter were a lot of fun, but I liked her chapters in KoD too, so no big surprise.

Aviendha's storyline was both boring and predictable.

Mat was a little off, but as someone else already pointed out, the real problem with the Mat chapters was Talmenes.

Loved the resolution of Verin's storyline.

Really loved how Sanderson managed to meld the Black Ajah hunters stuff with Edgwene's chapters, so we didn't have to sit through endless pages of bullshit involving women who's names we can't keep straight.

Rand's stuff was pretty awesome, and I'm good with his resolution. Although I agree that the Greandal showdown was something of a letdown.

Anyway, I can't wait for the next installment.

[alt146]

Finished the book yesterday. Thought it was a fairly decent read, much more in line with the older books than anything that happened books 7 - 10.

General Comments:

Most of this has been said already, but it's pretty lame to just say that I agree with most of the above.

It's been way too long since I read Knife of Dreams (Got it as soon as it was released here) so it was difficult for me to pinpoint the differences between Jordan and Sanderson's style. I think BS did a good enough job and will definitely get the next two. That said some of the descriptions and phrases seemed a little too 'hey dont forget we're in randland', especially with regard to Siuan. Still had a fair idea what was going on, there were just enough reminders of what happened in the last books to not be completely lost.

None of the characters where unbelievable, but I was a bit disappointed that nothing really happened in Mat and Perrin's chapters. They've both had a bit of screentime in the last few books, so I didnt expect to see them much, but Mat could have done slightly more storyline related stuff in the time he was around.

AND THEN SPOILERS

HAND REMOVING, EYE LOSING SPOILERS


Personally I've been really annoyed by Rand's emoness ever since he started going crazy. I gather not everyone feels this way and I know it's important and portentious, but Rand's whining was what killed the last few books in my opinion. I was really glad that he actually started doing shit and had a bit of 'awh crap not more of this' moment after he decides to be like cuellendar. As glad as I am that plot has been semi-resolved in the last chapter (we'll see how things go in the next book), it did feel a little rushed. I liked the 'he will stand on his grave' part of it, it did come a little suddenly. I vaguely recalled a prophecy about Rand having to spend time as a beggar, I thought when he travelled into seanchan lands it would be the start of that.

Egwene was awesome in this book, I enjoyed reading her chapters and I'm really glad the white tower's split has finally been resolved, it was really starting to drag out.

A couple of things seemed a little convenient, especially Verin rocking up and revealing all of the black ajah, but with the huge number of threads that still need to be resolved I can understand Sanderson having to take one or too shortcuts to get things were they need to be.

[Terez]

alt146, on 20 December 2009 - 07:13 PM, said:

Spoiler

A couple of things seemed a little convenient, especially Verin rocking up and revealing all of the black ajah, but with the huge number of threads that still need to be resolved I can understand Sanderson having to take one or too shortcuts to get things were they need to be.

Spoiler

Well, the Great Purge was foreshadowed in book 3 (Egwene's Accepted test where she was Amyrlin), and by book 10 at the latest, it was pretty clear that the Black Ajah Hunters in the Tower, along with Egwene (who would meet them via the rebel ferrets, under the Hunters' control) were going to nab Alviarin, who knew the name of every Black Ajah member by virtue of being its head, and that the Great Purge would happen thus—there were tons of bits of evidence pointing to that, not least the letter that Alviarin wrote to Rand back in book 5, that Egwene knew about, that Elaida explicitly cited in her original orders to Seaine: to hunt out treason, and not to leave Alviarin out of her search (she mentioned having knowledge of a 'treasonous correspondence' between Alviarin and the Dragon Reborn). Egwene even thought about it in her one chapter in Knife of Dreams, when she met Alviarin in the Tower gardens (and she thought about bringing it up, but then decided that it was the sort of information that could only be used once).

Meanwhile Alviarin was working on a plan to nab the two Aes Sedai that she suspected of uncovering Talene, the Black Sitter for the Green. She even had orders from Shaidar Haran. So for Verin to pop in out of nowhere and steal Alviarin's glory, by virtue of having taken uncounted risks for seventy years to study and record the Black Ajah for the purposes of one day revealing them, and for her to die in order to deliver that information to Egwene, was a nice twist for the hardcore fans who were paying enough attention to fall for the red herring. Was also a nice twist for the old 'is Verin Black Ajah' debate. Most fans stopped believing that years ago, but it seems like every noob that ever joined a WoT forum believed she was Black (and that Olver was Demandred, I mean Gaidal Cain). Those who believed she was Black were right, but those who had gotten to know Verin and to trust her were right too. The Purple Ajah people were close too.

