[sappers to the breach]

ok so i was originally under the impression that blackwood was the sacred living wood invested with magic special to edur, and native to the edur lands. and that bloodwood was just an amazing hard wood that was native to the teblor lands. but in the begining of reapers gale, pg 87 ' the ornate carrige trimmed in gleaming bloodwood" and somewhere else it mentions the 'black-bloodwood' now am i just misreading this, are they the same thing. or are they really 2 different things, and SE just made a mistake when he made reference to the type of wood. i know it is pretty petty but it caught my eye? let me know thanks,

[Abyss]

Blackwood is, as you note, the 'holy' Edur trees found in Leth and used for weapons, burial, etc.

Bloodwood is a tree that grows in Teblor territory and seems to have similar properties as blackwood, with a different colour.

Bloodwood seems to have a link to 'bloodoil' which is in turn linked to Otataral. Bloodwood can hold an edge and the Teblor use it for swords. It can also 'heal' nicks and dents. Blackwood doesn't seem to have these same properties. Trull's spear haft in MT is made of blackwood but Edur armour and swords are forged metal and hardened skin, not wood.

It's entirely possible they are the same basic species which has adapted differently in different places. A dark enough shade of red/blood could appear black.

- Abyss, can't see the wood for the trees...

[D'rek]

Well it's possible it's just a mistake, but blackwood is seen in many other places than Edur areas, though these *could* be areas where Edur used to be (ie the areas Apsalar walks through in BH). Likewise, it's possible that bloodwood is widespread as well... there's also ironwood. Personally, I figure blackwood is relatively common and can be found on most continents with a little searching, bloodwood can also be found in many places, but that the bloodoil is unique to the bloodwood trees of Laederon and any other places they're just strong trees...

[Zombrey]

My understanding is what makes the Teblor's wood 'bloodwood' was the application of bloodoil which I believe I recall Karsa mentioning that it has to be found/gathered.

[Hetan]

blood-oil is made from otataral

Quote

Karsa turned. ‘What is this “otataral” everyone speaks of?’
‘A bane to magic.’
‘And it must be mined.’
‘Yes. It’s usually a powder, found in layers, like sandstone. Resembles
rust.’
‘We scrape a red powder from cliffsides to make our blood-oil,’ the
Teblor murmured.
‘What is blood-oil?’
‘We rub it into our swords, and into our armour. To bring on battle
madness, we taste it.’
The stranger was silent for a moment, though Karsa could feel the
man’s eyes on him. ‘And how well does magic work against you?’
‘Those who attack me with sorcery usually reveal surprise on their
faces . . . just before I kill them.’
‘Well now, that is interesting. It is believed that otataral is only found
on the single large island east of here. The empire controls its production.
Tightly. Their mages learned the hard way during the
conquest, in the battles before the T’lan Imass got involved. If not for
the T’lan Imass, the invasion would have failed. I have some more
advice for you. Reveal nothing of this to the Malazans. If they discover
there is another source of otataral, a source they do not control,
well, they will send into your homeland – wherever that is – every
regiment they possess. They will crush your people. Utterly.’

[HoosierDaddy]

Abyss, on Mar 30 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

Blackwood is, as you note, the 'holy' Edur trees found in Leth and used for weapons, burial, etc.
....

Isn't the real important aspect of Blackwood it's properties in a naval vessel? That was what the Letherii really wanted the Edur lands for, in the most part, in Midnight Tides?

[Hetan]

yup, Seren muses about it:

Quote

And the Blackwood . . .
Of course. It’s the living wood that we hunger for, the source of ships
that can heal themselves, that cut the waves faster than our sleekest
galleys, that resist magic unleashed upon them. That is at the heart of
this game.

[Hetan]

Interestingly, bloodwood is never mentioned in Midnight Tides, but turns up in Edur usage in Reaper's Gale (trim for an ornate carriage, a composite bow and some bowls) - the suggestion is that it's inappropriate to use bloodwood for bowls and whatnot but in MT, blackwood is used for furniture as well as weapons, coffins, etc. Blackwood remains living after having been harvested.

Regarding the properties of bloodwood:

Quote

The blade’s wood was deep red, almost black,
the glassy polish making the painted warcrest seem to float a finger’s
width above the surface. The weapon’s edge was almost translucent,
where the blood-oil rubbed into the grain had hardened, coming to
replace the wood. There were no nicks or notches along the edge, only
a slight rippling of the line where damage had repaired itself, for bloodoil
clung to its memory and would little tolerate denting or scarring.

Quote

ironwood was heavier than bloodwood, its edge
rougher although almost – but not quite – as hard. It did not slice the
air with the ease of his oiled bloodwood sword.

so bloodwood is very hard and light, but probably not 'living' as with blackwood. It's the otataral oil that gives the bloodwood swords their ability to 'heal' and produces a sharper edge than the wood alone would possess.

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks for the quotes, Hetan.

So, I guess the "interest" in Blackwood in Midnight Tides is necessary because it was the Edur fleets that were really the "scourge" of Wu from MT to TBH.

