[Terez]

[quote name='Aptorian' date='27 September 2009 - 05:35 AM' timestamp='1254047732' post='681645']
[quote name='Terez' date='27 September 2009 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1254045880' post='681640']
[quote name='Apt']I really would like to enjoy WoT but it's like he takes 300 or 400 page books and then just crams bullshit in between the good stuff. He starts every book off slow, using some 100 to 200 pages to tell you everything you just read in the last book[/quote]

RJ doesn't do this at all.
[/quote]

He does too. The last book I read, the 4th, was some 150 pages of people running around in the big rock or in the village below, re-telling everything I just read in the old book or thinking about leaving.[/quote]
Nope. You must be remembering it wrong. They did do a lot of stuff in the Stone before leaving, but it was all important, and there was no re-telling of the previous book. Previous events are mentioned, but only as they're in context with what is happening next. Those chapters are some of my favorites in the books, especially the bits with the boys and Thom, though I loved the bits with the girls too.

[quote name='Apt']There's a difference between starting slow and just stagnating. Erikson doesn't give recaps.[/quote]
Neither does RJ. Goodkind does, though, because he says that each book can be read as a standalone novel or something, so he wants to tell you everything that happened previous.

[quote name='Apt]And he doesn't use the first 100 pages setting the stage.[/quote]
Nah, he takes closer to 500 pages setting the stage, lol.

[Macros]

Apt this is a pointless arguement, Terez is a self confessed fangirl.
Whish is fine, I'm a bit of a fiest fanboy, well everrything pre shards of a broken crown chronologically, the last 3 series were pure dogshit, you won't convince her that WoT should have been stopped at a trilogy, there was a decent endpoint there as far as I remember (its been a while) I believe it was supposed to be a trilogy, but RJ (may he RIP) decided this was a handy tale to spin out and make a truck load of cash out of. I didnt mind the first 3 books, but after that it just got worse and worse. The characters got increasingly iritating, the amount of travelling got obscene and the sillyness of the whole thing just pissed me off to no end. Several major character didn't develop, if anything, they somehow undeveloped. I don't mind the traditional fantasy cliches, hell, my favourite book is probably still magician, its choc full, but WoT characterisations as just laughable in places, eddings level.
For the time the original was penned, I'm sure it was considered epic fantastic fantasy, Indeed when I started it, it wass off the back of lotr and magician, so I was suitably impressed, but I didnt read it in one sit, it was broken up with others, and really pig headed ignorance was the only thing that saw me through it. it just doesn't measure up to modern fantasy, and don't give us another complex book is complex rant please Ter, I've made up my mind that I'm underwhelmed by the story and its dogshit self fullfilling prophecies and pointless side quests to drag the damned thing out, I'd have to spoiler to0 carry on with my reasons for dislike, and I couldn't be arsed. Apt got a nail, and smacked it firmly on the head

I'm going to recommend you read it at some stage, because it is an important bit of fantasy, possibly even breaking the ground for future world spanning obscenely long epics, but I'd wait until at least 2 of the final 3 are out so you can hammer through it in one run.

[Terez]

Macros, on 27 September 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

don't give us another complex book is complex rant please Ter, I've made up my mind

Why shouldn't I? You're allowed to call my favorite books 'dogshit', but I'm not allowed to defend them?

[Illuyankas]

I'll just sum up the opinions of everyone ever, shall I?

Quote

MY LIKES > YOUR LIKES

DEAL WITH IT

[Macros]

what illy said.

I see a spade I call it a spade Ter

[LadyMTL]

OK, moral of the story is: RJ...you either love him or you hate him.
Except me, I don't love him and I don't hate him. His books will always have a place in my heart because Eye of the World is what got me into fantasy in the first place but I'll admit that there are better works out there.

[Salt-Man Z]

I will never love him nor hate him, because I will never read him.

[Use Of Weapons]

If you never read him, then whatever opinion you have of him will be entirely second-hand, which seems a shame.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

jitsukerr, on 29 September 2009 - 10:52 AM, said:

If you never read him, then whatever opinion you have of him will be entirely second-hand, which seems a shame.

That's why I read him, to make an informed decision on my own. That decision is that other than as an intro to fantasy like Eddings, or a historical milestone, it's not worth the time to read.

[Salt-Man Z]

See, I skipped the intro course, and jumped straight into the fantasy master class. Which is why I have no plans to ever read Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks or (any more) David Eddings, among countless others.

There are literally thousands and thousands of fantasy authors that I will never have time to form a personal opinion about, which is too bad, really. In the meantime, I will use others' opinions as best I can in order to discover new authors that I have a higher likelihood of enjoying.

