[Ruse]

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 02:11 AM, said:

Ruse, on Apr 27 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

Fener, did you want a reveal and counter-reveal on the Day 1 lynch so you could you could use your find?

Yes. Hence my annoyance at Emurlahn. If Liosan had revealed, and there was a counter, i'd have had a decent chance of being able to find a killer. Of course, they could have been a symp. But it was a better shot at a killer than picking out of 22.

Plus I thought that if Liosan had claimed finder i'd have known he was lying. Given Kesso's later reveal as a finder, clearly that was wrong, but I don't see how I could have been expected to know that.

Yeah it makes sense to me, no wonder I keyed on it quite a while ago. Please use your find on me if not tonight, then tomorrow, so that when I say 'you play a shitty finder' you know I'm being honest.

[Fener]

Ruse, on Apr 27 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 02:11 AM, said:

Ruse, on Apr 27 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

Fener, did you want a reveal and counter-reveal on the Day 1 lynch so you could you could use your find?

Yes. Hence my annoyance at Emurlahn. If Liosan had revealed, and there was a counter, i'd have had a decent chance of being able to find a killer. Of course, they could have been a symp. But it was a better shot at a killer than picking out of 22.

Plus I thought that if Liosan had claimed finder i'd have known he was lying. Given Kesso's later reveal as a finder, clearly that was wrong, but I don't see how I could have been expected to know that.

Yeah it makes sense to me, no wonder I keyed on it quite a while ago. Please use your find on me if not tonight, then tomorrow, so that when I say 'you play a shitty finder' you know I'm being honest.

You think i'm going to survive that long? I think i'm dead tonight. And if they kill Kesso tonight, then i'm dead tomorrow.

[Serc]

Christ, what a balls up. Two finder reveals day three with like 20 people still in the game O_o. Ok, there's tons of different ways this could be going, depending on who's lying about what. Like everyone has mentioned before, lynching Mockra is the easiest way to test the truth, although people could still be lying, I dunno. I'm willing to put a vote on on Mockra, but he's at L-2 now and there's still a couple of hours left. I should be around for a while still so I can hold my vote if people need to discuss things.

My biggest fear is that if Fener is a symp he has managed to screw us over quite well. Guess to too late to cry over spilt milk at this point. I really dont think Kesso needed to reveal but w/e. I can see there being two unpaired finders in this game, but I doubt there would also be two unpaired healers as well. Even if there were, they would need to somehow choose to heal different people without any offthread comms. /sigh. I really hope we get lucky tonight and dont have a kill, but if Kesso and Fener are telling the truth then one of the two will most likely be dead tomorrow.

Although if Mockra does turn up scum I think it does give us quite a bit of info. Obviously not everyone who's been defending Mockra is scum, there's too many people for that, but with the sheer number of people, I'm sure most of his symps would be in there.

[Ruse]

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 02:16 AM, said:

Ruse, on Apr 27 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 02:11 AM, said:

Ruse, on Apr 27 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

Fener, did you want a reveal and counter-reveal on the Day 1 lynch so you could you could use your find?

Yes. Hence my annoyance at Emurlahn. If Liosan had revealed, and there was a counter, i'd have had a decent chance of being able to find a killer. Of course, they could have been a symp. But it was a better shot at a killer than picking out of 22.

Plus I thought that if Liosan had claimed finder i'd have known he was lying. Given Kesso's later reveal as a finder, clearly that was wrong, but I don't see how I could have been expected to know that.

Yeah it makes sense to me, no wonder I keyed on it quite a while ago. Please use your find on me if not tonight, then tomorrow, so that when I say 'you play a shitty finder' you know I'm being honest.

You think i'm going to survive that long? I think i'm dead tonight. And if they kill Kesso tonight, then i'm dead tomorrow.

Seems like you probably get healed tonight, depending on Sunday attendance. Would suck if Rashan was the healer though wouldn't it.

