[The Dark Wanderer]

There is a mention of Draconus got dragnipur'd in one of the books (someone with a copy near them help!) and it mentions something along the lines of how Envy betrayed her father and helped Anomander get him, details are however forgotten!

[Sheve]

Lady envy said that
"We worked damned hard to slay him the first time!"
"i Don´t recall you doing much, at the time. You stood by and watched the battle"
"precisely! and what do you think my father thought of that?"

[Zendog13]

Sorry guys, you lost me. Why are we thinking the hammer Whithal grabs to brake the CG's sword he forged is Broods? All it says is that one must either use a much stronger weapon than it to brake it... or... the actual hammer used to forge said weapon. That would be Withals original hammer. Now...there is no chance in hell (Wu/Chaos/Abys's brain) that Withal was given Broods hammer to go brake the CG sword as he would not be able to handle it ( I am having images of a certain chapter where Brood hands it over to some unfortunate sod who thinks he can hold it....ensuing snapped hands). Plus he is rather...attached to it. You do not just hand over a relic to someone, especially not one like Brood's hammer.
As for the "waking Burn up" part, well a strong relic could easily be bestowed with new powers later on in it's life, meaning it did not necessarily have to be made for that purpose. If Brood favoured a sword or mace as a weapon I am pretty sure Burn would have bestowed said power on one of those weapons had it been powerful enough.

[Aptorian]

Has anyone suggested Burns hammer was involved in making Rhulads sword?

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on Jul 25 2009, 03:55 PM, said:

Has anyone suggested Burns hammer was involved in making Rhulads sword?

No, no one has. There were merely allusions to how Withal had to use the hammer/anvil he made Rhulad's sword with the break it and how this compares to using Brood's hammer to make and break Dragnipur.

[Wampyry]

Don't believe it is possible for Burn's Hammer to be involved in the forging of Dragnipur unless there was a big discrepancy in the time-frame. Nah, that can't happen.

MOI 195. Paran is in the Finnest House. Rarest takes him to the room with all the flagstone tiles and then backs off claiming he could go no further. Skip... Paran looks at some of the tiles. One, an etched stone, caught his attention. A sleeping woman. She is Burn! She is the Sleeping Goddess. Then he saw the flaw, the marring a dark suppurating welt.
Skip... There at the wound's heart, a humped, kneeling, broken figure. Chained. Chained to Burn's own flesh. From the
figure, down the length of the chains, poison flowed into the Sleeping Goddess.

She sensed the sickness coming, sinking claws into her. Sensed... and chose to sleep. Less than two thousand years ago, she choose to sleep. She sought to escape the prison of her own flesh, in order to do battle with the one who was killing that flesh. She made of herself a weapon. Her entire spirit. All its power, into a single forging... a hammer, a hammer capable of breaking... breaking anything. And she then found a man to wield it.... Caladan Brood

So less than two thousand years ago, Burn made her hammer. Can't put a timeline on it, but I am sure Dragnipur is much older than two thousand years. Giving the Hammer the ability to break Dragnipur or anything else might be considered the final forging. Note that Burn is chained to the Falling God before the Hammer is made.

[Aptorian]

Is this Raests narration or Parans assumption? This doesn't necessarily sound like a historically accurate source.

What ever we might think, Draconus used a hammer connected with Burn to make the sword.

[The Dark Wanderer]

OK this may take a while, but please allow me to ramble.

In the RotCG prologue we see Draconus wielding a void which eventually turns into Dragnipur.
We're fairly certain that the physical swrod of Dragnipur is made using Burn's hammer.
We're fairly certain that a hammer associated with Burn made Dragnipur's physical sword part.
We know Draconus made Dragnipur as both the void and the sword.

Why (especially given the RotCG) prologue do we assume that the physical and 'mind-blowing weirdness' of the wagon and the run from Chaos are inherently linked? ie the darkness existed before the sword. Basically the point I'm eventually working my towards is why cann't the swordie-ness of Dragnipur have been mabe relatively recently (ie after Burn made the hammer, yes Draconus would have to steal the hammer from Brood, but it's not out of the question)? It's not as though Draconus was cursed to fade away as K'rul was and we know that Nightchill's curse took up to GotM to materialise so why couldn't Draconus' have taken only slightly less time and have happened in the last however-long since the hammer was made?

Feel free to rip this theory to shreads!

[Silencer]

Because of the hundreds of dragons, demons, gods, ascendants and mortals that Rake has had to kill? We know he visited the Seguleh island a couple of centuries ago with Dragnipur.

