Malazan Empire: The tyrant will not be Kallor - Malazan Empire

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The tyrant will not be Kallor Yes, I went there! Rate Topic: -----

#21 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 08:16 PM

Arhh... my memory is crap!
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#22 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 08:37 PM

I think it is time for some gloating then ! Typical københavnere to forget everything and think they know everything, jyder > københavnere!!!

Also, I cannot translate those words to english :harhar: copenhageners?

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I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#23 User is offline   Ain't_It_Just_ 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:05 AM

Could Togg and Fanderay be elemental forces?
Suck it Errant!


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QUOTE (KeithF @ Jun 30 2009, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the most powerful force on Wu is a bunch of messed-up Malazans with Moranth munitions.


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#24 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:27 AM

If not elemental forces, then something similar at least, since they are older than even the elder gods.

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I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#25 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:56 AM

Why do you need to jump to the conclusion that the wolves are elemental forces just because they are older than the EGs?

It is very possible that Wu had existed for eons before the EGs came out of chaos.
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#26 User is offline   Benji 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:17 PM

I've always put Togg, Fanderay, Fener and all that at a similar status to Treach: First Heroes.
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#27 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:32 PM

No. It is said that Togg and Fanderay are much older than Treach who was a First Hero of the First Empire. And if they're older than an EG it is safe to think that they're not just common First Hero but something wilder,older and more powerful
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#28 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 06:11 PM

beast gods
the first deities worshipped by humans and their ancestors. ganath has a quote, or perhaps it was noto boil, talking about this
togg, fanderay, d'rek, that ancient bear that follows samar dev in TtH. i think they are something like the natural gods of Wu
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#29 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 08:03 PM

View PostSinisdar Toste, on Feb 8 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

beast gods
the first deities worshipped by humans and their ancestors. ganath has a quote, or perhaps it was noto boil, talking about this
togg, fanderay, d'rek, that ancient bear that follows samar dev in TtH. i think they are something like the natural gods of Wu


Dunno 'bout D'rek, (s)he seems to act more sentiently and not so much like an ascended beast. Anyhoo its not so much that T&F were worshipped, but they ascended from the primitive appreactions of the animals running in step with the Eres or their predecessors. Further from RG/TtH, T&F, being sort of the 'ideal' or first or pure wolves (with wolves as a race in turn being the first to run in step with Eres/etc), ascended as the Alpha wolves.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#30 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 08:13 PM

View PostD'rek, on Feb 7 2009, 04:45 AM, said:

FYI, the whole Torruld and Seguleh thing, yeah they make Shield Anvil and were probably the term(s) for the Tyrant's forces, the Seguleh his warriors and the T'orruld [Cabal] his mages. Evidently each has evolved to something slightly different since, neh?


I think Dessim already has the whole bloody FE reinforced by freaking Deragoth, Nameless Ones and all sorts of tribal warrior castes working with him back in 7C. If he also had some other empire in Genebackis focused on Darujhistan with the Seguleh and a bunch of undying mages, that would just be pitiful of him.

If it were Kallor, comes the question of what the hell happened to this nation he ruled as Tyrant? It sure doesn't seem to have been wasted by enemies, but Kallor doesn't just get up and leave his nations in peace while he goes gallavanting either, he would've destroyed it by his own hand or something. Plus the folks talking about the fateful return and all that would be ass-groaningly bad if "oh look, the Tyrant was a few miles away half a decade ago in MoI but nobody noticed then"


Frankly the whole bit is dumb if it isn't very strongly related to Raest, because how exactly does a rumour about Tyrant A (not Raest) result in a city being founded by people hunting (unsuccessfully) for the crypt of completely-unrelated-Tyrant B (Raest), whom nobody had ever heard of...? They apparently dug at the exact right spot to find Raest's crypt (if it weren't in an OP warren). How did they get so precise in their digging if they were digging for a completely different Tyrant's tomb in a completely different location?!




The Rumour was about Raest's barrow.
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#31 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 08:17 PM

View Postblackzoid, on Feb 8 2009, 03:13 PM, said:

The Rumour was about Raest's barrow.


And how exactly to you explain that such a thing came to pass? I wasn't aware T'lan Imass got drunk in taverns in Bastion with humans telling tall tales about hidden treasures in the Rhivi plains to the north...

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#32 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:42 PM

View PostD'rek, on Feb 8 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

View PostSinisdar Toste, on Feb 8 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

beast gods
the first deities worshipped by humans and their ancestors. ganath has a quote, or perhaps it was noto boil, talking about this
togg, fanderay, d'rek, that ancient bear that follows samar dev in TtH. i think they are something like the natural gods of Wu


Dunno 'bout D'rek, (s)he seems to act more sentiently and not so much like an ascended beast. Anyhoo its not so much that T&F were worshipped, but they ascended from the primitive appreactions of the animals running in step with the Eres or their predecessors. Further from RG/TtH, T&F, being sort of the 'ideal' or first or pure wolves (with wolves as a race in turn being the first to run in step with Eres/etc), ascended as the Alpha wolves.


