[Silencer]

I can't really say. I just happen to be an administrator on the forum hosting them. I believe they're separate, as they are not operating as one group but as a set of mods looking to help each other, but there may very well be members of the TR team and/or prospects for collaboration with said massive, eternal project in the future. *shrug* All I can say is that they are definitely NOT the TR team on the whole, hence the different project name and the fact that most of them are start-up.

[SylvanShade]

I've been looking around. So far I've come across three main project teams, all of which are very... ambitious.
The Nirn Project, Beyond Skyrim and Tamriel Rebuilt.

What I think is that they should all merge into one unified project. And there needs to be more publicity so information can spread better and more people join the team. I only just found out about all this a moment ago when you, Silencer, informed me of Beyond Skyrim. Otherwise I would have gone on for ages, completely clueless.

I'm currently in the process of gaining membership on all these projects so I can suggest a merge. I just came across THIS brief discussion of 'options' regarding outside projects of the same nature on the Nirn Project home wiki. And as you can see, options include:

Quote

A ) Try and persuade the Beyond Skyrim Wiki to merge into the The Nirn Project
B ) Try to merge The Nirn Project into the Beyond Skyrim Wiki

But there's no option involving the creation of a whole new project that is neither Beyond Skyrim nor Project Nirn.
I'm not sure if they are hesitant to merge into the - for want of a better word - opposition because they don't want to take the 'passenger seat' or something, is it fear of losing the position of leadership on their project? If they merge in an equal nature, they can all keep their crowns.

Perhaps I'm missing something entirely. Anyone care to inform me if what I'm suggesting isn't possible or just plain ridiculous?

[Silencer]

Part of it is probably a sense of ownership and fear that your hours, literally possibly hundreds of hours, of work get absorbed into something else - and quite possibly replaced because someone over there can do what you do better (artists often have a horrible sense of pride in these things, and most modders are, for better or for worse, in that category of artist; not to demean, many modders, especially the ones I've known and worked with, are great people and great modders, but it is a minor character flaw ).

Part of it is also simple logistics. You end up with duplicate work, you gain a larger team structure, therefore requiring more organization and communication, which are two of the hardest things to maintain in a larger project, especially one filled with part-timer, unpaid members who only talk over the internet. This, I feel, is likely a major concern, and a driving factor in the BS teams' desire to remain independent, even while working together.

But believe me, discussions of that sort are ongoing. The entire BS thing was founded out of a discussion launched on the Bethesda forums, I think it's likely still active, and probably filled with talk on the Nirn Project and Tamriel Rebuilt and their role in or potential conflicts with the BS project. (hehe...BS project...XD)

I haven't been keeping close tabs on the Beyond Skyrim thing (the website/forum that is hosting them I mentioned earlier, Dark Creations (.org), also home of the Dark Brotherhood Chronicles, has a policy of admins staying out of private fora of projects for the most part) but I'm certain I've seen threads about this on there, as well, plus who knows what goes on in PM.

I very much doubt the projects are ignoring the obvious, in this case. But as I say, logistics, pride/egos, as well as the horror of choosing where to hang out to work (TR have their own forums, Nirn Project have their own, and a wiki, as do Beyond Skyrim) and so forth...heh. It's a big mountain. But this early phase is probably the best time to combine. I think there's also probably a worry of people feeling left out of a large enough team, so instead of three medium-large teams working independently you end up with one medium team and everyone else burnt out and no longer modding, leading to an inferior end product even if it does release, whereas if you have three teams at least one of them should have something to show after a couple of years, even if it's just one or two mostly empty provinces. >.<

Iunno. It's complicated.




EDIT: And to more solidly answer the question of Tamriel Rebuilt's relationship to Beyond Skyrim: no, they are not related at all. Just found a post (actually it just got bumped by someone else) on that very subject and it was a simple answer. So there we go. XD

[Silencer]

Hell, no! Lol. They are mods being created by users, so it's highly unlikely they would ever become anything like DLC. You'll have to download them (if you play on PC) once they're complete (in a couple of years, minimum), off a mod site. On the plus side, guaranteed to be free.

