[Mr.James]

I'm rereading RG and I'm up to the part where the Errant sees Fener hiding in his temple and a couple things confused me...

1.who exactly is fener running from? CG?

2.the Errant commends Fener for restraining his power so far, i got the impression from DG that Fener was powerless...so what's this about leveling up mountains and what not, is he just restraining himself so as not to attract attention?

3.Fener said that Treach was too young and weak so T&G moved up and "flanked, no BECAME the throne" does this mean they ousted treach or are simply backing him up? T&G became masters of the beast hold and Treach is lord of high house war so it's different right???

This post has been edited by Mr.James: 24 April 2009 - 08:55 PM

[lobo the wolfman]

1. Fener is hiding from everyone, since he is on the mortal world it means that he is vulnerable to attack. Some powerful mortals or ascendants can kill him now.

2. Fener is still a very powerful being, no longer a god as such, but still has a lot under the hood that a flesh and blood body would have problems holding in for long. Remember the Semk godling from DG that needed the boby sewn up to keep him in? similar thing here.

3. I think it's been said that there is no reason that there can't be more then one god of war.

Hope all that helps.

[Ganymed]

Hi there, Mr. James. I will try to answer your questions as best as possible...

1. I don't think that it is necessarily the CG who is after Fener. More likely is that Fener acquired more than one enemy over the course of time, and now that he is relatively powerless, that at least one of them seeks revenge.

2. As far as I understand it, Fener's real form is very, very big. So he uses what is left of his power to conceal behind a smaller form and so raise his chances of successfully hiding. Bear in mind that Fener still is an ascendant, but after being deprived of all his godly powers, he is relatively vulnerable. So, while he probably still is insanely powerful in battle, his present power does not suffice to defeat every single one of his hunters.

3. There is only one High House War, and Togg & Fanderay are its Lords. At the same time they are the Bone Perch of the Beast Hold. Treach is Hunter of High House War and therefore not its ruler. I hope this two links clarify:

http://encyclopediam.../High+House+War
http://encyclopediam...%20Beast%20Hold

Hope I could help.

[Mr.James]

Thanks guys, this clarifies matters,,
but didn't Treach ascend to be the god of war in MOI or did I misread that part??? or did he step aside when T&G came....

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Mr.James, on Apr 24 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

Thanks guys, this clarifies matters,,
but didn't Treach ascend to be the god of war in MOI or did I misread that part??? or did he step aside when T&G came....

I think the problem was that when Fener was pulled into the mortal realm the position of god of war needed to be filled immediately, and Treach was probably the best option at that moment to ascend to it. When T & F finally met up, they were much more powerful, and able to fully rule the House of War, and kind of just jumped over Treach. Basically, Treach was a steward for them the way I understood it.

Also, Ganymed, what makes you think that Fener's form is so big? I have no idea of whether it is or not,but obviously he was a very powerful god so it could be he fights like Kilmandaros, I just don't remember any references to the size of Fener's real form.

[Ganymed]

Mr.James, on Apr 24 2009, 11:46 PM, said:

Thanks guys, this clarifies matters,,
but didn't Treach ascend to be the god of war in MOI or did I misread that part??? or did he step aside when T&G came....

No problem, dude.

Actually I too am not so sure about what happened then. I think Treach was in the position to become the god of war, but when Togg & Fanderay unexpectedly became free of their eternal curse, he wasn't first pick anymore. So, he stepped aside, sort of. It is not as if he had any chance. At least that is how I understand it.

[Mr.James]

I think Ganymed is right about Fener Being huge, If I remember correctly, when Heboric accidentaly called him to the world all he he saw was a gigantic hoof....as far as i recall....

[Ganymed]

The all knowing encyclopaedia knows all answers. At least a lot of them:

Quote

Fener's Fall

After Baudin touches Heboric's stump (the one that came into contact with the Jade Giant) to Fener's sacred mark:

'The air screamed. The sound battered them, flung them both down to scrabble, claw, mindlessly dig into the rock - away...away from the pain. Away! There was such agony in that shriek, it descended like fire, darkening the sky overhead, spreading hairline fissures through the bedrock, the cracks spreading outward from under Heboric's motionless body...Blood streaming from her ears...Heboric's tattoos had blossomed out from his body, leapt the unfathomable distance from skin to stone...turning the rock into something slick and greasy...Everything had begun to shake. Even the sky seemed to twist, yanked down into itself as if a score of invisible hands had reached through unseen portals, grasping the fabric of the world with cold, destructive rage...The scream was unending. Rage and unbearable pain meshed together like twin strands in an ever-tightening rope...the sound blocked the outside world - its air, its light...Something struck the ground, the bedrock...shuddering...a glimpse of something beyond the basin, lifting ponderously from the plain in a heaving cloud of dust. Two-toed, a fur-snarled hoof, too large for her to fully grasp, rising up, pulled skyward into a midnight gloom...The tattoo had leapt from stone to the air itself, a woad-stained web growing in crazed, jerking blots, snapping outward in all directions...The tattoo hung like an after-image across the entire sky, slowly fading...Have you come from the Abyss, Fener? It's said your sacred warren borders Chaos itself. Fener? Are you among us now?'