Anyway, 'convenient' wasn't really in it —Alviarin was already there and quite convenient. We have been wanting to know what Verin was up to since book 2, and I like the fact that in the end, it turned out to be something essentially unpredictable. And I realllllllly doubt that Brandon had much to do with the way that went down. He wrote it, but he wrote it the way RJ wanted. RJ's notes, according to Harriet, are even more extensive than the books themselves, so I'm quite sure that Verin's backstory and purpose and such were detailed there. He had an outline for the 'last book', and Brandon has said at signings that his actual contributions to these events were minor, that most things were either written by RJ or dictated in the notes.

As for another much-predicted revelation, the scene with the Ajah Heads.....that one came off to me as something that RJ would not have done, or that he would have done differently, and I didn't like it. At first I thought that maybe it was just because I was expecting it, so it seemed anti-climactic (despite the unpredicted details that were thrown in). But I think RJ would have been more subtle about it (he likes to make us read his characters like you have to read people in real life, even when we're inside their thoughts, it's rarely a straightforward process). Anyway, it doesn't much bother me any more, and I read it in the same way I read the ridiculous male-female relations in the earlier books, etc.—as a parody. BS has his own way of doing it, and that's what he did with this scene, and I'm cool with that.

[alt146]

Hehe, talking to you makes me realise how little attention I paid when reading the books. Is Olver not Gaidal Cain? (That's the legendary bow-lady's lover right?), I thought it was made pretty clear that he was.

[Illuyankas]

No, no, he's

Spoiler

Arthur Hawkwing

[Terez]

alt146, on 21 December 2009 - 07:13 AM, said:

Hehe, talking to you makes me realise how little attention I paid when reading the books. Is Olver not Gaidal Cain? (That's the legendary bow-lady's lover right?), I thought it was made pretty clear that he was.

He isn't.

Quote

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 20 January 2003 - Dayton, OH

Q: Is Olver Gaidal Cain?

RJ: No. I didn't really think that this would last as long as it has. The timing is wrong. He has another reason for being there besides being a red herring, though.

Q: He's too old.

RJ: Yes. Time in Tel'aran'rhiod and the real world run at different rates, but it never runs backwards. You may spend an hour in Tel'aran'rhiod, and a day has passed when you get back, or you may spend a day, and an hour has passed when you get back, but you'll never go in on Tuesday and come back on Monday.

Q: Is the difference in time constant?

RJ: No. It's fairly random. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes the same as real time.

Q: It's different for different people, then?

RJ: Yes. Unless they're together in Tel'aran'rhiod. Then the same amount of time passes for them obviously.

This post has been edited by Terez: 21 December 2009 - 09:12 PM

[K'Chain Bull'shite]

Started reading this out of loyalty - it became a sedative of shocking efficacy before I stopped reading altogether. Sad that it came to this but I couldn't care less about what happens next

[Sinisdar Toste]

wow not even the egwene parts? i got shivers down my spine every time she spoke near the end of the book!

(ALSO POSTING MAJOR SPOILERS, IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING)

anyway, i was satisfied with this book. almost entirely. the perrin scenes weren't to interesting, not that they needed to be, and mat was good i thought, just maybe where BS had strayed most obviously from the Mat of RJ, and whose to say? maybe loving tuon is changing the man. talmanes i was just glad to see some levity out of.

of course egwene was the bomb, dumbfounding every Aes Sedai she encountered. especially during the battle when she just declares herself in charge and everyones all, "as if we could stop you"

also enjoyed the rand chapters immensely, nynaeve and min trying desperately to break through his madness, they debacle in the stone of tear, then dragonmount, with that neat little bit about mountain climbing tossed in earlier to foreshadow.

all in all i'd have to say i'm back in and definitly want to see what happens next.