[Beezulbubba]

Great stinky lower tusks! I just became "blood kin" to the Orcs! I was wondering how that is accomplished! Now I think I want to marry one!

[SylvanShade]

 Silencer, on 11 February 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Part of it is probably a sense of ownership and fear that your hours, literally possibly hundreds of hours, of work get absorbed into something else - and quite possibly replaced because someone over there can do what you do better (artists often have a horrible sense of pride in these things, and most modders are, for better or for worse, in that category of artist; not to demean, many modders, especially the ones I've known and worked with, are great people and great modders, but it is a minor character flaw ).

Part of it is also simple logistics. You end up with duplicate work, you gain a larger team structure, therefore requiring more organization and communication, which are two of the hardest things to maintain in a larger project, especially one filled with part-timer, unpaid members who only talk over the internet. This, I feel, is likely a major concern, and a driving factor in the BS teams' desire to remain independent, even while working together.

But believe me, discussions of that sort are ongoing. The entire BS thing was founded out of a discussion launched on the Bethesda forums, I think it's likely still active, and probably filled with talk on the Nirn Project and Tamriel Rebuilt and their role in or potential conflicts with the BS project. (hehe...BS project...XD)

I haven't been keeping close tabs on the Beyond Skyrim thing (the website/forum that is hosting them I mentioned earlier, Dark Creations (.org), also home of the Dark Brotherhood Chronicles, has a policy of admins staying out of private fora of projects for the most part) but I'm certain I've seen threads about this on there, as well, plus who knows what goes on in PM.

I very much doubt the projects are ignoring the obvious, in this case. But as I say, logistics, pride/egos, as well as the horror of choosing where to hang out to work (TR have their own forums, Nirn Project have their own, and a wiki, as do Beyond Skyrim) and so forth...heh. It's a big mountain. But this early phase is probably the best time to combine. I think there's also probably a worry of people feeling left out of a large enough team, so instead of three medium-large teams working independently you end up with one medium team and everyone else burnt out and no longer modding, leading to an inferior end product even if it does release, whereas if you have three teams at least one of them should have something to show after a couple of years, even if it's just one or two mostly empty provinces. >.<

Iunno. It's complicated.




EDIT: And to more solidly answer the question of Tamriel Rebuilt's relationship to Beyond Skyrim: no, they are not related at all. Just found a post (actually it just got bumped by someone else) on that very subject and it was a simple answer. So there we go. XD

Oh I see, that makes a lot of sense. I can't blame them for coveting their work with a sense of pride, I couldn't imagine being much different if it came to my writing.
Perhaps I shall sit back and leave it to the people who know what they're doing, haha.

[champ]

random /q, I've found myself doing the side quests more so far than the main quest, is there any benefit to doing it a certain way around or are my meandering ways fine!

and Shadowmare rocks!

[Silencer]

Dude, it's an Elder Scrolls game. The POINT is to play it how you want to! XD

That being said, some of the shouts 'n stuff can be useful. But unlike Oblivion, Dragons don't just stop showing up once you complete the main quest, so it's not like those random encounters will go away (plus, they're awesome, unlike Oblivion Gates) or anything. So yeah, just roll how you find yourself feeling.

[champ]

Sweet, thanks. I wasn't sure if I completed the main quest it would shut down some of the side quests and I wanted to get the full experience!

Plus it's my first Elder Scrolls game too... from the delights of Skyrim I believe I may have been missing out!

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

And yet the art style has degraded depressingly.

[Silencer]

IWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRant
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otRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRa
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illNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNo
tRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRant
IWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWil
lNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotR
antIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWi
llNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNo
tRantIWillNotRant

/end madness mantra....

