[HoosierDaddy]

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

You're not the boss of me!

But yeah, we're way off-topic. The real question is, what does Erikson think of Vegetarians.

You are lucky I am not, because this would definitely be F- territory. Religious debate in the most holy of forums? What has the world come to?

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 29 June 2009 - 10:13 PM

[RangerSG]

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 05:04 PM, said:

RangerSG, on Jun 29 2009, 11:52 PM, said:

Aptorian, on Jun 29 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

I don't go around killing people just because they don't believe that E=MC2.

Violence commited in the name of god or faith, is just an excuse. A rose by any other name can still smell like crap.

Agreed entirely. But Stalinists and Maoists did kill, imprison, or otherwise repress others for their faith. Was that somehow preferable because the "faith" didn't recognize itself as such, but scientific progress?

Stalin and his fellow dictators didn't prosecute and kill various faithes and political ideologists because they were atheists. They did it because... well, gee gosh, they were DICTATORS! Can't have these radical free, thinking, non-communist god worshipping bastards in our midst spreading notions of a higher meaning and a better life when you're trying to convince the masses that their misserable existance is as good as it gets.

There's nothing worse than when religious nuts start blaming peoples lack of faith with low morals and violent behaviour. As though god is the only thing preventing people from turning in to murdering rapists with a goodkind fetish.

Just to be clear, what I was saying wasn't that at all. It's that atheism can be just as much a "faith" and enforced with just as much brutality, as any other.

As JMS noted in Babylon 5, people will always believe in something bigger than themselves. It's part of our nature. It can be a good thing or a bad thing. That's up to the person. But they will believe. It's what you do with faith that matters.

Anyway, it is off topic. I think SE eats vegetarians for lunch.

[Slow Ben]

I tried eating them for breakfast once. Not filling enough.

I couldnt care less what he is. I'm a Christian, would i stop reading his books because he worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Hell no! Who cares, he writes great books.

[RangerSG]

Slow Ben, on Jun 29 2009, 05:18 PM, said:

I tried eating them for breakfast once. Not filling enough.

I couldnt care less what he is. I'm a Christian, would i stop reading his books because he worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Hell no! Who cares, he writes great books.

I absolutely agree.

[nomed]

RangerSG, on Jun 29 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

nomed, on Jun 29 2009, 11:56 AM, said:

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jun 29 2009, 12:36 AM, said:

Religion isn't nonsense. Look at Christianity-followers of that always have it in the back of their minds, and its attendant virtues-like being kind, giving charity, etc. True, not everyone's like this but there are some good things about religion.

So without religion we would have no virtues?

Well, without turning this into a flamebait discussion, it is debatable. Given the evidence of the 20th century that atheism can produce regimes that murder even more efficiently with no moral restraint whatsoever.

But of course, I realize that in our politically correct Western Culture, the only group it's acceptable to be a bigot against is a believing Christian. And yes, calling those you disagree with "unintelligent" or "narrow-minded" is just another example of bigotry. You'll never see the media or academia use those terms for Islamic or other believers. Only Christians, who must, by definition, all act like they were caricatured at the Scopes Trial nearly 100 years ago.

A closed system of the universe is not inherently more logical than an open system of it. BOTH have no true scientific support, since we cannot know or reproduce, by definition, what existed one moment before the universe existed, and any scientific "theory" is therefore nothing but one more philosophical argument. Having inherently no more or less logic than any other faith system.

Butcher is entirely correct in the Dresden Files when he has Harry call modern scientific materialism a religion. It's inherently nothing more than a faith system in a closed universe. Which is why you see so much dogmatism and propaganda on it in the Modern intelligentsia. Academia in the West is just as willing to stifle dissent against "heretical" believers in other faiths as the Inquisition ever was. And their methods have not always been any less ruthless either.

I don't inherently disrespect someone because I disagree with them. You've said you do. To me, that is the definition of intolerance and prejudice. The fact that such intolerance is the only accepted form does not make it right, or just, or more intellectual. It's still prejudice, by any other name.

Wow good post. I disagree with all of it, but I'm not intellectual enough or motivated, to go into detail. Still very smart.

but hey I'm only a bigot against other bigots. Don't tell me i'm going to hell for what i believe in and i wont tell you your a retard for believing what you do.

This post has been edited by nomed: 30 June 2009 - 02:44 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Can a mod either close the thread or delete some posts? This thread is going to continue to fester like a rotten wound as long as it contains inflammatory posts. Hell, just close the thread. Whether S.E. is an atheist, christian, or an alien, it doesn't matter: He writes kick-ass stories.

[nomed]

aw, your no fun.

This thread was obviously bad news from the get go. Someone post a train pic.

This post has been edited by nomed: 30 June 2009 - 03:24 AM

[foolio]

It was only a matter of time, I was surprised it took this long. I think the participants deserve a cookie for avoiding the religious V atheist arguement for as long as they did. Like I said it was only a matter of time.


