[MTS]

RLY, I see your point, but I guess the ambiguity of the term "Jedi" makes any distinction problematic because it has been converted to mean all Force users, simply because they are the majority that we witness. But you're right, you can't really have a 'dark Jedi' as such - but what about Quinlan Vos and people like him? They blur the line quite well. I agree that Sith aren't of the order and thus aren't technically Jedi, but the mindset remains in some of the fallen, and Hoosier seems to be suggesting that's enough.

[Aptorian]

Gothos, on Jun 4 2009, 05:56 PM, said:

Lisheo, on Jun 4 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Their is only ever one Sith Lord and one Sith Apprentice in the galaxy at one time since the fall of the original Sith;

that rule was implemented by Darth Bane. every time before, what befell the Sith was infighting, backstabbing, treachery and all that, too many people striving for power. So from Darth Bane onwards (he killed the entire Sith orded except for his newly appointed apprentice) there would only be one Lord (to wield the power of the Dark Side) and one apprentice (to crave it)

See, they also brought this up in the new star wars films, and honestly... what kind of crap is that?

I don't understand how this "tradition" or what ever you want to call it, makes sense.

Are there then not allowed to be any other "dark jedi's" working with the Sith Lord and the apprentice? No wonder they're always hiding then and using backstabbery to win, there's ONLY TWO OF THEM!

What a load of bullshit.

[MTS]

Yeah the idea was that they couldn't take on the Jedi using force because internecine struggles would undermine any efforts they made. By being subversive and eliminating competition (the whole order, basically), apparently they're supposed to be more effective, as taking on the Jedi by force is impractical anyway, because you'd have the Republic to deal with as well. I don't think it holds water, personally, but anyway.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 04 June 2009 - 08:09 PM

[Eddie Dean]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jun 4 2009, 02:51 PM, said:

RLY, I see your point, but I guess the ambiguity of the term "Jedi" makes any distinction problematic because it has been converted to mean all Force users, simply because they are the majority that we witness. But you're right, you can't really have a 'dark Jedi' as such - but what about Quinlan Vos and people like him? They blur the line quite well. I agree that Sith aren't of the order and thus aren't technically Jedi, but the mindset remains in some of the fallen, and Hoosier seems to be suggesting that's enough.

Jolee Bindo in KOTOR and one of the masters in KOTOR 2 both said of themselves, "I am not a Jedi" even though they both were force users. They were not even of the dark side. To me to be a Jedi means you have to be part of the Jedi Order.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Eddie Dean, on Jun 4 2009, 01:14 PM, said:

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jun 4 2009, 02:51 PM, said:

RLY, I see your point, but I guess the ambiguity of the term "Jedi" makes any distinction problematic because it has been converted to mean all Force users, simply because they are the majority that we witness. But you're right, you can't really have a 'dark Jedi' as such - but what about Quinlan Vos and people like him? They blur the line quite well. I agree that Sith aren't of the order and thus aren't technically Jedi, but the mindset remains in some of the fallen, and Hoosier seems to be suggesting that's enough.

Jolee Bindo in KOTOR and one of the masters in KOTOR 2 both said of themselves, "I am not a Jedi" even though they both were force users. They were not even of the dark side. To me to be a Jedi means you have to be part of the Jedi Order.

This is how I see it. Mappo has a point too though. It comes down to if you're using the literal meaning of Jedi (being an actual member of the order) or the commonplace meaning, anyone who uses the force. Since HD's original post used the phrase "technically" I felt that he was implying the former usage, and also felt the need to pointlessly and pedantically bust his balls about it. The internet is fun.

[Obdigore]

Hopefully there are no jedi's.

Make the Jedi's the PVE bosses and then have everyone else be other troops - 40v1 is about right for norms vs a jedi, right?

[Gothos]

depends on the jedi and the other combatant I guess. a jedi apprentice probably isn't worth more than a grizzled bounty hunter, but a jedi master or sith lord, well, these are entities that bend reality to their will, right? takes a superweapon or another force user to kill them. or special circumstances like being eaten by a giant sea monster or getting vacuumed into space
then again Revenge of the Sith showed us that even Jedi Masters could be taken down by ordinary troops. not at even odds, but still! possible.

[Slow Ben]

First, this looks awesome. Will be my first MMO also.

Quote from Tarkin in Star Wars.

"The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all thats left of their religion."

So, Vader may be Dark Jedi, Sith or whatever, but he's still considered a Jedi. I see it as the technical def. If you use the force, you are a jedi of some sort.

[Stalker]

re: the whole timeline thing,

according to the developers, the game takes place 300 years after the events of KOTOR (the first one, at least that is what it sounded like) and 2600 years before the movies.