to me, the prophecy "he will hold a sword of light and the three will become one" refers to rand, lews and moridin, but seeing as rand and lews kind of merge at the end of the book leaves me wondering if nynaeve, alivia and rand will wield callandor in the last battle

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 29 December 2009 - 08:42 AM

[Terez]

Illuyankas, on 21 December 2009 - 07:30 AM, said:

No, no, he's

Spoiler

Arthur Hawkwing

Speaking of Artur Hawkwing....the new sword that Rand got in The Gathering Storm is Justice. Relevant quotes:

Quote

TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 1 - Tears from Steel

He relaxed his hand on his sword, though he did not release it. He fingered the cloth-tied hilt. The weapon was long, slightly curved, and the lacquered scabbard was painted with a long, sinuous dragon of red and gold. It looked as if it had been designed specifically for Rand—and yet it was centuries old, unearthed only recently. How odd, that they should find this now, he thought, and make a gift of it to me, completely unaware of what they were holding. . . .

He had taken to wearing the sword immediately. It felt right beneath his fingers. He had told no one, not even Min, that he had recognized the weapon. And not, oddly, from Lews Therin's memories—but Rand's own.

Quote

TITLE - The Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: 37 - A Force of Light

He stood, reaching for the sword which leaned against his clothing chest. The black scabbard, with its lacquered red and gold dragon, sparkled in the light. Such a strange weapon those scholars had found beneath the submerged statue. The sword felt so old. Was Rand wearing it today as a symbol of something? A sign, perhaps, that he was riding to battle?

"You're going after her, aren't you?" Min found herself asking. "Graendal."

"I have to fix what problems I can," Rand said, pulling the ancient sword from the sheath and checking the blade. There was no heron mark, but the fine steel blade glistened in the lamplight, showing the undulating lines of its folded metal. It had been Power-forged, he claimed. He seemed to know things about it he did not share.

Quote

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

Q: What's up with Rand's sword? Was it Lews Therin's?
A: There are some really good theories out there on the message boards and I don't have anything to add on this.

I followed up on where it was found, basically 'In water, under a statue, not near Falme'.

Quote

Email correspondence with Brandon 21 November 2009 - Kathana Trevalaer reporting, via Luckers at Dragonmount

Rand gets a new sword in chapter one. It has been confirmed by Kathana Travaeler that this is Justice through direct email correspondence with Brandon and Maria.

There was still some confusion as to why Hawkwing's sword would have a dragon on it. But Hawkwing's rise to fame was on the harrying and eventual defeat of Guaire Amalasan, a false Dragon who could channel. He was a ta'veren, and the Amyrlin he dealt with - Bonwhin, the last Red Amyrlin before Elaida - was eventually deposed and stilled for her crimes (the last Aes Sedai to be stilled before Siuan). There was some attempt on the part of the Tower to reconcile with him, but knowing Aes Sedai they continued to be high-handed about it. In any case, the first year of Artur's reign is when he began his Consolidation, on the heels of his defeat of Amalasan, and also on the heels of some unpleasant business in Tar Valon between Hawkwing and the Aes Sedai. The Aes Sedai don't even mention his being there, but other sources confirm that he was. Then, as now, the Aes Sedai were more concerned with their Power over people than with their responsibility to people, and Hawkwing clearly got the shaft.

He fought Amalasan for three years, never once losing a battle when he faced Amalasan directly. It all came down to one battle, of course:

Quote

TITLE - The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time
CHAPTER: 11 - The Second Dragon and the Rise of Artur Hawkwing

The decisive engagements of the war, already being called the War of the Second Dragon, came in the spring of Free Year 943, between two armies that were unaware of one another until they were so close they had no choice but to fight. Artur Hawkwing was moving south out of Tova, across the Maraside Mountains (along the present southern border of Cairhien), to join the fighting in Khodomar. Various sources differ only slightly in the details. Hawkwing had approximately twenty-three thousand foot and twelve thousand horse, of whom some were probably Tar Valon soldiers, and an indeterminate number of Aes Sedai. Amalasan, with some forty-one thousand foot and twenty-six thousand horse, apparently intended to cross the Marasides and strike into Tova; he was known for leaping past what others considered the obvious battlefield to open battle in his enemy's rear.