This sounds pretty accurate from the top of my memory. And makes sense really. So they are probably not elemental forces, but some other kind of ancient, powerful entities.

I am wondering if we will see Togg pursue vengeance towards kallor.

Quote

I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#33 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:45 PM

Hasn't really been any inklings in that direction, though, right? I reckon SE's forgotten he even wrote in that little bit...

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#34 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 10:26 AM

View PostD'rek, on Feb 8 2009, 08:17 PM, said:

View Postblackzoid, on Feb 8 2009, 03:13 PM, said:

The Rumour was about Raest's barrow.


And how exactly to you explain that such a thing came to pass? I wasn't aware T'lan Imass got drunk in taverns in Bastion with humans telling tall tales about hidden treasures in the Rhivi plains to the north...


The humans didn't know the rumour was about a specific Jaguht Tyrant, just that a powerful being's barrow was somewhere in the hills.
That was Tyrant B (according to your terminology).

Tyrant A (and his/her successors) built Despot’s Barbican and once ruled Darujhistan. Its possible that one of them did search for the Jaghut's Barrow as well.

How could the Rumour be about Tyrant A, when they are actively building/ruling Darujhistan at the same time. Why would the searchers have to dug up holes in the hills looking for a barrow, if the person they are looking for isn't even dead?
Its not really a rumour if the person in question is in plain view. Is it?
The Rumour is NOT about the Tyrant King who ruled Darujhistan.



"Darujhistan was born on a rumor. Among the indigenous Gadrobi hill tribes survived the legend that a Jaghut's barrow lay somewhere in the hills. Now, the Jaghut were possessors of great magic, creaters of secret Warrens and items of power. Over time the Gadrobi legend made its way beyond the hills, into the Genebackan north and the Catlin south, to kingdoms since crumbled to dust in the east and west. In any case, searchers came to the hills, at first a trickle then hordes - entire tribes led by power-hungry shamans and warlocks. Every hillside was laced with trenches and bore-holes. From the camps and shantytowns, from thousands of treasure-seekers arriving each spring, a city was born." -Mammot

GotM, US HC, p.263


Tyrant Kings

The Tyrant Kings: the ancient rulers of Darujhistan

GotM, glossary


"'The history of Darujhistan,’ he said. ‘I am just beginning the fifth volume, which opens with the reign of Ektalm, second to last of the Tyrant Kings...Usurper of Letastte and succeeded by his daughter, Sandenay, who brought on the Rising Time and with it the end of the age of tyrants."

GotM, UK TPB, p.271


Am I the only one who actually uses the wiki to CHECK facts? Come on people, its easy!


EDIT: Oh and from the wiki, we can get a date for Darujhistan's founding. Its only 3 thousand years old, so the first Tyrant King can't be Dessimbelackis. Unless he came back in a new body or something.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 09 February 2009 - 10:34 AM

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#35 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 02:28 PM

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Hasn't really been any inklings in that direction, though, right? I reckon SE's forgotten he even wrote in that little bit...


Actually Gothos told Kallor that a wolf(Togg) was angered with him in TtH. So it doesn't seem that SE has forgotten.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 09 February 2009 - 04:29 PM

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#36 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 04:27 PM

Good point Bauchelain, I forgot about that part. Let is be a lesson to us, never underestimate the powers of SE!

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I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#37 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:37 PM

The 3000 years reference about Darujistan is from GotM right? If that's the case we can't really trust the date because Erikson was using "1000" as "very old" in the first book but after it became a series, we're talking half a million years of history at least.
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#38 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:41 PM

View PostAptorian, on Feb 9 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

The 3000 years reference about Darujistan is from GotM right? If that's the case we can't really trust the date because Erikson was using "1000" as "very old" in the first book but after it became a series, we're talking half a million years of history at least.


The Reference is from GOTM.

But in that book, when Pran Chole and Krul and Kruppe meet in Kruppe's dream, Krul mentions that Pran Chole will meet Silverfox in about 300,000 years time. So SE was thinking in terms of ten's of thousands of years, even in GOTM.
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#39 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:52 PM

Yeah but then he was speaking of the Imass whom he always imagined as being what Humans evolved from. Being the archaeologist that he is, he wasn't going to say that the Imass only took ten thousand years (or something like that) to evolve into humans.

On the other hand he amongst other things claimed the shadow realm had been dormant for a thousand years or so... hmm, on the other hand this might actually be true, but from what we see it sounds like it should have been more.
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#40 User is offline   Slum 

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 03:57 AM

OK, I never ever post in here b/c all my theories are usually wrong. And...I'm not reading any of this thread other than the first post.

My take was that the tyrant is a Jaghut on whose bones Darujhistan was built. Hence the T'lan Imass Harllo encountered in the mines. He was on a mission to end that Jaghut.

Not Kallor, for christ's sake. It makes more sense for it to be a long-slumbering Jaghut tyrant, which would explain why we were introduced to Raest in GotM. This guy's just a bit more bad-ass than Raest...a Karsa killer.

Again, I apologize for entering the book forum with my paltry knowledge. If this idea has already been presented/discarded, I beg pardon. It's what I thought while reading.
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