[Aptorian]

nomed, on Jul 5 2009, 09:04 PM, said:

what about throwing lobsters into boiling water? same thing to me, they're both ugly, stupid animals that i feel no compassion for, and i hate white meat.

The screams the emmit as they boil to death is just air leaving their shell

I've always thought that practice was completely insane, and I wish I could dunk those cheffs into boiling water and exclaim that people need not worry, the sounds they are making is just air leaving their lungs.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 July 2009 - 07:12 PM

[DurhangAddict]

nomed, on Jul 5 2009, 03:04 PM, said:

what about throwing lobsters into boiling water? same thing to me, they're both ugly, stupid animals that i feel no compassion for, and i hate white meat.

Yeah, that's gotta be a bad way to go. I've never understood why they can't be killed quickly, immediately before you throw them in the boiling water.

[nomed]

eh, they're just big bugs to me.

This post has been edited by nomed: 05 July 2009 - 07:13 PM

[Darkwatch]

The problem about most animal rights arguments is the following:

The majority don't care enough to act, companies, as mentioned by Captain obvious, are out for profit.
So don't argue with companies about morality, argue with economics.
Animals that go through long term suffering yield lesser quality meat, workers who are uselessly cruel are wasting company time and money.
If you arrange it for the animals so that they suffer less and you get your employees to work you can offset some prices.

In this scenario kinder treatment for the animals is a byproduct of cold economics, it's sad but at least the it's a better approach to PETA's fear mongering that offers NO REAL SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.

[nomed]

what's up with all the peta hate? sea kittens was some serious shit man. lol

[chill]

Darkwatch, on Jul 5 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

Animals that go through long term suffering yield lesser quality meat, workers who are uselessly cruel are wasting company time and money.

Does the lesser quality of meat have impact on KFC's profit? Would they treat chicken better if it did?

[Darkwatch]

chill, on Jul 5 2009, 03:25 PM, said:

Darkwatch, on Jul 5 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

Animals that go through long term suffering yield lesser quality meat, workers who are uselessly cruel are wasting company time and money.

Does the lesser quality of meat have impact on KFC's profit? Would they treat chicken better if it did?

I'm going to go and guess that it doesn't affect it enough for the CEOs to care and with all the processing it goes through we may never actually see the taste.
But my argument was also for the industry at large, such as factory farms that supply supermarkets, there the meat hasn't seen as much processing as KFC so chances are the differences are more noticeable.

[HoosierDaddy]

See the taste? Did you mean "cost?" Lol. Just reads funny.

[chill]

Darkwatch, on Jul 5 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

chill, on Jul 5 2009, 03:25 PM, said:

Darkwatch, on Jul 5 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

Animals that go through long term suffering yield lesser quality meat, workers who are uselessly cruel are wasting company time and money.

Does the lesser quality of meat have impact on KFC's profit? Would they treat chicken better if it did?

I'm going to go and guess that it doesn't affect it enough for the CEOs to care and with all the processing it goes through we may never actually see the taste.
But my argument was also for the industry at large, such as factory farms that supply supermarkets, there the meat hasn't seen as much processing as KFC so chances are the differences are more noticeable.

Hard to say I think... and quality doesn't have to matter, people will buy it if it's cheap enough.

To be honest, the reason I got so angry about this video has nothing to do with KFC.
While I was watching those poor creatures treated in such way, I couldn't help thinking about videos of suffering and depraved human beings.

And then I thought about how many children could've been fed with the money PETA spent on this campaign. And the fact that the campaign had next to no success. That really set me off.

[DurhangAddict]

chill, on Jul 5 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

To be honest, the reason I got so angry about this video has nothing to do with KFC.
While I was watching those poor creatures treated in such way, I couldn't help thinking about videos of suffering and depraved human beings.

And then I thought about how many children could've been fed with the money PETA spent on this campaign.

Fair enough, but that's not what PETA is about. There are plenty of other groups out there trying to alleviate human suffering. If that's what's bothering you, make a donation to the Christian Childrens Fund.

[chill]

DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 11:03 PM, said:

chill, on Jul 5 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

To be honest, the reason I got so angry about this video has nothing to do with KFC.
While I was watching those poor creatures treated in such way, I couldn't help thinking about videos of suffering and depraved human beings.