Hawkwing came out of the Marasides by the Jolvaine Pass, not far from the small town of Endersole, to find his forward scouts making contact with Amalasan's, approaching the pass from the south. Whether as the Battle of Endersole or the Battle of Jolvaine Pass, the next two days would be studied avidly by military men over the following thousand years.

The region was, then as now, heavily forested, hilly and rugged, severely limiting the usefulness of cavalry, and Amalasan dismounted a great portion of his, using them as foot. The day went very much Amalasan's way. Both armies suffered heavy casualties, but Amalasan could better afford them. Twice only the quick deployment of Hawkwing's forces kept them from being outflanked. The Aes Sedai, whatever their number, were barely able to match Amalasan's use of the One Power in battle, and by nightfall it was a miracle that Hawkwing still held his army together. (Wrote an anonymous contemporary: "It was only by the Grace of the Light - or else by that Shadow-given gift of making men follow him even to sure and certain death.")

For any other general, the course to follow would have been obvious - retreat through the pass in the darkness with the remnants of his army. Hawkwing, though was not any other general. He began a retreat north toward the pass; as soon as he was certain that Amalasan's scouts had seen this, Hawkwing's rear guard began fierce skirmishing as if to protect the fleeing army, thus screening the forces from Amalasan's scouts. Hawkwing divided his troops, in contravention of established military thought, and sent them east and west.

Amalasan no doubt believed the reports of his scouts implicitly, and only the most rabidly unfriendly contemporary commentators count it against him as a military leader. Quick retreat through the pass was the best move for an outnumbered and defeated army, and only a madman would contemplate a flanking attack over that terrible terrain at night. A madman, or a general whose troops who would follow him even into the Pit of Doom.

When the first gray light of dawn broke, Amalasan's army was preparing to move on the pass, all attention directed north. It was then that Hawkwing struck. His divided infantry fell on Amalasan's encampment from the east and the west, while his cavalry, having completed a night ride of some fifty miles, struck from the south.

Caught by surprise, Amalasan's forces came very near collapse in the first half-hour. Amalasan could have rallied them and turned the battle his way - he had done as much before - but Hawkwing and his horsemen drove straight for Amalasan's banner, with them the Aes Sedai, and Amalasan was taken. (Given his ability to channel, stories of a man-to-man duel between him and Hawkwing must be discarded; Hawkwing himself always denied it.) Once the news began to spread, Amalasan's army did collapse.

Military doctrine of the time dictated the pursuit of a defeated army, not only to keep it from returning but to destroy it as completely as possible. As so often before and after, Hawkwing ignored "what must be done"; as quickly as he could pull his forces together, he sped north through the Jolvaine Pass and pressed hard for Tar Valon.

The first recorded conflict between Hawkwing and Aes Sedai came at the border of Tar Valon. By White Tower law, no one could enter its lands with more than twenty armed retainers and a like number unarmed. Hawkwing took his entire army to within a few miles of the bridges leading across the Osendrelle Erinin to Tar Valon itself. Whether he did this in the face of opposition from the Aes Sedai accompanying him, or whether the Tar Valon component of the army had suffered so greatly that those Aes Sedai actually requested Hawkwing's escort to Tar Valon itself, will never be certain. It is known that the Aes Sedai who came with him, the women who had survived the battle and shielded Guaire Amalasan, went straight from a public heroes' welcome to terms of penance that the Tower kept secret for a number of years.

Within a day of his arrival a curt message was delivered to Hawkwing from the Amyrlin Seat, Bonwhin Meraighdin; he was given five days to rest his army, after which he was to lead them beyond Tar Valon's borders without delay.

Anyway, some of Amalasan's followers decided to attack Tar Valon in an attempt to free Amalasan while Hawkwing was still camped within Tar Valon's borders. Hawkwing fought them and won. Since the Aes Sedai don't publicly record the presence of Hawkwing's army, we don't know if he was asked to fight Amalasan's followers, or if he simply took the initiative, but the entire ordeal caused bad blood between Hawkwing and the Tower. The Consolidation took 20 years, and the last nation to fall to Hawkwing was Aldeshar, where Ishara's grandfather was king (and Mat remembers being the general in the final battle, the last general to fall to Hawkwing). After Hawkwing's death, Ishara set up in Caemlyn - Andor was a Hawkwing province at the time, governed by Ishara's mother, the daughter of the last king of Aldeshar. Caemlyn was not originally in Aldeshar, but probably in neighboring Caembarin, between Aldeshar and Hawkwing's home nation, Shandalle (map), but the stedding where Hawkwing was to build his capital city was not far west of Caemlyn.

