[foolio]

this might not be very important but something got me thinking about this the other day; does the crippled god know that he was basically ripped out of his world and brought to this painful existence indirectly because of Kallor? Would this make him dislike Kallor, feel sympathetic towards him, or indifferent. Oh, the irony of giving someone a possition in your house that you were brought to this realm to destroy.

This post has been edited by foolio: 26 February 2009 - 04:40 PM

[blackzoid]

foolio, on Feb 26 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

this might not be very important but something got me thinking about this the other day; does the crippled god know that he was basically ripped out of his world and brought to this painful existence indirectly because of Kallor? Would this make him dislike Kallor, feel sympathetic towards him, or indifferent. Oh, the irony of giving someone a possition in your house that you were brought to this realm to destroy.

He's a God, I'm sure he is aware of that fact. Maybe the position of King can allow the CG to inflict maximum pain on whoever sits as the King of Chains.
Although the Crippled God hasn't given Kallor the position he wanted. Skinner got it instead.
And Kallor upto TTH doesn't seem to care too much about the Crippled God anymore anyway.

[L'oric]

I do not remember if it has been mentioned that the Crippled God actually knows that Kallor was the reason he was brought down. I do not think it would matter much to him though. He seems to be one that uses what he has to no matter what that is. There is no level he would stoop to or rise to IMO.

Kallor is a tool and he is to be used and used until he is ground into dust. The best thing about Kallor though is that he seems to be immune to that type of grinding. Sort of a twist on the age old question of Immovable force/irresistable object except now its the unending grinder vs the ultimate survivor.

I wonder if Dassem would have ended up killing Kallor whom I would love to see redeemed, but unlikely considering the way series characters hardly ever experience a darth vader moment. I can't think of one at all actually.

Sincerely

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Pannion maybe?

As for the thread subject I think the CG knows but doesn't care. Heck he could probaly thank Kallor, seeing how much he revels on pain

[L'oric]

Bauchelain the Evil, on Feb 26 2009, 10:02 AM, said:

Pannion maybe?

As for the thread subject I think the CG knows but doesn't care. Heck he could probaly thank Kallor, seeing how much he revels on pain

Do you think he revels in pain because of what has happened to him? I do. For some reason I always thought of him as a more benevolent god (nowhere to go but right?) before the whole falling and chaining. Kallor is cursed to never gain a throne so he had to have known this one would slip through his fingers as well....at least subconciously.

Reaver seems like a good position for him...too bad other Attendants in houses dont get saved more often...ie baudin...

Good catch on the Pannion btw.

[foolio]

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Reaver seems like a good position for him...too bad other Attendants in houses dont get saved more often...ie baudin...

Yeah too bad Shadow Throne didnt help out Trull...

It seems to me the Crippled god is tons more powerful than all the other gods. Maybe he is just more involved. We see the queen of dreams rescue Leoman but not in the spur of the moment type of fashion that the crippled god rescues his people time and time again. Kallor twice while getting skewered and Skinner when he is in deep dookie.
I am with Loric, I dont get the impression that he was necessarily always an entity that revels in pain, just since he was brought down to his horrible existence in WU has this been the case. Also I dont assume that even if he knew this would be reason for him to want vengeance on Kallor. Mayeb he would want vengeance on the people who Kallor ruled and feel a sympathetic link to Kallor. Maybe , maybe not.

As for other Characters that have been redeemed, how about Monk Rat. He is a very minor character but before Spindle showed up, I think he was taking part in raping and pillaging.

[Abyss]

foolio, on Feb 26 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

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Reaver seems like a good position for him...too bad other Attendants in houses dont get saved more often...ie baudin...

Yeah too bad Shadow Throne didnt help out Trull...

Trull wasn't Shadowthrone's Knight. The Warren itself (Meanas or KE somehow, take your pick) or the House, recruited him.

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It seems to me the Crippled god is tons more powerful than all the other gods. ...