And then I thought about how many children could've been fed with the money PETA spent on this campaign.

Fair enough, but that's not what PETA is about. There are plenty of other groups out there trying to alleviate human suffering. If that's what's bothering you, make a donation to the Christian Childrens Fund.

Yeah, but you have to admit, the money invested was mostly wasted away. The video says the process is in motion since 2001, and the fact is that no changes happened.
If PETA can improve animal treatment in industry, I'm all for that. But I think the cash should've been used for something else, as capitalists in general are not very symphatetic to moral arguments, and moral arguments are all I've seen in that video.

[DurhangAddict]

chill, on Jul 5 2009, 04:12 PM, said:

DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 11:03 PM, said:

chill, on Jul 5 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

To be honest, the reason I got so angry about this video has nothing to do with KFC.
While I was watching those poor creatures treated in such way, I couldn't help thinking about videos of suffering and depraved human beings.

And then I thought about how many children could've been fed with the money PETA spent on this campaign.

Fair enough, but that's not what PETA is about. There are plenty of other groups out there trying to alleviate human suffering. If that's what's bothering you, make a donation to the Christian Childrens Fund.

Yeah, but you have to admit, the money invested was mostly wasted away. The video says the process is in motion since 2001, and the fact is that no changes happened.
If PETA can improve animal treatment in industry, I'm all for that. But I think the cash should've been used for something else, as capitalists in general are not very symphatetic to moral arguments, and moral arguments are all I've seen in that video.

I'm sure you can find waste in every charitable organization, and I certainly don't agree with everything PETA has does. That being said, PETA has had many victories in their various campaigns.

Capitalism isn't a bad thing. Unchecked captalism is.

[chill]

DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

I'm sure you can find waste in every charitable organization, and I certainly don't agree with everything PETA has does. That being said, PETA has had many victories in their various campaigns.

I didn't say PETA generally wastes money, I said that, in this particular case, the money invested has yet to yield results. I don't believe this campaign will change much, but that's my personal opinion.

This post has been edited by chill: 05 July 2009 - 08:23 PM

[Thelomen Toblerone]

DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

Capitalism isn't a bad thing

I'll dispute that one there

[Darkwatch]

HoosierDaddy, on Jul 5 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

See the taste? Did you mean "cost?" Lol. Just reads funny.

No, I meant the processing the food goes through, changes the taste so much we wouldn't see the difference.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

You cant deny that's a bloody magical mix of herbs and spices though. When the skin tastes that good, the meats never gonna be the primary flavour concern. You probably wouldnt notice if it was better quality chicken any difference in taste accordingly, so there's absolutely no incentive to improve.

[Slum]

Oh the poor chickens! They're only alive for a short time because we want to eat them. We grow chickens. Then we harvest them.

And, PETA, get a better spokesperson than Pam Anderson if you want me to take you seriously.


Chickens are just as lovable as dogs? I think not.

[DurhangAddict]

Slumgullion Spitteler, on Jul 5 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Chickens are just as lovable as dogs? I think not.

Have you ever raised a chicken?

[masan's saddle]

Thelomen Toblerone, on Jul 5 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

Capitalism isn't a bad thing

I'll dispute that one there

Indeed.

The commodification of livestock is not a new phenomenon, the industrialised processes ( relatively speaking) used to monopolise profit are.

As has been mentioned before one of the issues here is the seeming causality of economics and morality.

Do you object to this treatment based on some sort of psuedo hippy/ veggie philosophy ?

Or do you disagree with the rampant commodification of a living thing, to its detriment, for the purposes of profit ?

Whilst both approaches have their merits I feel the "profit over morality" line of argument would prove more productive than the "fluffy bunnies/ we don't need to eat them anymore" argument.

I like meat, however I feel more comfortable knowing an animal came from a facility which was not run like the one in the clip, to the detriment of the animals and the apparent debasement of the staff.

As an aside I don't mind paying a couple of extra quid for free range chicken, they taste better for a start and they haven't been pumped full of steroids/ water/ crap.

Also as TT can attest to, KFC is always full of chavs !

[Slum]

DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

Slumgullion Spitteler, on Jul 5 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Chickens are just as lovable as dogs? I think not.

Have you ever raised a chicken?

Well, I tried once. Then I got hungry and plucked its feathers and stuck its corpse in the deep fryer.