Quote

TITLE - The Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 29 - Eyes Without Pity

Eventually they straggled over one more rise, and at the base of this hill lay a pool of water. Any of them could have waded across it in two strides, but it was clear and clean enough to show the sandy bottom like a sheet of glass. Even Elyas hurried eagerly down the slope.

...

What showed above ground of the big rock was rounded somewhat, with a sharp break on one side where moss, old and brown, covered the ragged surface. The grooves and hollows eroded in the rounded part looked odd to Perrin, but he was too absorbed in gloom to wonder about it. Egwene, though, studied it as she ate.

"That," she said finally, "looks like an eye." Perrin blinked; it did look like an eye, under all that soot.

"It is," Elyas said. He sat with his back to the fire and the rock, studying the land around them while he chewed a strip of dried meat almost as tough as leather. "Artur Hawkwing's eye. The eye of the High King himself. This is what his power and glory came to, in the end." He said it absently. Even his chewing was absentminded; his eyes and his attention were on the hills.

"Artur Hawkwing!" Egwene exclaimed. "You're joking with me. It isn't an eye at all. Why would somebody carve Artur Hawkwing's eye on a rock out here?"

Elyas glanced over his shoulder at her, muttering, "What do they teach you village whelps?" He snorted and straightened back to his watching, but he went on talking. "Artur Paendrag Tanreall, Artur Hawkwing, the High King, united all the lands from the Great Blight to the Sea of Storms, from the Aryth Ocean to the Aiel Waste, and even some beyond the Waste. He even sent armies the other side of the Aryth Ocean. The stories say he ruled the whole world, but what he really did rule was enough for any man outside of a story. And he brought peace and justice to the land."

"All stood equal before the law," Egwene said, "and no man raised his hand against another."

"So you've heard the stories, at least." Elyas chuckled, a dry sound. "Artur Hawkwing brought peace and justice, but he did it with fire and sword. A child could ride alone with a bag of gold from the Aryth Ocean to the Spine of the World and never have a moment's fear, but the High King's justice was as hard as that rock there for anyone who challenged his power, even if it was just by being who they were, or by people thinking they were a challenge. The common folk had peace, and justice, and full bellies, but he laid a twenty-year siege to Tar Valon and put a price of a thousand gold crowns on the head of every Aes Sedai."

"I thought you didn't like Aes Sedai," Egwene said.

Elyas gave a wry smile. "Doesn't matter what I like, girl. Artur Hawkwing was a proud fool. An Aes Sedai healer could have saved him when he took sick – or was poisoned, as some say – but every Aes Sedai still alive was penned up behind the Shining Walls, using all their Power to hold off an army that lit up the night with their campfires. He wouldn't have let one near him, anyway. He hated Aes Sedai as much as he hated the Dark One."

Egwene's mouth tightened, but when she spoke, all she said was, "What does all that have to do with whether that's Artur Hawkwing's eye?"

"Just this, girl. With peace except for what was going on across the ocean, with the people cheering him wherever he went – they really loved him, you see; he was a harsh man, but never with the common folk – well, with all of that, he decided it was time to build himself a capital. A new city, not connected in any man's mind with any old cause or faction or rivalry. Here, he'd build it, at the very center of the land bordered by the seas and the Waste and the Blight. Here, where no Aes Sedai would ever come willing, or could use the Power if they did. A capital from which, one day, the whole world would receive peace and justice. When they heard the proclamation, the common people subscribed enough money to build a monument to him. Most of them looked on him as only a step below the Creator. A short step. It took five years to carve and build. A statue of Hawkwing, himself, a hundred times bigger than the man. They raised it right here, and the city was to rise around it."

"There was never any city here," Egwene scoffed. "There would have to be something left if there was. Something."

