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Grimhilde's WIP Thread I want to join the Cirque du Critique!

#1 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 01:32 PM

So, I have a story I'm working on. Currently very raw, unedited and only 10K words long. Working title is Ubermensch - Or the Story of What Curiosity Did to the Cat.

It's not exactly fantasy. It takes place in our world, roughly our time and there's no magic. There are, however, secret military organizations who dabble in gene-manipulation and the selling of illegal bio-weapons. The story is about an ordinary girl who gets mixed up in all this. It's also a love-story. Or it will be when I get to that part:P



Any takers?


I would also like to read your stuff and critique it. I might not be fast, but I promise to be, or at least that I'll try, to be thorough:D I need to figure out if I can do it, if I have anything to say that is worth hearing(I want to work in a publishing house as an editor).


So, send me a PM and we can exchange e-mail adresses and chapters and all that jazz!
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#2 User is offline   Fist Gamet 

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 05:28 PM

Soon, soon...I am reading it.
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Posted 10 August 2009 - 07:42 PM

SPOILERS



It is an interesting start, feels like I am thrown right into the middle of the story at an important point – which is good.

I wouldn’t say “serious men”, this is classic ‘tell’ instead of ‘show’ (the oldest and most common error we all make). So you need to just show me how they are serious, you cannot just tell me (unless it is clearly someone’s opinion, like the PoV of the character as written in first-person)


“…Little monitors said beep…” really? They said that? :lol:

“…The suit thought it looked…” I like the way you have dehumanised the man in the suit with this but I would mention that you have also slipped into his PoV with this sentence. Chopping and changing PoV is all too easy and not a good idea. Your style is God’s Eye perspective, which I am not a fan of, because it always feels like I am being ‘told’ a story, rather than being involved in one. It is a style I find un-involving.

Further to the point I was just making, the scene with the re-arranging is very cool, but not at all gruesome and has little emotional impact upon me. This is not because it is a bad idea (as it is a very good idea) but because, imho, of the less engaging style of perspective. If I ca watch the scene through one person’s eyes I can feel what they feel, hear and see and smell what they do, understand what they think. It is only in the second paragraph you actually do this with what the doctor is thinking and it works well, for me, adding so much more to the scene and adding layers and layers of character to the doctor (what’s his name?)

The set-up to the doctor being grabbed through the glass was too obvious. It might even work better if she were to break the chains (did nobody see that?) and then just stand there staring at them, following their movements with her eyes, terrifying them with her potential, but more so with her cold, calculated control over that potential. Just my opinion.

Overall, I like the ideas and hope you find somewhere original to take this (just reminds me a bit of Species).
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#4 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:57 PM

View PostFist Gamet, on Aug 10 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

SPOILERS



It is an interesting start, feels like I am thrown right into the middle of the story at an important point – which is good.

I wouldn’t say “serious men”, this is classic ‘tell’ instead of ‘show’ (the oldest and most common error we all make). So you need to just show me how they are serious, you cannot just tell me (unless it is clearly someone’s opinion, like the PoV of the character as written in first-person)


“…Little monitors said beep…” really? They said that? :doh:

“…The suit thought it looked…” I like the way you have dehumanised the man in the suit with this but I would mention that you have also slipped into his PoV with this sentence. Chopping and changing PoV is all too easy and not a good idea. Your style is God’s Eye perspective, which I am not a fan of, because it always feels like I am being ‘told’ a story, rather than being involved in one. It is a style I find un-involving.

Further to the point I was just making, the scene with the re-arranging is very cool, but not at all gruesome and has little emotional impact upon me. This is not because it is a bad idea (as it is a very good idea) but because, imho, of the less engaging style of perspective. If I ca watch the scene through one person’s eyes I can feel what they feel, hear and see and smell what they do, understand what they think. It is only in the second paragraph you actually do this with what the doctor is thinking and it works well, for me, adding so much more to the scene and adding layers and layers of character to the doctor (what’s his name?)