[Shadow]

Remove Vote

Vote Mockra

Well, if Mockra turns out to be a killer, then I think there's two possibilities to consider:

The not-that-out-there possibility: I was right, and D'riss is a symp, who may turn into a killer after Mockra's death. However, he's called for a find on himself tonight, suggesting he believes he'll come up inno.


The really-out-there possibility: Fener is a symp screwing over the killer Mockra, in order to become killer himself and have a clear shot at endgame as he'll be CI or at least PI in many people's books.

[Shadow]

Do people want me to remove the vote for now and discuss further, or shall I leave it. Seems to me we just want to see what happens with Mockra's lynch now.

[Ruse]

@ shadow I think it's L-1 now and a few people want more time, the rest of us are holding are(our) breath in anticipation of something we aren't going to get for 4ish more hours until Bent wakes up.

edit- in parenthesis

This post has been edited by Ruse: 27 April 2009 - 09:27 AM

[Shadow]

Another thing is, all those suddenly jumping up and saying 'you played a crap game Fener' are being really big-headed and full of themselves. If he's a legitimate finder, I see nothing wrong in how he played it - he made a case on Mockra first and defended it throughout the day. Trouble is, very few bought it and instead started baying for his blood for the simple reason that he wound them up the wrong way, rather than (for most) because they thought he could be a killer. Yeah, that's really good play that is.

And just like in many many other mafia games we've had, he had to eventually reveal finder anyway because not enough people believed him. Let's be fair, it is hugely hard to get a consensus going this early in the game, with so many votes needed. It wasn't exactly the easiest job in the world trying to convince ten other people to vote Mockra without revealing anything.

[Fener]

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

Do people want me to remove the vote for now and discuss further, or shall I leave it. Seems to me we just want to see what happens with Mockra's lynch now.

Remove vote if you'll be back in time to lynch. I want to give any possible healer as much time as possible.

[Shadow]

Very well,

Remove Vote

But it'll be back up there in an hour or so probs.


Edit: By which I mean, yes, I'll be around for deadline.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 27 April 2009 - 09:29 AM

[Serc]

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 11:23 AM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Mockra

Well, if Mockra turns out to be a killer, then I think there's two possibilities to consider:

The not-that-out-there possibility: I was right, and D'riss is a symp, who may turn into a killer after Mockra's death. However, he's called for a find on himself tonight, suggesting he believes he'll come up inno.


The really-out-there possibility: Fener is a symp screwing over the killer Mockra, in order to become killer himself and have a clear shot at endgame as he'll be CI or at least PI in many people's books.

This does bring up the very valid point that after every scum lynch, all the inno finds become meaningless. Because the killer shifts anyone who's been cleared could have become the killer. I'm not sure if that makes the finders more or less important, but it does mean we cant CI anyone for more than a couple of days at a time.

[Fener]

The deadline is just over 4 hours from now. I'd prefer us to use all that time.

[Shadow]

Yes, sorry, I thought the deadline was much closer than that. But yeah, I'll hold till then.

[Fener]

Serc, on Apr 27 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 11:23 AM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Mockra

Well, if Mockra turns out to be a killer, then I think there's two possibilities to consider:

The not-that-out-there possibility: I was right, and D'riss is a symp, who may turn into a killer after Mockra's death. However, he's called for a find on himself tonight, suggesting he believes he'll come up inno.


The really-out-there possibility: Fener is a symp screwing over the killer Mockra, in order to become killer himself and have a clear shot at endgame as he'll be CI or at least PI in many people's books.

This does bring up the very valid point that after every scum lynch, all the inno finds become meaningless. Because the killer shifts anyone who's been cleared could have become the killer. I'm not sure if that makes the finders more or less important, but it does mean we cant CI anyone for more than a couple of days at a time.

Agreed. It's a reason to trust Kesso, because we'd need more finds for balance. I'll have to think about it.

