[zenMichael]

I have no clue where to post this question, so I'm throwing it in the forum for the book that I've read up through so far, tBH. OK, so this answer might be REALLY obvious and I'm just overthinking this, but: the Azath. We have Azath Houses, and they seem to have a purpose, as if they had builders, and Azath is there as an adjective. ARE THE AZATH A RACE? I never see them talked about as such, but if they aren't I don't understand what "Azath" is. I know that how the houses work is still supposed to be somewhat of a mystery, but I'm just trying to understand, are the Azath a race? Possibly some out-of-time, out-of-this-dimension race similar to CG or jade statues, OR closer to the K'CCM, just an elder race that's mostly gone at this point, but still, am i overthinking something that's so obvious that's why others haven't brought it up? or am i just totally misreading the way the adjective works here?

Thanks.

[HoosierDaddy]

I would say, no, I don't think they are a race. The Azath House, describes what type of structure it is, and 6 books in, you know they are much more than a "house."

RAFO about Azath.

[Aptorian]

I would call the Azath a force rather than a race, all though there is a suggestion they are alive from the one that died of old age/depression/bad chicken in MT.

They look to be a construct and part of a system, like some kind of magically constructed biological stone defence system with an appetite for power.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 26 December 2009 - 08:04 PM

[zenMichael]

Aptorian, on 09 September 2009 - 03:54 AM, said:

I would cause the Azath a force rather than a race, all though there is a suggestion they are alive from the one that died of old age/depression/bad chicken in MT.

interesting choice of words. we find out in tBH that the chained god is a "force" more than anything else, which REALLY confused me and seemed like it SHOULD really make more sense than it did. (for a while i was like, did they somehow pull down the essence of suffering itself and chain it? but then, how could there still be suffering in the world? if it were chained wouldn't it mean people WOULDN'T suffered? so that's obviously not what that meant)

i'm content to just keep reading, but it was definitely bugging me that i felt i should be able to give a solid 'yes or no' to the question, 'are the azath a race?' and at the time i couldn't.

[paddyt93]

welll i would say no the azath are not a race
they are more a force which appear in a time of need to take the soul of powerful beings which are deemed a threat (Raest for example.....not to sure on th espelling :S)
oh idea here: Made by brun to imprison a soul which i a direct threat to her

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

paddyt93, on 13 December 2009 - 11:19 PM, said:

welll i would say no the azath are not a race
they are more a force which appear in a time of need to take the soul of powerful beings which are deemed a threat (Raest for example.....not to sure on th espelling :S)
oh idea here: Made by brun to imprison a soul which i a direct threat to her

While our information on the Azath is incomplete at best (especially up through this point in the books) they definitely aren't made by Burn as a defense mechanism for herself. I'm not sure where you got that idea from (maybe cuz in gotm Raest talks about making Burn bleed?) but the Azath seem to be a completely sentient race, that have some servants. To be honest the pantheon of gods would probably like to avoid them if at all possible.

Welcome to the boards though paddy.

[Harvester]

I think of the Azath as the materialization of balance in the everlasting war between chaos and order or something like that.

[Juvenis]

I like that. I find it best not to think too hard on the Azath personally As far as I can tell, the Azath houses are like the bouncers of the warrens. They'll let you in and out of 'em and stuff if you're the right person, but if you get of hand they'll take you down!

...but not a race for sure.

[Aptorian]

Juvenis, on 30 December 2009 - 11:37 PM, said:

As far as I can tell, the Azath houses are like the bouncers of the warrens. They'll let you in and out of 'em and stuff if you're the right person, but if you get of hand they'll take you down!

More like bouncers of the physical world and similar worlds where the Azath manifest.

The Azath do not, directly, control or have any say in who comes or goes in the warrens or how that power is dealt... as far as we've seen.

[MiMo]

I would agree with Harvester that the Azath is more a manifestation of balance than a race.

Same with the Crippled God, he is not the manifestation of suffering but of chaos. Well, it's said in the book, that the Warrens are infected with chaos because the CG is interfering (well, at least in the german translation).
That means, the structures (= order) of life or the laws of physics or something are breaking apart so that no one can use the warrens as they were used to. The Azath are defending the structures of life by imprisoning dangerous creatures.