Hell, Draconus ain't only been in there a thousand years. He'd be FAR more cocky if so - remember, the guy is an Elder God, who had a curse placed on him three-hundred thousand years ago. You think a thousand years in Dragnipur would humble him? More like "HAHAHAH Kallor, your curse sucked balls". K'rul faded thousands of years ago, and Nightchill's curse was specifically designed so that she'd always have to watch her back, and be unprepared for the betrayal against her. Draconus had to finish forging his sword (which he'd been doing "since the beginning of time"), and would make changes three-hundred thousand years ago so that he'd be able to get out. I mean, the timeline is not important, but the time-scale disparity of that is crazy. Why would anyone care? Draconus was talking in RotCG prologue of bringing Rake to heel then, and was chasing Osserc at the time. Besides, Draconus would have had to get Dragnipur'd prior to the chaining of the CG...otherwise it makes no sense.

>.>

Just rambling. Don't mind me.

[Aptorian]

It's been One Hundred Thousand years since the curse (roughly) not three. Rake's fight with Draconus happened within the last One Hundred Thousand years.

A lot of the creatures in Dragnipur are put there by Draconus not Rake, he had a whole lot longer time to go hunting.

The notion that Draconus "stole" Broods hammer to finish his sword, and then brood was given the hammer back, is preposterous.

Why can't we just chalk this down to being another timeline hick-up or that the Hammer has existed since Elder Times?

[amphibian]

It's also entirely possible that there's multiple Burn's Hammers out there.

Maybe it's in like a gift bag she hands to her one night stands or something - you know, like in lieu of doing laundry or making pancakes or something. Toothbrush, Colgate, shampoo, disposable razor, large hammer capable of breaking apart the entire planet, floss and pack of bacon...

[Aptorian]

The Hammer of Burn, the gift that keeps on giving... that's untill you use the hammer of course.

[Sinisdar Toste]

ok im thinking its entirely possible that burns hammer has been around since time immemorial, as long as burn at least. draconus entered her heart to create the chains for his sword, that would have to be an incredible journey, and on that journey he could have picked up the hammer along the way. easily.

Then why would he not leave it behind? He's creating the most unbefuckinOMGWTFBBQlievable sword in the world. burns hammer is just an oversized forge hammer to him.

The hammer then waits around bein a cool hammer. Burn takes the big snooze about 1100 years ago and places all her power into the kick ass hammer (and now im thinking, well damn, Burns hammer is a Finnest!), and then hands it over to her main man, Caladan Brood.

[Aptorian]

Interesting your suggestion that it's a finest.

That would mean that there are other ways to use the hammer than just as weapon of mass destruction and an oversized alarm clock.

What if a mage cracked it open and harnessed the energy inside it?

[Sinisdar Toste]

Well i guess thats why she entrusted it to the Warlord. wouldn't want sneaky and greedy types discovering a goddess in the palm of their hand.

i mean remember the shit that went down when scabandaris finnest was discovered?

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 26 July 2009 - 07:27 PM

[Wampyry]

Why not create a scenaro that resolves the time-discrepancy and still be true to the known facts?
Herwith one, sure many more can be created:

At one of the chainings - not the last - it decided that the FG must be rooted. Chained to Burn was the decision. Burn loans her hammer to Draconus and tells him to make the chains. He does and is so impressed that he also make chains for the Void, thereby, pissing off Burn. Much later poison from the FG is filtering down to Burn. She decides that the best defense is a more powerful hammer that can break the chains saving Burn, but also freeing the FG or the chains can remain intact thus killing Burn. She makes a stronger hammer imbued with her spirit and all its power. This hammer can be brand new or the old one re-forged. She gives the new/reforged hammer to Brood along with the dilemma on how to use it. Burn takes a nap

QB, Paran and others resolve the dilemma for Brood. Burn is saved. FG is chained and Draconus is in the Void pulling a wagon. All is happy - for a while.

As stated this is only one scenaro. Sure many more can be created.

This post has been edited by Wampyry: 27 July 2009 - 03:01 PM

[Tarcil]

I believe sinisdar is right.
altough the finnest part is dodgy.

I believe that the hammer was around since more than 100 000 years. It's the most powerful and best hammer in the universe.

Draconus has to forge the hardest and most unbreakable sword/chains. So he takes the best tool around= the hammer.

Burn is pissed because of sacrilege,... whatever. (at this time you can't destroy the world with it, just make a big bang nuclear style or something)

She gets it back and guards it (most powerful,...) might give it to Brood because she can trust him not to do something similarly stupid ( can't remember when he gets it.)

Then comes along the chainings and she decides to go to sleep. but she doesn't want to wake up because of a mosquito or a silly Convergence, so she makes sure that only the biggest bang can wake her. What produces the biggest bang? = the hammer.

For the same reason she gives/has already given it to Brood and gives him the instruction manual and the mission to find another way than the manual otherwise everybody dies.

makes sense, every guy in the world who constructs something doesn't use the manual, its in our genes.

P.S. wonder if that goes for nuclear scientists...

I am glad that the Hammer exists, imagine the mosquito scenario...

This post has been edited by Tarcil: 27 July 2009 - 10:08 PM