It's been suggested in the books - MoI and TB, iirc - that the reason for the Chaining is that if he ever got free he could destroy the world.

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... Mayeb he would want vengeance on the people who Kallor ruled and feel a sympathetic link to Kallor. Maybe , maybe not.

My $0.02 is that the CG is totally aware of who and what Kallor is and his role in the Fall. But as to whether CG feels vengeful on Kallor... i don't think so. I think he'll cheefully use Kallor the way he uses all his other pawns and sacrifice him just as happily, but i don't think it's Kallor whom he blames.

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As for other Characters that have been redeemed, how about Monk Rat. He is a very minor character but before Spindle showed up, I think he was taking part in raping and pillaging.

SE was fairly specific that Monkrat helped the Urdomen, but never actually did the rape and pillage thing himself.

As for redeemed characters, Karsa comes to mind. Fear, in an odd way. Raest, sort of. Felisin. Laseen.

- Abyss, iredeemable.

[foolio]

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SE was fairly specific that Monkrat helped the Urdomen, but never actually did the rape and pillage thing himself.

I could be wrong but I thought when they forcefully gave the preistess of the redeemer the Kelyk, the leader offers to give her to Monk Rat and alludes to him liking young girls like her. Thats not damning evidence or anything just gave me an impression he was bad as well.

[muco]

Kallor is a powerful tool that CG can use for his own means. And Kallor realises that and is probbaly using CG the same way. I think what CG can do or can not do is pretty limited by what is happening to him. I mean..let us say if CG wanted to kill Kallor, how exactly is he going to do it?

I think Kallor is beyond redemption.

Kallor chose to kill all those millions of people, he chose to do all the evil deeds he did in his life, clearly knowing what he did. Unlike few characters whose upbringing blurred the concept of right and worng, Kallor can not excuse what he did.

Yes..he is awsome but he is also a bas**rd. For Kallor, its all about Kallor.

[HoosierDaddy]

Abyss, on Feb 26 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

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It seems to me the Crippled god is tons more powerful than all the other gods. ...

It's been suggested in the books - MoI and TB, iirc - that the reason for the Chaining is that if he ever got free he could destroy the world.


- Abyss, iredeemable.

Is there a possibility this is due to his being "outside of the system" prior to his House of Chains? We know he now has to "play by the rules."

Also, on the rescuing thing, Skinner was not a member prior to rescue. Also, both "other" rescues seem to take place where the Crippled God has lots of influence: the Domin & Jacaruku. That could play a part in it as well.

Also, as to his "reveling" in pain. The god reflects his worshipers. TBH, RG, and TtH are very much highlighters of that fact.

[James Hetfield]

I will put in my opinion as well.

Logically, the CG is unable to directly blame Kallor for his Fall. The mages that set the trap that lured the CG to WU's realm were acting completely independently. The mages were grasping for anything that would give them enough power to fight the tyranny of Kallor. My opinion is that they were going to try and control whoever was lured into their trap or they would be able to convince that person aid them in their fight.

If the CG blamed Kallor for his Fall it would be like blaming Bush for the deaths that occured during the 9/11 attack. Was there a possibility that it could have been prevented if more information was obtained? Sure. But he is not directly to blame for the deaths.

Sorry to say the B word but that is the best analogy that came to mind.

[foolio]

Abyss said

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Trull wasn't Shadowthrone's Knight. The Warren itself (Meanas or KE somehow, take your pick) or the House, recruited him.

could you elaborate? So shadowthrone has "members" of his house he has no control over selecting? I am not disagreeing, I just didint realize it worked like that...Do we see it happening to other houses?

[Aptorian]

Brys becomes the Mortal Sword/Champion... Knight?... of Emurhlan.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

It does seem ironic...in fact, that's a good point. It was Kallor's mages, that called the CG down, but still. Why wouldn't he harbor at least a small grudge?

Maybe he doesn't care.
Maybe he's forgotten.
Maybe he doesn't blame Kallor.
Maybe he's gone insane over that part.