That would be a strong argument for the whole battle-of-chaos-against-order-thing.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

MiMo, on 31 January 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

I would agree with Harvester that the Azath is more a manifestation of balance than a race.

Same with the Crippled God, he is not the manifestation of suffering but of chaos. Well, it's said in the book, that the Warrens are infected with chaos because the CG is interfering (well, at least in the german translation).
That means, the structures (= order) of life or the laws of physics or something are breaking apart so that no one can use the warrens as they were used to. The Azath are defending the structures of life by imprisoning dangerous creatures.

That would be a strong argument for the whole battle-of-chaos-against-order-thing.

The Crippled God isn't a manifestation of anything. He was summoned from an alien realm by a group of mages from Kallor's old empire and fell down to the earth in a fall that completely crippled him and left him in extreme anguish. He uses chaos now, presumably because he no longer has access to his natural power, and it is the best warren for trying to cause pain and suffering and weakening the world around him.

[Harvester]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 31 January 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

The Crippled God isn't a manifestation of anything. He was summoned from an alien realm by a group of mages from Kallor's old empire and fell down to the earth in a fall that completely crippled him and left him in extreme anguish. He uses chaos now, presumably because he no longer has access to his natural power, and it is the best warren for trying to cause pain and suffering and weakening the world around him.

I would rather say chaos uses The Crippled God as a medium and thus he may now very well be a manifestation of chaos. He speaks chaos after all.
Bahaha, my theory is that TCG is god.

This post has been edited by Harvester: 01 February 2010 - 12:07 PM

[MiMo]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 31 January 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

The Crippled God isn't a manifestation of anything. He was summoned from an alien realm by a group of mages from Kallor's old empire and fell down to the earth in a fall that completely crippled him and left him in extreme anguish. He uses chaos now, presumably because he no longer has access to his natural power, and it is the best warren for trying to cause pain and suffering and weakening the world around him.

I'm sorry, nothing you said is a real argument against the theory of TCG being a manifestation of chaos. It is completely unimportant where he comes from and how he got there. The point is what he is doing -> he destroys the structures of life. Sorry, but that's chaos in my opinion.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

NO, Chaos is neither bad or good. Only because people like Hairlock or the CG used it doesn't mean it's automatically something horribe. Chaos is just what can be found between the Warrens and the CG probably uses it because , being greatly injured and a completely alien entity, it's the easiest thing for him to get his hands on.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think the distinction here is one of semantics. the CG isn't a manifestation of chaos, but he does manifest it himself through his actions.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

@Mimo

Sinisdar Toste, on 02 February 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

i think the distinction here is one of semantics. the CG isn't a manifestation of chaos, but he does manifest it himself through his actions.

This.

I was just saying he wasn't created by chaos.

[alt146]

There was a crazily complicated (and slightly crazy too) theory about the azath houses pinning warrens in place amongst other things. Unfortunately I think it got eaten in one of the crashes or is lost somewhere in the murky depths of the forum. It was pretty cool though.

At this point noone really knows anything about them, but balancing power does seem to be their main function. I think it's in TtH that you learn a little bit more about them and how they are formed, but I can't be sure.

[MiMo]

Ok, I agree with Sinisdar Toste that the problem here is due to shortness of posts and language things.

@WJD:

I agree, of course the CG was not created by or out of chaos, he may have had nothing to do with chaos in his original sphere.
Perhaps to say he represents chaos in "our" sphere is more fitting. I'm a bit Moorcocked about this chaos-order-thing XD

@Bauchelain:

I don't think that chaos is bad or horrible, it's just one side of the coin. Life can only exist on the edge between chaos and order, if it tips into one direction it will be destroyed. Life needs structure(= order: cell structures, circle of life, day and night, physical rules) and life needs growth and change(= chaos: evolution, mutation). It needs balance(= Azath).

Well, at least thats my current point of view/information. Give me some time to read the other books, then lets talk again

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think thats a pretty good understanding of the situation.

whereabouts are you in the series?

[MiMo]

I finished Bonehunters yesterday.

omg, I was nearly dying at the Malaz-scene. It was such a horrible tension and I just thought NONONONONONONO! Not after all that! TRAITORS, TRAITORS!!!

I love Steven Erikson... *sigh*