[Wotist]

Aptorian, on 27 September 2009 - 10:35 AM, said:

I knew that I was going to be reading old school 90s fantasy, but I was ready for that. What I was not ready for was poor storytelling choices. The stories are just too longwinded and illogical in places for me to stand them.

Poor storytelling choices, longwindedness, and illogical...didn't you just describe Malazan?

[Illuyankas]

OH SNAP

TROLL IS IN THE HOUSE

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Wotist, on 29 September 2009 - 11:40 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 27 September 2009 - 10:35 AM, said:

I knew that I was going to be reading old school 90s fantasy, but I was ready for that. What I was not ready for was poor storytelling choices. The stories are just too longwinded and illogical in places for me to stand them.

Poor storytelling choices, longwindedness, and illogical...didn't you just describe Malazan?

I wonder if word of our discussion spread to one of the WoT forums.

Or maybe Terez is playing the alt game again...

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I don't think it's Terez. After all she likes Malazan. The idea of someone from WoT is possible but I think it's just a common troll

[Sinisdar Toste]

hey erikson may be long winded, but at least he's long winded on subjects such as the forgiveness and redemption, betrayal and death, not dresses.

[Fredimus]

I have to agree on lots that was written here. RJ's books are a good read IMHO but books 6 to 9 have a really really sloooooooooooow pace. (especially 8, 9 and 10). Too many things happening at the same time in different places and too many descriptions. As a reader, I don't feel I have to know about everything that a charachter is eating. (especially that it is mostly always turnip soup and tea with honey. ) And no matter who's POV it is, there are always lenghty descriptions of what other characters are wearing. Why hte heck would characters like Rand, Perin or Mat care about the details of the robes the girls around them are wearing ?

This post has been edited by Fredimus: 30 September 2009 - 05:43 PM

[Illuyankas]

Rand and Perrin I can agree with, but Mat is a dirty dawg. He's totally eyeing them all up.

[Fredimus]

Illuyankas, on 30 September 2009 - 05:52 PM, said:

Rand and Perrin I can agree with, but Mat is a dirty dawg. He's totally eyeing them all up.

LOL

I know but as a dirty dawg myself, I'm not interested in the cut of their dress or the fabric... but how their butts and boobs are looking.

[BridgeBurner]

Apt, I think you are overreacting.

I have read WoT from the start, and I fully agree with the criticism on books 7-10. But you should give this series some more respect, even if you don't like it. Actually, Jordan was the first to be able to pull a 1-story fantasy series past 3 books. Erikson wouldn't have had a chance if not for Jordan's work.

The original poster just asked if people liked it. A 'no' from you without going into details about why you don't like certain characters would have sufficed.


@Maddog:

Try 'A New Spring' first. It's a small novel. If you like it, move on to WoT. If not, you know enough.

[MecnunK]

I just want Fail to die! Is that so wrong? :/

Seriously though Books 1-5 are great with minor annoyances of repetition & constant whining by some characters. Characters may be one dimensional, tug, sniff, buttered onions (I cant describe how lame & annoying the curses are in these books, they set my teeth on edge) however Jordan created a wonderful world which in turn got him a lot of fans who hung on to every word he wrote from the vivid description of floral patterns on Nynaeve's dress to Moraine's neck line to the landscape our heroes frequently passed through on their journeys. He wrote the series in a classic fantasy mold of good vs evil on a grand scale, unwilling reluctant good guys and supremely evil bad guys. He slowly added all the formulaic cliches from successful fantasy, unique swords with history hinting at myth, warriors without equal, a supreme warrior tribe, decent magic system, orphan farmboy with destiny, prophecy, women warriors etc etc.... I could go on but wont. Basically what this means is that he got the widest possible fanbase as there is something there for most to like however at the cost of 'thinning' the tapestry of the story wider and wider. The longer it went on, the worse it got where he IMO lost control after 5-6 books and started adding plot-lines and characters to prolong it.The motivation was money IMO. That was his mistake because by then it was same'o same'o and getting more annoying by the page, the descriptions got even more vivid and pointless and plotlines consumed hundred's of pages without any real advancement. Basically too much to juggle and keep track..things improved slightly in book 10 I think because there was a conscious effort to close some of the plots but it felt forced and abrupt, damage limitation. If it had been concluded in 5-7 books I think we would agree that it was a series not be missed at any cost but alas.

If you are looking for flaws you will find a lot but you will also find some wonderful writing and truly engrossing & original moments and storylines. If you want a fun series then read it certainly, it is worth reading, take the pain in 6, 7, 8 & 9 and then hopefully a decent finish in the last 3. 10 is ok not on par with the first ones but better than the late middle.