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#1 User is offline   Viandaran 

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:09 PM

Has Dassem actually been called this anywhere in the series or is this just a dramatic application here on the forum?
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#2 User is offline   Grief 

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:18 PM

Edited title for spoilers.

We are told that Dassem is Dessembrae, and we are also told that Dessembrae is the Lord of tragedy, so yes we are told Dassem is Lord of Tragedy.

Though I can't remmeber if anyone calls him that face to face. I believe Hood may in RoTCG, and he may be called that by someone else at the end of TTH.

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#3 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:31 PM

I think we first know it when Fiddler thinks something like " Dessembrae-Dassem's cult" in DG.
Then Leoman tells it to Corrab, although how Leoman can know this is somewhat strange, in TBH.
In TtH cultist of Dessembrae come to see the duel against Rake and Samar Dev also thinks something like " they've come to see their god".
Maybe it occurs some other time, but I can't remember.
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#4 User is offline   Viandaran 

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:25 PM

thanks. i get the D = D connection but i just can't recall Dessembrae being referred to as the "Lord of Tragedy" in the books.
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#5 User is offline   Assail 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 04:22 AM

See I don't remember anything concerning Dassem being Dessembrae. I could be wrong but I doubt I'd miss a line stating that Dassem was Dessembrae.

The only indicative event would be when the cult of Dessembrae watched the Rake/Dassem fight.

Then again, I haven't read RotCG (I really need too, I've heard about K'azz being such a badass but haven't met him yet :p)
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#6 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 11:43 AM

I don't think he is ever referred to specifically as the Lord of Tragedy, but it is repeatedly mentioned and alluded to that Dassem ascended to become Dassembrae, and Dassembrae is the Lord of Tragedy. Thus, Dassem=Lord of Tragedy, which makes sense, considering his tiff with Hood and the events surrounding his daughter, and his thirst for vengeance that is never truly slaked. In RotCG there is an instance when Ereko and Traveller meet the Edur ships that also proves it, as the word "god" is thrown around at one point, I believe.

Btw Assail, READ ROTCG! DIDI MAO MEANS DIDI NOW! Badass action sequences abound, especially among the Avowed. Shimmer, Cowl, Iron Bars, Smoky, Skinner, Blues, Fingers...*shudders*. Some of their scenes just scream awesome. Plus, we get to see Laseen and Traveller kick some ass.
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#7 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:02 PM

Hell, you can actually prove this using GotM. The book that Kruppe reads about the chainings, when listing folks at the most recent Chaining talks about how Dessembra, Hood's champion was there, and it was there that he shattered his bonds with Hood. Though we don't know it by that point in GotM, we then learn in DG that Dassem was Knight of Death and broke from Hood at the most recent chaining.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#8 User is offline   Assail 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:28 PM

View PostMappo's Travelling Sack, on May 7 2009, 04:43 AM, said:

I don't think he is ever referred to specifically as the Lord of Tragedy, but it is repeatedly mentioned and alluded to that Dassem ascended to become Dassembrae, and Dassembrae is the Lord of Tragedy. Thus, Dassem=Lord of Tragedy, which makes sense, considering his tiff with Hood and the events surrounding his daughter, and his thirst for vengeance that is never truly slaked. In RotCG there is an instance when Ereko and Traveller meet the Edur ships that also proves it, as the word "god" is thrown around at one point, I believe.

Btw Assail, READ ROTCG! DIDI MAO MEANS DIDI NOW! Badass action sequences abound, especially among the Avowed. Shimmer, Cowl, Iron Bars, Smoky, Skinner, Blues, Fingers...*shudders*. Some of their scenes just scream awesome. Plus, we get to see Laseen and Traveller kick some ass.


Yeah, I was just curious as to whether or not there's been a direct, "Dassem is Dessembrae!".

I plan too, I'm prob gonna go buy NoK, RotCG and the First Dresden book today or tomorrow. I'm looking forward to RotCG, you're like the 2358236587236 person to tell me how much ass it kicks :p

View PostD'rek, on May 7 2009, 07:02 AM, said:

Hell, you can actually prove this using GotM. The book that Kruppe reads about the chainings, when listing folks at the most recent Chaining talks about how Dessembra, Hood's champion was there, and it was there that he shattered his bonds with Hood. Though we don't know it by that point in GotM, we then learn in DG that Dassem was Knight of Death and broke from Hood at the most recent chaining.


I gotcha, I was thinking possibly a GotMism, but I suppose DG clarifies it. Speaking of Dassem breaking off from Hood... will there be any type of proper back story concerning Dassem's daughter and why he took her?
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#9 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 03:28 PM

It's possible. Maybe if Traveller continues his quest for Hood we might get a glimpse into it, because all we really know is that Hood wanted to use her for one of the Chainings, Dassem said no, and there she is in the Azath in DG, possibly alive or dead. I don't know whether ICE or SE would deal with it though...still, it's far more likely that it's one of those things that's never explained, to add a "realistic history" feel to the story.
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#10 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 04:18 PM

I've always figured a proper chaining requires a sacrifice of some sort (kind of like a proper bbq requires beer or a proper fiesta requires a pinata) and while Envy was originally slated for the role, she bailed and Das' daughter was recruited. Alternately, maybe she was 'bait', but while Envy would have survived the process, Das' daughter wasn't nearly in her league and got, literaly, chewed up and spat out.