I don't know star wars lore like HD, so let him tell us what war it is.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Slow Ben, on Jun 4 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

First, this looks awesome. Will be my first MMO also.

Quote from Tarkin in Star Wars.

"The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all thats left of their religion."

So, Vader may be Dark Jedi, Sith or whatever, but he's still considered a Jedi. I see it as the technical def. If you use the force, you are a jedi of some sort.

I think that quote means the exact opposite of what you think. The first sentence states pretty clearly that despite the existence of Vader, the Jedi are extinct. If he was considered a jedi, the Jedi would not be extinct. The second sentence does not say that he IS a jedi, it says that the only remnant of the Jedi is an ex-jedi.

PLus, what the hell does tarkin know. We know more about the Jedi than he does.

[Slow Ben]

Are all thats left of their religion. Meaning Vader belongs to the same religion as the Jedi.

How do we know all that Tarkin knows? He was around when the jedi were still in power.

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 04 June 2009 - 11:58 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Slow Ben, on Jun 4 2009, 04:57 PM, said:

Are all thats left of their religion. Meaning Vader belongs to the same religion as the Jedi.

How do we know all that Tarkin knows? He was around when the jedi were still in power.

If he was including Vader as a jedi, he would have said "you're all that's left of YOUR religion." Vader isn't still apart of the religion, as an ex-member he is a relic of it though.

Tarkin isn't able to access every instance jedi have been on film like we can. He's stuck in a singular POV, we see all of the POVs of all characters, and so are better informed.

[MTS]

Gothos, on Jun 5 2009, 07:55 AM, said:

getting vacuumed into space

Spoiler

Well we've seen Starkiller in Force Unleashed get sucked out into space, and he survived.

That's one of the things I hate about Star Wars - no concept of astrophysics at all. Explosions, people fighting in space, sound...

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 05 June 2009 - 03:48 AM

[Slow Ben]

RLY, I dont disagree with anything you've said. But they may call themselves sith, but true sith are all gone. So, in my eyes, their either Jedi or Dark Jedi. May not be right, but thats how i see it.

Grand Moff Tarkin= Jedi specialist.

[HoosierDaddy]

@MTS: Ditto Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek... just about every kick ass Sci-Fi space thingamabob.

I shall not feed the pedantic bear.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 05 June 2009 - 04:00 AM

[MTS]

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 5 2009, 02:00 PM, said:

@MTS: Ditto Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek... just about every kick ass Sci-Fi space thingamabob.

Yeah, one of the reasons I watch neither of those. Any space shows for that matter.

How do people think the story will go? Will the Sith Lords and Jedi Masters be bosses that the other side needs to defeat? That's the only way I see it working.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 4 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

@MTS: Ditto Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek... just about every kick ass Sci-Fi space thingamabob.

I shall not feed the pedantic bear.

But the pedantic bear needs food!

[Aptorian]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jun 5 2009, 05:48 AM, said:

Gothos, on Jun 5 2009, 07:55 AM, said:

getting vacuumed into space

Spoiler

Well we've seen Starkiller in Force Unleashed get sucked out into space, and he survived.

That's one of the things I hate about Star Wars - no concept of astrophysics at all. Explosions, people fighting in space, sound...

Why do you find it unlikely that a strong jedi could survive in space for a brief period of time? After all they are like battle jesus, they can do anything the author wants them to do.

As for the jedis in the game. Of course the masters, the strongest, will be NPCs. It would make sense that they had the same posistions of the Elite characters in World of Warcraft. People like Thrall and the Dwarf King that are like level 500 or something like that. They'll be raid bosses or some kind of similar NPCs.

[Gothos]

actually "Boss" NPCs in WoW are always set to player level +3 for all calculation purposes - crit chance, hit chance, resists, glancing blows, crushing blows, damage reduction from armor, dodge, parry, block... it means that even if you're going down to kill, let's say, Nefarian, who is a boss encounter in a raid designed for max level 60, back in classic for the lvl 60 players calculations were as for a lvl 63 monster; when you go there now at 80 and faceroll your way through the entire instance, these calculations are made as for a lvl 83 monster. doesn't increase hit points or damage tho (which is why you can faceroll your way through the raid ) technically you can assume that the King of Stormwind, Thrall and other city bosses are updated to fit a northrend level boss with hitpoints and damage, but they don't really have a set level.

[Aptorian]

Yeah, I know about those settings, but the health levels and resistance of the raid bosses are still extreme. I believe that the level 500 monicher is primarily related to the level of health. I mean, if you were trying to kill Ragnaros by yourself at level 60 with tier one gear you'd be hitting him for an hour and he may still not be down.