The set-up to the doctor being grabbed through the glass was too obvious. It might even work better if she were to break the chains (did nobody see that?) and then just stand there staring at them, following their movements with her eyes, terrifying them with her potential, but more so with her cold, calculated control over that potential. Just my opinion.

Overall, I like the ideas and hope you find somewhere original to take this (just reminds me a bit of Species).


I've never gotten the hang of that whole show and tell-thing, but I do see what you mean when you point it out like that.

They're robot monitors, obviously:P

Eeek, didn't even notice that. It's been some time since I wrote that, actually. I think I might stick with the Doctor's POV for this part.

Uninvolving, obvious and a littler unoriginal, gotcha. Well, I guess I better fix that:P

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I'm gonna try and re-write the Prologue asap:)
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#5 User is offline   Fist Gamet 

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 04:11 PM

Ok, I am fairly certain you didn't take that too badly but I will just take a moment to reiterate my points. It is probably just me but message boards are like texts in that you need to know the other person quite well to avoid mis-reading what is written.

It is merely the style that has been found to be uninvolving - not 'your' style, but that writing style you have employed.

I do not mean to suggest the idea is unoriginal (which is a term I think has come to be synonymous with 'rubbish' - unfairly) as I do believe there is nothing new under the sun. It is not original ideas we seek (good luck to anyone who is, they will need it) but an orginal voice in expressing old ideas. A simple twist on a vampire theme allows a new writer to write about vampires, despite the thousand stories before.
I would add that the way you wrote the opening scenes with just dialogue, whilst not something I would do, nor commonly found, was actually original and refreshing. It struck me as a good style to employ in a sci-fi setting.

The immediate build up to the glass breaking is obvious, however, this is not always a bad thing. It depends upon whether you are looking to create tension or a surprise, imho.

I have read quite a lot of stuff of varying quality but I did enjoy this (should have mentioned that first time) and I would read more.
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#6 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:00 PM

View PostFist Gamet, on Aug 12 2009, 05:11 PM, said:

Ok, I am fairly certain you didn't take that too badly but I will just take a moment to reiterate my points. It is probably just me but message boards are like texts in that you need to know the other person quite well to avoid mis-reading what is written.

It is merely the style that has been found to be uninvolving - not 'your' style, but that writing style you have employed.

I do not mean to suggest the idea is unoriginal (which is a term I think has come to be synonymous with 'rubbish' - unfairly) as I do believe there is nothing new under the sun. It is not original ideas we seek (good luck to anyone who is, they will need it) but an orginal voice in expressing old ideas. A simple twist on a vampire theme allows a new writer to write about vampires, despite the thousand stories before.
I would add that the way you wrote the opening scenes with just dialogue, whilst not something I would do, nor commonly found, was actually original and refreshing. It struck me as a good style to employ in a sci-fi setting.

The immediate build up to the glass breaking is obvious, however, this is not always a bad thing. It depends upon whether you are looking to create tension or a surprise, imho.

I have read quite a lot of stuff of varying quality but I did enjoy this (should have mentioned that first time) and I would read more.



Didn't take it badly at all. It's just that I'm usually at work when I reply to these posts and for some reason they don’t take too kindly to me surfing during work hours :doh:

But I totally agree with you. It’s no longer so much about what you say, but how you say it. Although, making vampires sparkle in the sunlight is just saying it wrong! This story is influenced by many different things, movies books, even poetry, but I never even thought about Species when I wrote the prologue, although now that you’ve mentioned it, I totally see it. What has been seen cannot be unseen and all that jazz:P

I’m trying to rewrite that particular scene to make it more unsettling and I kinda liked your suggestion so it’ll probably be something along those lines. I really did appreciate your comments, they gave me a boost to really scrutinize my writing and see where I can improve things, which is quite a lot of places, hehe. Not being a native English speaker sometimes makes it difficult to say exactly what I want to say. I can see things quite clearly in my head, but when I put it down on paper it just doesn’t sound as cool, you know?