Elyas nodded, still keeping his watch. "Indeed there was not. Artur Hawkwing died the very day the statue was finished, and his sons and the rest of his blood fought over who would sit on Hawkwing's throne. The statue stood alone in the midst of these hills. The sons and the nephews and the cousins died, and the last of the Hawkwing's blood vanished from the earth – except maybe for some of those who went over the Aryth Ocean. There were those who would have erased even the memory of him, if they could. Books were burned just because they mentioned his name. In the end there was nothing left of him but the stories, and most of them wrong. That's what his glory came to.

"The fighting didn't stop, of course, just because the Hawkwing and his kin were dead. There was still a throne to be won, and every lord and lady who could muster fighting men wanted it. It was the beginning of the War of the Hundred Years. Lasted a hundred and twenty-three, really, and most of the history of that time is lost in the smoke of burning towns. Many got a part of the land, but none got the whole, and sometime during those years the statue was pulled down. Maybe they couldn't stand measuring themselves against it any longer."

CHAPTER: 30 - Children of Shadow

At the base of the hill he studied the massive, flat rock outlined against the sky, jutting out the slope almost at the crest. There was an odd familiarity to the way the top of the huge slab seemed to form irregular steps, three up and one down. He climbed the short distance and felt across the stone, walking along it. Despite the weathering of centuries he could still feel four joined columns. He glanced up at the step-like top of the stone, towering over his head like a huge lean-to. Fingers. We'll shelter in Artur Hawkwing's hand. Maybe some of his justice is left here.

And finally, a bit from the prophecies:

Quote

TITLE - The Eye of the World
EPIGRAM

And it came to pass in those days, as it had come before and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Creator, saying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.

(from Charal Drianaan to Calamon,
The Cycle of the Dragon.
Author unknown, the Fourth Age)

What is particularly interesting to me about all this is the parallel to the current Consolidation being attempted by Tuon. Elayne's heritage is that of the last nation to fall to Hawkwing, and Elayne seems set up to be the last to fall to Tuon as well, as she is Rand's baby's mama and she is a marath'damane, and everything about her plotline suggests that she would never bow to the Seanchan. The Last Battle may very well be preempted by a battle at Caemlyn, a parallel to the Battle of Camlann. Many parallels to Arthurian legend and even this battle in particular have been laced through the books, not least Rand's never-healing wounds (from Moridin and Mordeth, two Mordred figures), and the manner in which he fought Ishamael at Falme. So there are several things pointing to a battle at Caemlyn:

1. The Black Tower. Taim is preparing for war, and this is also the most likely place for the Black Ajah to have escaped. Also, 47 rebel Aes Sedai and 6 Reds are still missing - they went there to bond Warders. Demandred's plans likely revolve around this battle, and Demandred is a Mordred figure. Moridin is also involved with the Black Tower, and he was in charge of the Darkfriends that Elayne recently captured in Caemlyn (including some of Liandrin's thirteen, and Shiaine).

2. The Seanchan. Mat is in Caemlyn, and Tuon is starting to wish she had him back. He's got to go to Ghenjei soon, but she doesn't know that. Then there is a viewing that Min had about Elayne, a severed hand, not Elayne's. Some think this refers to the Band of the Red Hand. There is some foreshadowing of this on the road to Ebou Dar, when Elayne inspects Mat's troops, and they fall in love with her. If Mat has to go to Ghenjei, then he will most likely leave the Band in Caemlyn, which will likely be attacked while he is gone.

3. Egwene and Gawyn. Egwene's interests are tied to three things now: Mesaana, the Black Ajah escapees, and Rand. She seems less concerned with the Seanchan, and less interested in pursuing anything offensive in that direction. This along with her friendship with Elayne might draw her to Caemlyn. She can't meet Elayne in the Dream because Elayne can't make her ter'angreal work, and Gawyn will likely want to visit Elayne as well. There is probably going to be some sort of confrontation between Gawyn and Rand.

4. Perrin and Galad. They are going to head to Caemlyn as well, presumably. Caemlyn would be a good place for Perrin to confront Slayer. There's been build-up for that as Perrin tries to learn more about the Wolf Dream in this book. Maybe Slayer will try to assassinate Rand again - some suspect that it was Demandred who ordered Slayer to kill Rand and Min in Far Madding; others believe it was Aran'gar. In any case, both are still alive, and Luc is Andoran, would have been Tigraine's First Prince of the Sword if she had become queen rather than running off to the Waste. Galad and his Whitecloaks are interested in fighting two fronts: the Seanchan, and the Shadow. Both might show up in Caemlyn.