DG, UK MMPB, p.289-90

I think it mentioned in RG, too, that his true form is very big and that he uses his remaining power to keep smaller, but I'm to lazy now to search in my copy.

EDIT: bold

This post has been edited by Ganymed: 24 April 2009 - 10:05 PM

[Mr.James]

Cool...That's the qoute I was trying to remember....Thanks Ganymed!!

[Ganymed]

Hrraraaah, now you got me. I made the effort and searched RG for the part with the Errant and Fener and after 10 minutes or so I found it. Here it comes:

Quote

'It is something,' the Errant observed, ' to hold yourself to such a modest form. But how much longer will your control last? How soon before you burst the confines of this temple of mine? How long before you heave yourself into the view of all, shouldering aside the clouds, shaking the mountains to dust---'

RG, UK MMPB, p. 240

Fuck me, I just spent the last 20 minutes finding the page again, after I had found it and then unintentionally shut the book.

[Mr.James]

Here's the qoute from RG:

Quote

RG TOR pg.229
'It is something' the Errant observed 'to hold yourself to such a modest form. But how much longer will taht control last? How long before you burst the confines of this temple of mine? How long before you heave yourself into view of all, shoulderinng aside the clouds, shaking mountains to dust..'

another thing just occured to me, Fener said this too.."HE might have returned me, you know, along with other....gifts.But alas he failed...."
I'm assuming he's talking about Heboric, but what were the other gifts heboric might have given Fener? Aside from returning him to godhood??

[Mr.James]

Damn....you beat me to it.....my browser went crazy when i hit the submit button....I had to write all over again.....

[Ganymed]

Nice work, Mr. James! Regarding that second part: I absolutely have no idea. I, too, assume that Heboric is meant, and maybe those other gifts have something to do with Heboric's jade 'infection', but honestly... I dunno.

[Mr.James]

I couldn't think of anything heboric might give Fener, But I've always viewed Heboric as more of an ousted priest.

Spoiler

And I'm assuming more on the Heboric-Fener relationship will be explained

in DOD according to the prologue

I'm not sure I have to spoiler that, but better be on the safe side....

[chill]

I might be wrong, but I think Heboric is working for Treach now, more or less willingly. It was mentioned in HoC. What if Fener has to fight to get him back? Im not sure Heboric is worth the bother.

[Mr.James]

Spoilers from DOD prologue:

Spoiler

I think Heboric switched back to Fener's side, either willingly or not...In the
DOD prologue, he mentions being the destriant to a cast down god. This
could mean he's talking about Treach since he's no longer the GoW, but then
he says 'I see you Fener' so I'm guessing he switched back....

another thing...If Treach is no longer GoW, what happened to gruntle? is he still MS??

This post has been edited by Mr.James: 25 April 2009 - 08:12 AM

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Yes. A Mortal Sword is the mortal (obviously) servant of a God. While no longer the God of War, Treach is, however, still a God and so Gruntle's position is unchanged

[D'rek]

Everything sounds great so far. Just an additional tidbit I'd like to add: before late MoI/early HoC, there was no High House War. Fener was a god of war, the pre-eminent-most one, in fact, but he was not part of a House and there could well be other gods of war. Togg and Treach were both already acknowledged as alternative gods of war, but Togg's worshippers were few and far between because, being lost, Togg was not nearly as potent as Fener. Still, Togg was acknowledged enough that it was common enough for soldiers to invoke his name (not religiously, just the sort of Hood's Breath style) (also note Togg and Fandy had priests in the Mask Council, though relegated to menial tasks). Treach, on the other hand, being crazy and just an Ascendant, likewise did not have much more than a scattered cult.

When Fener descended and Treach died and grew to godhood, Treach's cult went mainstream, hence new temples in various cities and Rath'Trake added to the Mask Council in Capustan, etc. High House War, however, probably didn't take shape until a while later, after the Wolves had also met and redoubled their efficacy. So, I don't think there is really a leap-frogging issue, it's just that for a brief interval before the Wolves took the Beast Hold, Treach was the only God of War, and so had automatic pre-eminence.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Ganymed, on Apr 24 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

Hrraraaah, now you got me. I made the effort and searched RG for the part with the Errant and Fener and after 10 minutes or so I found it. Here it comes:

Quote

'It is something,' the Errant observed, ' to hold yourself to such a modest form. But how much longer will your control last? How soon before you burst the confines of this temple of mine? How long before you heave yourself into the view of all, shouldering aside the clouds, shaking the mountains to dust---'

RG, UK MMPB, p. 240

Fuck me, I just spent the last 20 minutes finding the page again, after I had found it and then unintentionally shut the book.

ahhh ok thanks...I don't know why I didn't remember that, maybe when I saw it I thought of it as more of a metaphor for how insanely powerful he was and didn't think about his actual size.

[Excellence]

The wolfman gave you some pretty good answers there.

Yep, it's so "casually" affirmed the wolves flank the throne, not actually sit it. And nothing is fixed. One book has Trake ascending Fener's career, a later book showing he's been given help.

And lets not forget, these wolves are older than any deity there. Okay, separated for about 120,000yrs or so, but far older than the Elders too, from what I can tell...