Azath are great big unknowns, so while everyone seems to agree that the daughter is dead but not decomposing, anything is possible. We've already seen Toc switch bodies, so if a convenient soul showed up needing a new home, well, there she is... okay if Laseen makes it back this way i'm going to vomit in my mouth a little...

Y'know, now that Hood is out of the Death game, there's a vacancy and Dassem was 'Knight of Death' once upon a time... i still think it's going to be Edgewalker, but it would be poetic for Das to take on a new aspect.


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#11 User is offline   foolio 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 05:05 PM

Quote

okay if Laseen makes it back this way i'm going to vomit in my mouth a little...


I am going to try and throw up in erikson's mouth if this happens...
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#12 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 05:12 PM

Abyss, what's your reasoning for thinking it's Edgewalker? I thought he was a slave to Shadow, so how would he command Death?
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#13 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 05:21 PM

I think Abyss believes that Edgewalker was in the TtH Prologue so that the arrangements for Hood's successor could be decided and that he will become the successor in question. Personally , if there will be one, I think it will be Dassem.
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#14 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 05:41 PM

The fact that he says he was brought in to "mitigate" could suggest that, yes. It could also mean Edgewalker was there to smooth the transition between Lords of Death, or even help with the now-free denizens of Dragnipur.
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#15 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 07:40 PM

View PostAssail, on May 7 2009, 05:22 AM, said:

See I don't remember anything concerning Dassem being Dessembrae. I could be wrong but I doubt I'd miss a line stating that Dassem was Dessembrae.

The only indicative event would be when the cult of Dessembrae watched the Rake/Dassem fight.

Then again, I haven't read RotCG (I really need too, I've heard about K'azz being such a badass but haven't met him yet :p)


Assail, I haven't read it for a while, but I believe Leoman expressly says that Dassem Ultor ascended to become Dessembrae in tBH. He talks of it in a conversation with Corabb before they reach Y'Ghatan.
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#16 User is offline   Assail 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 08:23 PM

View PostKhellendros, on May 7 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

View PostAssail, on May 7 2009, 05:22 AM, said:

See I don't remember anything concerning Dassem being Dessembrae. I could be wrong but I doubt I'd miss a line stating that Dassem was Dessembrae.

The only indicative event would be when the cult of Dessembrae watched the Rake/Dassem fight.

Then again, I haven't read RotCG (I really need too, I've heard about K'azz being such a badass but haven't met him yet :p )


Assail, I haven't read it for a while, but I believe Leoman expressly says that Dassem Ultor ascended to become Dessembrae in tBH. He talks of it in a conversation with Corabb before they reach Y'Ghatan.



Now that you remind me, yeah I do recall the conversation. Not completely... but what the hell, I'll look it up.
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#17 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 10:54 PM

View PostAssail, on May 7 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

I plan too, I'm prob gonna go buy NoK, RotCG and the First Dresden book today or tomorrow. I'm looking forward to RotCG, you're like the 2358236587236 person to tell me how much ass it kicks :p


Just so your expectations aren't raised too high, it's worth noting that RotCG isn't that good. You know it isn't Erikson when you're reading it.
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#18 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 02:28 AM

View PostAssail, on May 7 2009, 03:23 PM, said:

View PostKhellendros, on May 7 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

View PostAssail, on May 7 2009, 05:22 AM, said:

See I don't remember anything concerning Dassem being Dessembrae. I could be wrong but I doubt I'd miss a line stating that Dassem was Dessembrae.

The only indicative event would be when the cult of Dessembrae watched the Rake/Dassem fight.

Then again, I haven't read RotCG (I really need too, I've heard about K'azz being such a badass but haven't met him yet :p )


Assail, I haven't read it for a while, but I believe Leoman expressly says that Dassem Ultor ascended to become Dessembrae in tBH. He talks of it in a conversation with Corabb before they reach Y'Ghatan.



Now that you remind me, yeah I do recall the conversation. Not completely... but what the hell, I'll look it up.


Very early on in the book, as they're heading for Y'Ghatan. Leoman and Corabb are chattin' round the fire and Corabb is licking toads. Leoman is prompting Corabb to think about Dassem, Corabb doesn't get it and says "Dessembrae dogs our heels" and Leoman giggles. So Leoman isn't spoon-feed saying it, but it's pretty evident.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#19 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 04:36 AM

View PostDolorous Menhir, on May 8 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

View PostAssail, on May 7 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

I plan too, I'm prob gonna go buy NoK, RotCG and the First Dresden book today or tomorrow. I'm looking forward to RotCG, you're like the 2358236587236 person to tell me how much ass it kicks :p


Just so your expectations aren't raised too high, it's worth noting that RotCG isn't that good. You know it isn't Erikson when you're reading it.

Well of course you know it's not Erikson. For one, there's not that much philosophising, his prose is different, and some of the characters have a different feel to them i.e. Traveller, Temper and Tayschrenn. Also, there are those italicised him and her bits everywhere, but I don't think it detracts all that much from the book. Sure, it's no DG or MoI, but I was never expecting something that felt like Erikson anyway. It's still an awesome book, just not one of the best Malazan ones, and, I must say, ICE can write some damn cool action sequences.
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#20 User is offline   lord of tragedy 

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:58 PM

ice write cool action sequences? not in ROTCG.
if dragnipur is broken and draconus free why not hood too? no way would rake destabilise the pantheon further when MD is the prize they are playing for. edgewalker is very interesting though. i think he's draconion.
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