5. Elayne. She is a marath'damane queen, and a likely target for Tuon, if Tuon learns of it. She also has the potential to draw Rand into a battle at Caemlyn - if she is threatened, he will most likely get a little angry (another Camlann parallel).

[Tervvo]

God story,terrible author.
Three instead of one.
60-90 bucks instead of 20-30 for them of course.

Authors descriptions have nothing to do with Jordan.
Is the guy Tracy Hickman with an alias?(apologies to Tracy)

That beeing said I bought the book.
But the same as i did when Jordan lost his way to many of us,
I will be getting this from the public library next time.

Learn from Jordan and do copy him, don't take his outline and make an epic average.

[CreepingFlesh]

I liked the idea of the WoT series but fell out with the books by the end of book 5. I felt that things were getting milked out for the sake of it and it annoyed me. Partly RJ's writing style and partly me. I toiled through the remaining books until I thought things picked up a bit in book 10.

I bought this book at Christmas for one specific reason........to see the end of the bloody series. I wanted a resolution after waiting so long.

So what did I get. Well the Foreword really pissed me right off and to be honest I almost threw the book away.....not a good start!!!

This is what annoyed me:

"But the manuscript soon grew prohibitivly huge; it would be three times the size of a regular Wheel of Time book, and the decision was made......to split A Memory of Light into thirds.....I beg your patience as we spend the next few years perfecting the story..."


So much for my anticipation of a resolution.
I did not know much about BS but his writing is decent enough from my perspective, although noticably different from RJ.
Like others who have posted I though parts of the story (Rand, Egwene and Cadsuane) we good and the parts about Mat/Perrin were very uninteresting.

For all you die hard WoT fans the thought of another two books in this "epic" series must be exciting.....for me personally I see it as an opportunity to milk more money out of avid fans.
I for one will wait until my local library stocks any forthcoming titles

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I was thinking of the Callandor prophecy about the Dragon Reborn in the book that Min was reading over. Something like "He will hold a sword of fire and the three will become one." I was over at dragonmount and read a couple pages of posts and didn't see this theory, so I thought I'd throw it out here, since I don't have an account there. Rand somehow uses Callandor to bring together the last three factions remaining. His forces, the Seanchan, and the White Tower. Or he is at least holding it as the alliance is created.

Now one of the knowledgeable WoT ppl let me know how feasible this is as an outcome.

[Illuyankas]

I was thinking it'd be Rand forming a circle with Elayne and Aviendha while using it, but yours works too.

[Terez]

Eh, the 'three shall become one' thing could just about refer to anything, but most people tend to not favor anything to do with political factions coming together, for two primary reasons:

1. The Aelfinn told him that the east and the north must be as one, and the west and the south must be as one, and the TWO must be as one. This seems to speak against the 'three shall become one' as referring to political factions. It's 2+2=1.

2. The bad interpretation of the prophecy had to do with political factions as well, so it's most likely something else.

The 'blade of light' might possibly refer to Justice (which 'shone like a mirror' in Hawkwing's hands), rather than Callandor.

Some think the 3=1 refers to the three ta'veren, coming together for the first time since book 3, using their ta'verenness to fix the hole in the Pattern. But it's not as simple as a circle of three with Callandor, even if that interpretation is correct; Min knows there is something else about the passage that she has yet to winkle out.

[Malaclypse]

It's unadulterated rubbish in my opinion. It's not like Sanderson (henceforth referred to as BS and not without residual meaning) had much of a choice, with RJ's widow being the editor and legions of fans wanting exactly whatRJ would have written. In the meantime I grew up and got interested in adult-oriented fantasy. It's vaguely disturbing what BS has achieved here - a faithful copying of RJ's so-called 'style'...Mat still has no clue how to deal with women and we must listen to his endless internal ramnblings on the subject and my, isn't Egwene a trooper...and let's not forget that Gareth Bryne is so noble and honourable that those characteristics are mentioned every single time we see or hear about him in the text, anywhere. It's a faithful copy and unreadable to me. Good luck, BS, because you've lost my interest and respect.