How many symps do we think we have? If we assume 5 evil players, are we expecting:

1 killer and 4 symps?
2 killers and 3 symps?
3 killers and 2 symps?
4 killers and 1 symp?

[Serc]

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 11:34 AM, said:

Serc, on Apr 27 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 11:23 AM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Mockra

Well, if Mockra turns out to be a killer, then I think there's two possibilities to consider:

The not-that-out-there possibility: I was right, and D'riss is a symp, who may turn into a killer after Mockra's death. However, he's called for a find on himself tonight, suggesting he believes he'll come up inno.


The really-out-there possibility: Fener is a symp screwing over the killer Mockra, in order to become killer himself and have a clear shot at endgame as he'll be CI or at least PI in many people's books.

This does bring up the very valid point that after every scum lynch, all the inno finds become meaningless. Because the killer shifts anyone who's been cleared could have become the killer. I'm not sure if that makes the finders more or less important, but it does mean we cant CI anyone for more than a couple of days at a time.

Agreed. It's a reason to trust Kesso, because we'd need more finds for balance. I'll have to think about it.

How many symps do we think we have? If we assume 5 evil players, are we expecting:

1 killer and 4 symps?
2 killers and 3 symps?
3 killers and 2 symps?
4 killers and 1 symp?

This is pure speculation, but if I had set this game up I would have had an equal number of killers and symp (2 or 3) with each symp knowing one killer and taking over from him, with the killers able to talk of thread. But that's just me and I like slightly screwy games. It could also be a linear chain with one or two killers that all the symps know about and the symps taking over in some predetermined sequence. That's probably more likely, but I dunno. Either way I would expect somewhere between 4 and 6 scum. With the symps able to take over, I doubt more than 2 will be killers at any given time.

[Fener]

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

It wasn't exactly the easiest job in the world trying to convince ten other people to vote Mockra without revealing anything.

Heh. Yeah. Plus I had to convince 10 people with 4 or 5 evil players on my back.

[Fener]

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

Trouble is, very few bought it and instead started baying for his blood for the simple reason that he wound them up the wrong way,

Again, yeah. In my experience, the people who wind you up the wrong way are a lot less likely to be guilty. It's the quiet agreeable ones you've got to look out for.

[Anomandaris]

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 10:40 AM, said:

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

It wasn't exactly the easiest job in the world trying to convince ten other people to vote Mockra without revealing anything.

Heh. Yeah. Plus I had to convince 10 people with 4 or 5 evil players on my back.

so, do you have a partner fener or are you going it alone?

[Fener]

Thoughts on a few players, given i'm likely to die tonight. Not everyone yet, you'll probably have to work through that over the next few days. Feel free to not go by this and think for yourselves.

Shadow looks good. I don't see a partner or symp pointing out D'riss's symp clue to Mockra. Shadow is VPI.

Serc looks good, argued a bit with Mockra after the initial case. Serc also argued with Meanas today about the possible symp clue. Not a symp, unlikely to be a partner. PI.

Omtose looks terrible.

D'riss looks bad for the symp clue.

Emurlahn looks bad, and is a likely partner. I got the feeling that they've been defending each other before today, and today made it look even more likely IMO.

Meanas looks bad for his reaction to my day 1 case, as well as trying to ague away the possible symp clue today.

Tellan looks bad for his reaction to my day 1 case, but better for his reaction to my reveal. Dunno.

Edit: "ague" = "argue".

This post has been edited by Fener: 27 April 2009 - 10:24 AM

[Serc]

Anomandaris, on Apr 27 2009, 11:47 AM, said:

Fener, on Apr 27 2009, 10:40 AM, said:

Shadow, on Apr 27 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

It wasn't exactly the easiest job in the world trying to convince ten other people to vote Mockra without revealing anything.

Heh. Yeah. Plus I had to convince 10 people with 4 or 5 evil players on my back.

so, do you have a partner fener or are you going it alone?

If he does have a partner he definitely shouldnt reveal the fact.