I can send you my first chapter and you can send me your first chapter. How does that sound?
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#7 User is offline   T'renn 

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:30 PM

Could you send me your 1st chapter ?

e-mail dionmengerink@hotmail.com

Mine can be found on the forum, in so far as its translated
...Every tale is a gift,
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.

-Fisher-


Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,

Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:36 PM

Good stuff, send me what you have.

:doh:
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#9 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 01:47 PM

View PostImperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on Aug 13 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

Could you send me your 1st chapter ?

e-mail dionmengerink@hotmail.com

Mine can be found on the forum, in so far as its translated


Sure, as soon as I get home:)

What language do you translate from?


View PostFist Gamet, on Aug 13 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

Good stuff, send me what you have.

;)


I will!
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#10 User is offline   T'renn 

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:03 PM

I'm back from introweek at my university, so now I've had time to read it.

My first impressions were that it was a nice beginning so far, though I am curious where you will take it.

At your other question, my native tongue is Dutch (I'm fluent in English and German as well), so I'm translating from that, though I've started to write more directly in english.

This post has been edited by Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn: 24 August 2009 - 07:09 PM

...Every tale is a gift,
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.

-Fisher-


Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,

Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven

-T.D. Mengerink-
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#11 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:32 AM

View PostImperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on Aug 24 2009, 07:03 PM, said:

I'm back from introweek at my university, so now I've had time to read it.

My first impressions were that it was a nice beginning so far, though I am curious where you will take it.

At your other question, my native tongue is Dutch (I'm fluent in English and German as well), so I'm translating from that, though I've started to write more directly in english.



Thanks!

I will take it somewhere cool and awesome!


OK, good to know:)
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#12 User is offline   Fist Gamet 

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 04:48 PM

“…He saw the guns at their hips and the knives in their boots and shook his head. Those flimsy weapons would do them no good against his creation. Granted that the serum works, he thought and bit his lip…” I think that’s better, more personal and engaging and I hope you agree. My only problem is the last bit, where “…he thought and bit his lip…” – the “he thought” is maybe unnecessary as I already know that from the italics.

“…looking impatiently at their expensive designer watches…” Again, good show, not tell, and illustrative of the type of people they are.

“…A suit wrung his hands nervously as he shuffled over to Dr Lowell…” and here is where it doesn’t quite make it. Remove the word “nervously” and I can still tell he is nervous because that is what people who wring their hands convey.

The scene were she is transformed is well done and nice and gruesome. You do, however, break it up a bit by describing the way the doctor feels right in the middle of that paragraph. It might work better afterwards, or immediately before it, to build tension.

I like the way you have described the conflict within Dr Lowell. He is utterly appalled by what he has done, and yet the scientist in him, the massive ego, has allowed him to over-ride his humanity and ethics and so this fascinates and excites him as well.

Much better end to the prologue, as the girl drips with menace and potential but you have teased the reader who now wants to read on to find the moment she unleashes her killing power.

Chapter One – he he, clearly written by a girl! And I mean that as a complement, for no guy could get into the female mind like that. 

Well, I really liked that. Ellie is very believable with lots of little affectations and a real personality. She definitely has me interested in her. She is either quite obviously who I think she is, or, you are employing some clever misdirection. If it is the former I assume you do not intend to make it hard for the reader to know who she really is. If it is the latter, be careful not to get too clever as readers really don’t like to be made fools of, generally speaking.
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#13 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 07:38 PM

View PostFist Gamet, on Aug 28 2009, 05:48 PM, said:

“…He saw the guns at their hips and the knives in their boots and shook his head. Those flimsy weapons would do them no good against his creation. Granted that the serum works, he thought and bit his lip…” I think that’s better, more personal and engaging and I hope you agree. My only problem is the last bit, where “…he thought and bit his lip…” – the “he thought” is maybe unnecessary as I already know that from the italics.