On topic, I would say, and this is nothing more than a guess, That Erikson, most likely is not into organized, traditional christianity.

This post has been edited by foolio: 30 June 2009 - 07:33 PM

[Sindriss]

Quote

Anyway, it is off topic. I think SE eats vegetarians for lunch. tongue.gif

I bet I could eat a 100 vegetarians

[Aptorian]

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

It seems like this must be a matter of public record somewhere. I'm sure he's discussed his religious beliefs in some interview somewhere.

Oh, and how is it relevant if it matters? (It doesn't by the way.) If we only allowed threads about things that matter, the entire site other than the discussion board would be shut down.

And dammit, stop arguing about religion. Wrong place.

[Silencer]

No more religious debate, people. Talk about SE's possible influences/beliefs, but do not go into the territory of pitting religions against one another. Take that to the discussion forum if you must, but even there you must keep it civil.

This thread is now on notice.

[D'rek]

Whatever religion, race, gender, sexual preference and physical characteristics define Erikson, all of them put together cannot even come close to the massive influence that is growing up in Winnipeg. If he'd stayed in Toronto this series would never have been nearly the same, as there is things to do there other than make up extremely detailed imaginary worlds while you watch all the planes fly by without any landing.

[Sinisdar Toste]

D'rek, on Jul 15 2009, 07:42 AM, said:

Whatever religion, race, gender, sexual preference and physical characteristics define Erikson, all of them put together cannot even come close to the massive influence that is growing up in Winnipeg. If he'd stayed in Toronto this series would never have been nearly the same, as there is things to do there other than make up extremely detailed imaginary worlds while you watch all the planes fly by without any landing.

not to mention the nearly 8 months of winter. if i didn't have university, hockey and music to concentrate on in those months me and possibly the whole city would probably go stark raving mad

[Ain't_It_Just_]

D'rek, on Jul 15 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

Whatever religion, race, gender, sexual preference and physical characteristics define Erikson, all of them put together cannot even come close to the massive influence that is growing up in Winnipeg. If he'd stayed in Toronto this series would never have been nearly the same, as there is things to do there other than make up extremely detailed imaginary worlds while you watch all the planes fly by without any landing.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's so good about Winnipeg?

[D'rek]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jul 16 2009, 07:38 AM, said:

D'rek, on Jul 15 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

Whatever religion, race, gender, sexual preference and physical characteristics define Erikson, all of them put together cannot even come close to the massive influence that is growing up in Winnipeg. If he'd stayed in Toronto this series would never have been nearly the same, as there is things to do there other than make up extremely detailed imaginary worlds while you watch all the planes fly by without any landing.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's so good about Winnipeg?

It looks relatively pleasant when you're flying over it at 40 000 feet in July. That's about it.

[Agraba]

It seems like people are arguing whether SE is atheist or religious. Those aren't the only options. You can believe in god, but not be so RELIGIOUS about it. Some people hold fantasy books, or crack, or video games as a "religion". Crack isn't a religion for me, but I still believe it exists.

Hey, maybe SE does believe in god, but he also believe that god is a horrible c**t who will only interfere with us to his own ends, without our welfare in mind. I mean, if there was a god, it's not like that sounds so far fetched. I mean, in the bible stories, he said he's benevolent and all-loving... he could have been lying

Or maybe there is an all-loving god. Doesn't mean we have to be all religious about it, we could just accept him. I mean, why worship him and thank him, if he doesn't do that for us? He needs us just as much - maybe more - than we need him, since he'd be bored as fuck without us.

Ok I'm just rambling now. I think SE is heavily critical of religion, and I'd be surprised if he was part of one, or at least a mainstream one, where there's so much emphasis on us humbling ourselves before our lord. Someone made a good point about Kimloc's speech and how wise philosophies can come from those who consider themselves spiritual. I wouldn't think any less of him if he believes in god, but I highly doubt he's a member of any mainstream religion.

[Silencer]

You bring up a good point about the bible there, but that'd be more relevant in the DB.

I do agree, however, that I find it unlikely SE believes in God. One could say that his portrayal of Gods in the books is not very...pleasant. They're mostly scheming manipulators, and he does make one or two ref's about the possibilities they are but facets of one God. Which makes one wonder if that is his perspective. We have to remember that the chances of his beliefs being apparent or easily divined, or even present at all in his works are slim, but he could still fit one or two nods to it in there.

[T'renn]

I would find it more in line with the writings if he were an agnostic. I mean, in Toll the hounds, Hood hints at something where the souls will finally go to and be judged. It is not always believe or don't believe, but if you don't have certainty about the existence of something, that doesn't mean it doesn't excist.

Oh, and personally, I like god, I just have a problem with some of his fans.

[Epiph]

I really thought I read in an interview somewhere that he didn't believe in God. Maybe I dreamed it...or interpreted something ambiguous he said.