[Dolorous Menhir]

 Briar King, on 11 February 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

I just became the Arch Mage. Kind of anticlimatic if yall ask me..

As have I. Yet I'm still doing missions for the students and I can't order the academics to teach me for free.

[SylvanShade]

 Silencer, on 13 February 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

IWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRant
IWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWil
lNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillN
otRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRa
ntIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIW
illNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNo
tRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRant
IWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWil
lNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotR
antIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWi
llNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNotRantIWillNo
tRantIWillNotRant

/end madness mantra....

Do it... RANT!!

[Silencer]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

There's already four or five (at least) of those rants lying around on this board, can't you just go and find one of them? XD I'm trying to prevent myself from ranting about Skyrim's faults, seeing as it is SO much better than Oblivion. >.<

[SylvanShade]

I tend to be radical when it comes to the Elder Scrolls, each game, to me, is better. And that's not an opinion, it is preference.

That's most likely because I don't play them as a game. I purchase them on PC in order to use them as a basis for building upon my own experience with mods and other tools to improve immersion and realism.

So whichever installment has the better foundations, I find to favor more so. Therefor, I loved Morrowind, but then Oblivion was released, and I loved Oblivion more, and Skyrim more than Oblivion.

Morrowind was great, but I just couldn't feel it, I wasn't in it. All my senses pleaded for an immersive escape, but in the end they screamed: 'it's a computer game!' What I received from Morrowind were good game mechanics and decent plot (Uncommon for Elder Scrolls). What I recieved from Oblivion was a bland canvas, but with much improved physics mechanics and animation, all it took was for me to mod it to my liking. What I hope to get from Skyrim, is an overall enhancement to everything.

There's my two cents.

[Silencer]

Yeah, I get that, from a modding perspective the latest and greatest tech is going to be superior - though that doesn't, imo, excuse the devs from being lazy and removing perfectly good content and depth in the name of marketability. There STILL isn't a good mod for Oblivion for: crossbows, spears, long blade/short blade, unarmoured, etc etc. The basic game is not just a blank (and bland) canvas, it's a degraded version of Morrowind. It sacrificed basic EVERYTHING for awesome SHINY. That's not good.

And while mods make Oblivion into an unquestionably different (and better) game - they are all, nonetheless, done by amateurs, and therefore flawed and do not replace the depth of story or uniqueness of world that Morrowind, hand-crafted by the professionals, had.

Anyway. I shall not be lured into a long, ranting debate - for me it is Morrowind #1, Skyrim #2 (with much mod potential to go) and Oblivion #40,000 somewhere not even on the same chart anymore. Or, more conventionally, a far third within the franchise. XD

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

No love for Daggerfall? I really do enjoy Skyrim, but it'll take a lot of modding to supplant DF as my #2. To be perfectly honest, it might have ended up my favourite of the series if not for extensive Morrowind modding and nostalgia.

[SylvanShade]

Well, I've played a lot of games, but I'm a person that prefers Twilight Princess to Ocarina of Time, so perhaps I shouldn't have much of a say when it come to gaming. Haha.
Agreed, Morrowind is better than Oblivion in it's raw state. Without the help of mods, Oblivion falls sorely at Morrowind's feet.

[Gothos]

 SylvanShade, on 13 February 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

Well, I've played a lot of games, but I'm a person that prefers Twilight Princess to Ocarina of Time, so perhaps I shouldn't have much of a say when it come to gaming. Haha.
Agreed, Morrowind is better than Oblivion in it's raw state. Without the help of mods, Oblivion falls sorely at Morrowind's feet.

You have now been branded a heretic, sir.

[SylvanShade]

 Gothos, on 13 February 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

You have now been branded a heretic, sir.

KILL IT ME! WITH FIRE!

Alas, when it comes to video games, I have very low patience. If something is difficult, and I cannot turn the difficulty down or cheat, I give up completely. Like I did with Demon's Souls after dieing for the third time, on the first boss...