Is the newly found "Blood oil" something to do with the Letherii Empire, or is a random encounter?

[beru]

the bloodoil heals what ever its aplied on to the form it was when the oil was aplied... (the wooden swords, the woman ect.)

[Hetan]

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 31 2009, 09:18 AM, said:

Thanks for the quotes, Hetan.

So, I guess the "interest" in Blackwood in Midnight Tides is necessary because it was the Edur fleets that were really the "scourge" of Wu from MT to TBH.

Is the newly found "Blood oil" something to do with the Letherii Empire, or is a random encounter?

newly found? in any case, blood-oil is unknown to the Letherii and the Edur as far as we know. The conversation between Phyrlis and Cynnigig in HoC indicates that the Toblakai of old used blood-oil as well, which is the only way they can explain the vast herd of Jhag horses that come in answer to the call on Karsa's behalf - so, it appears to be a Toblakai secret. We certainly don't hear of anybody else using it, although it does affect humans in its 'mad hungry lust' application and we saw what advantages Rallick Nom acquired by rubbing the dust in his skin and of course, the Adjuncts.

[Aptorian]

Wasn't there mention of the Edur pouring blood on their tree's in RG? Don't know how this related though.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hetan, on Mar 31 2009, 04:29 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 31 2009, 09:18 AM, said:

Thanks for the quotes, Hetan.

So, I guess the "interest" in Blackwood in Midnight Tides is necessary because it was the Edur fleets that were really the "scourge" of Wu from MT to TBH.

Is the newly found "Blood oil" something to do with the Letherii Empire, or is a random encounter?

newly found? in any case, blood-oil is unknown to the Letherii and the Edur as far as we know. The conversation between Phyrlis and Cynnigig in HoC indicates that the Toblakai of old used blood-oil as well, which is the only way they can explain the vast herd of Jhag horses that come in answer to the call on Karsa's behalf - so, it appears to be a Toblakai secret. We certainly don't hear of anybody else using it, although it does affect humans in its 'mad hungry lust' application and we saw what advantages Rallick Nom acquired by rubbing the dust in his skin and of course, the Adjuncts.

I meant "Newly found" in a Letherii sort of way:

Abyss, on Mar 30 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

....

Bloodwood is a tree that grows in Teblor territory and seems to have similar properties as blackwood, with a different colour.

Bloodwood seems to have a link to 'bloodoil' which is in turn linked to Otataral. Bloodwood can hold an edge and the Teblor use it for swords. It can also 'heal' nicks and dents. Blackwood doesn't seem to have these same properties. Trull's spear haft in MT is made of blackwood but Edur armour and swords are forged metal and hardened skin, not wood.

It's entirely possible they are the same basic species which has adapted differently in different places. A dark enough shade of red/blood could appear black.

- Abyss, can't see the wood for the trees...

Zombrey, on Mar 30 2009, 11:20 PM, said:

My understanding is what makes the Teblor's wood 'bloodwood' was the application of bloodoil which I believe I recall Karsa mentioning that it has to be found/gathered.

I guess I might just be equating "Blood-oil" with otataral and am thus confusing the issue because of this belief.


Edit: Just an FYI.... this might make NO SENSE whatsoever. I'm fairly... confused at this point. And by confused I mean drunk out of my mind, and for that I apologize.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 31 March 2009 - 08:41 AM

[beru]

abyss is wrong... (yes lord i will wip myself after no problem) but bloodwood is but wood with bloodoil smeard over it..
and bloodoil is but o-dust that is mixed with water or somesuch to make oil (with the colur of blood)
and the edur did indeed think that the blackwood to be hungry for blood (udianas says this when he tells about the life of a slave) but this is proably not enything to do with bloodwood (they lack teh o-dust... proof: even tho magic resistant it is resistant to elder magic (letheri) and not only normal warrens)


hope for few typos here..

[Aptorian]

It's not completely unlikely that there are ottataral minirals in the soil and the tree's have been absorbing it, this giving the tree's special properties. If ottataral can affect humans it can affect a tree.

I wonder what happens if you put an ottataral spike in a tree? Will you come back a year later and be eaten by it?

[beru]

there might be a bit of otattaral in the trees but the teblor still need to put more in it before it becomes true bloodwood... but its described as light wich might be atributed to some mutation from exposure to o-dust

[Malaclypse]

Aptorian, on Mar 31 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

Wasn't there mention of the Edur pouring blood on their tree's in RG? Don't know how this related though.

I dunno, Apt. Are you stating that this is true or are you asking? Searching for something like this is very difficult, but if you have a quote which supports your suggestion, by all means find it yourself. In any case, I'm personally certain that even if there were some passage along the lines you suggest that it would be totally unrelated to bloodwood so I'm not searching for it.

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 31 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

Hetan, on Mar 31 2009, 04:29 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 31 2009, 09:18 AM, said:

Thanks for the quotes, Hetan.

So, I guess the "interest" in Blackwood in Midnight Tides is necessary because it was the Edur fleets that were really the "scourge" of Wu from MT to TBH.