“…looking impatiently at their expensive designer watches…” Again, good show, not tell, and illustrative of the type of people they are.

“…A suit wrung his hands nervously as he shuffled over to Dr Lowell…” and here is where it doesn’t quite make it. Remove the word “nervously” and I can still tell he is nervous because that is what people who wring their hands convey.

The scene were she is transformed is well done and nice and gruesome. You do, however, break it up a bit by describing the way the doctor feels right in the middle of that paragraph. It might work better afterwards, or immediately before it, to build tension.

I like the way you have described the conflict within Dr Lowell. He is utterly appalled by what he has done, and yet the scientist in him, the massive ego, has allowed him to over-ride his humanity and ethics and so this fascinates and excites him as well.

Much better end to the prologue, as the girl drips with menace and potential but you have teased the reader who now wants to read on to find the moment she unleashes her killing power.

Chapter One – he he, clearly written by a girl! And I mean that as a complement, for no guy could get into the female mind like that. 

Well, I really liked that. Ellie is very believable with lots of little affectations and a real personality. She definitely has me interested in her. She is either quite obviously who I think she is, or, you are employing some clever misdirection. If it is the former I assume you do not intend to make it hard for the reader to know who she really is. If it is the latter, be careful not to get too clever as readers really don’t like to be made fools of, generally speaking.



Excellent points, good sir. You have a very good eye for this sort of thing. A career path perhaps?

I'm so glad you think it's better now, means I'm on the right path. I'll tidy things up a little more in the prologue:)


Thank you! That really means a lot as I worked hard to make her believeable, and not lame:P

Ah yes. When I wrote the prologue and the first chapter the story was quite different from what it is now. The plan has changed, and Ellie is not who she was in the beginning. So I might have to rewrite the first chapter a little so the readers are not pissed at me for tricking them:P

I was hoping to move the reader away from thinking Ellie is the obvious choice for the girl in the prologue by adding this at the end:



***

“Sir. Sir, they have found her. You should take a look at this.”

“My my. She has been busy, has she not?”

“I’ll say.”

"Well, I have seen enough. Bring them in."

"Yes, sir."


Maybe I shoud emphasize that quite some time passes between the prologue and the first chapter? Or even the main part of the prologue and this last addendum?

If you're really curious I can explain my plan to you and you could point out the flaws :) I've already figured out that some parts of the story are dangerously similar to one of my favourite TV-shows, although not as convoluted and illogical...I hope.


Btw, I never got your first chapter!

If you want the second chapter, let me know:)

Aagain, thanks a million for your comments, I really appreciate them :)
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#14 User is offline   Fist Gamet 

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 04:06 PM

Yes, send me chapter two.

B)

Imho, if you do want to move the reader away from thinking Ellie is the girl from the prologue then that what you suggest would work, and that would be exactly the right time to do it. For me, that would mean the reader doesn't get suckered but actually gets drawn further into the mystery because you have shifted the goalposts and made it clear that all is not what it seems in this story.
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#15 User is offline   Grimjust Bearegular 

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 07:34 PM

View PostFist Gamet, on Aug 31 2009, 04:06 PM, said:

Yes, send me chapter two.

B)

Imho, if you do want to move the reader away from thinking Ellie is the girl from the prologue then that what you suggest would work, and that would be exactly the right time to do it. For me, that would mean the reader doesn't get suckered but actually gets drawn further into the mystery because you have shifted the goalposts and made it clear that all is not what it seems in this story.



Alrighty, then that's what I'll do. I might add some more description of the prologue girl as well, to make it extra clear. When I write I write it like I'm seeing a movie, kind of. So, in a movie it would be totally clear that prologue girl and Eliie are not the same person, but again, what's clear to me is not clear to th reader. Gotta keep that in mind:P


I'll sedn you chapter two straight away!
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