Is the newly found "Blood oil" something to do with the Letherii Empire, or is a random encounter?

newly found? in any case, blood-oil is unknown to the Letherii and the Edur as far as we know. The conversation between Phyrlis and Cynnigig in HoC indicates that the Toblakai of old used blood-oil as well, which is the only way they can explain the vast herd of Jhag horses that come in answer to the call on Karsa's behalf - so, it appears to be a Toblakai secret. We certainly don't hear of anybody else using it, although it does affect humans in its 'mad hungry lust' application and we saw what advantages Rallick Nom acquired by rubbing the dust in his skin and of course, the Adjuncts.

I meant "Newly found" in a Letherii sort of way:

Abyss, on Mar 30 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

....

Bloodwood is a tree that grows in Teblor territory and seems to have similar properties as blackwood, with a different colour.

Bloodwood seems to have a link to 'bloodoil' which is in turn linked to Otataral. Bloodwood can hold an edge and the Teblor use it for swords. It can also 'heal' nicks and dents. Blackwood doesn't seem to have these same properties. Trull's spear haft in MT is made of blackwood but Edur armour and swords are forged metal and hardened skin, not wood.

It's entirely possible they are the same basic species which has adapted differently in different places. A dark enough shade of red/blood could appear black.

- Abyss, can't see the wood for the trees...

Zombrey, on Mar 30 2009, 11:20 PM, said:

My understanding is what makes the Teblor's wood 'bloodwood' was the application of bloodoil which I believe I recall Karsa mentioning that it has to be found/gathered.

I guess I might just be equating "Blood-oil" with otataral and am thus confusing the issue because of this belief.


Edit: Just an FYI.... this might make NO SENSE whatsoever. I'm fairly... confused at this point. And by confused I mean drunk out of my mind, and for that I apologize.

right, to sum up...blood-oil is made from otataral, which is present in the Teblor homeland. Bloodwood has no necessary link to blood-oil. The Teblor, and the Toblakai before them, presumably call the oil they distill from otataral 'blood-oil' because it was found to improve the natural qualities of bloodwood. They are not related in nature. The Letherii have been exposed to bloodwood through the Edur in RG, but not blood-oil. Blood-oil is never mentioned in MT or RG. For all we know, the Edur have forgotten about blood-oil, as they have apparently forgotten about munitions (they taught the Moranth about them originally ). You should be equating blood-oil with otataral because they, unlike the other two items being discussed here, are related in that blood-oil is made from otataral. I hope that is clear now.

Bloodwood and Blackwood are two different species of tree. In RG, bloodwood is used as an ornamental wood among the Edur. I doubt the Letherii notice or care, but the implication is that bloodwood has been historically held in high esteem among the Edur so making bowls out of it is disgustingly decadent to the more traditional-minded Edur, although Bruthen Trana uses a highly-decorated bloodwood sceptre as the symbol of his office. This is a bit strange as it is never mentioned in MT at all but it's not a big deal.

Bloodwood is a 'normal' wood, just very hard and relatively light, while blackwood retains magical qualities after harvesting. Bloodwood is sacred to the Teblor and Blackwood is sacred to the Edur. the mention of 'black bloodwood' is self-explanatory, ie., if it were normally black they would have just said bloodwood, so it's an exceptionally dark piece of bloodwood, not another name for blackwood.

Clear as mud?

[beru]

do the edur have bloodwood?

[Malaclypse]

ffs, wtf am I going to the trouble of explaining things when you people can't be bothered to read? *gives up*

[beru]

Malaclypse, on Mar 31 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

<snip>

right, to sum up...blood-oil is made from otataral, which is present in the Teblor homeland. Bloodwood has no necessary link to blood-oil. The Teblor, and the Toblakai before them, presumably call the oil they distill from otataral 'blood-oil' because it was found to improve the natural qualities of bloodwood. They are not related in nature. The Letherii have been exposed to bloodwood through the Edur in RG, but not blood-oil. Blood-oil is never mentioned in MT or RG. For all we know, the Edur have forgotten about blood-oil, as they have apparently forgotten about munitions (they taught the Moranth about them originally ). You should be equating blood-oil with otataral because they, unlike the other two items being discussed here, are related in that blood-oil is made from otataral. I hope that is clear now.

Bloodwood and Blackwood are two different species of tree. In RG, bloodwood is used as an ornamental wood among the Edur. I doubt the Letherii notice or care, but the implication is that bloodwood has been historically held in high esteem among the Edur so making bowls out of it is disgustingly decadent to the more traditional-minded Edur, although Bruthen Trana uses a highly-decorated bloodwood sceptre as the symbol of his office. This is a bit strange as it is never mentioned in MT at all but it's not a big deal.

Bloodwood is a 'normal' wood, just very hard and relatively light, while blackwood retains magical qualities after harvesting. Bloodwood is sacred to the Teblor and Blackwood is sacred to the Edur. the mention of 'black bloodwood' is self-explanatory, ie., if it were normally black they would have just said bloodwood, so it's an exceptionally dark piece of bloodwood, not another name for blackwood.

Clear as mud?

bold is suposed to say blackwood right?