[Severian]

1) Tool is the first sword of the First empire.. Dassem is also first sword. So is Dassem successor of Tool ? When dassem officialy at position of first sword there were also tool so were there 2 first swords?
2) IF Mok beats Tool then who will be the first sword of empire? Mok? dont think so..

[End of Disc One]

Tool is the First Sword of the T'lan Imass. Dassem was the First Sword of the Malazan Empire. The title of First Sword doesn't fall to the single best swordsman in the world; it is given to an individual by his/her empire to represent a champion. So Dassem is not Tool's successor. Mok couldn't be the First Sword of the T'lan Imass or the Malazan Empire since he belongs to neither.

[Severian]

So who is First Sword of Malaz Empire after Dassem?

Also Tool is usually titled First Sword of First empire, if this "first empire" is Empire of Imass there isnt any first empire anymore why Tool want to challenge Mok? there isnt much sense at fighting for the title which is no longler valid ..

and He says first sw of empire must be unequalled.. I dont see the point of that logic.. If he is best of empire than he is first sword but why must he better than everyone in the world, Mok is not imass but Tool challenges him??

For example if Mok beats Tool will tool say"ok im done find yourself another first sword" and go home..?

[bebbe]

The title first sword of the malazan empire is left vacant for some time, you will find out in later books who gets the title.

Mok and Tool does not fight for the title of first sword, Mok fight because of the seguleh heirarchy and Tool because of a notion that the first sword to the Tlan Imass should have no equal.

[Sindriss]

Excellent answered, couldn't have done it any better myself.

[L'oric]

Only one thing to add I think here is that Dassem is the First Sword Reborn as well as First sword of the Malazan Empire.

The first Human Empire had a First Sword its emperor probably melded himself to the hounds of darkness and the T'lan Imass had a hand in ending the empire when it was going crazy with the soletaken ritual.

At least thats my take. Somewhere around there is Icarium destroying one of the cities I think.

I do not know if Kallors empire predates or came after the first human empire. It was on another continent though.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[T'renn]

Eventually

Spoiler

Korbolo Dom

become High Fist and First Sword, but that is more to a certain snakes games

It can also be read that

Spoiler

Grub

will become First Sword in the so called "Late Empire period" but I have no idea when that will be because the fragment wasn't dated, it's named: Lives of the three (Dassem

Spoiler

,Dom and Grubb

probably

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Didn't the Lives of the Three refer to

Spoiler

Nil, Nether and Grub

?

[Aptorian]

Nobody knowes who the three are supposed to be, but a little less spoiler debate in the MoI forum please.

[D'rek]

L'oric, on Jan 17 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Only one thing to add I think here is that Dassem is the First Sword Reborn as well as First sword of the Malazan Empire.

The first Human Empire had a First Sword its emperor probably melded himself to the hounds of darkness and the T'lan Imass had a hand in ending the empire when it was going crazy with the soletaken ritual.

At least thats my take. Somewhere around there is Icarium destroying one of the cities I think.

I do not know if Kallors empire predates or came after the first human empire. It was on another continent though.

Sincerely,
L'oric

I don't recall any mention of the human FE having a First Sword. Got a quote or passage?

Also note, Dassem has no connection to Dessembelackis -> Q&A with MalazanEmpire #1
Or if you don't wanna read that (could have some spoilers), basically SE said Dessimbelackis had no connection to Dassem Ultor.

[Aptorian]

Indeed, Dessimbelackis was an emperor in... uhm, the early age?... of the first human empire.

Maybe the mix up is the first heroes, treach, ryllandaras, etc.

[L'oric]

D'rek, on Jan 18 2009, 12:51 PM, said:

[
I don't recall any mention of the human FE having a First Sword. Got a quote or passage?

Also note, Dassem has no connection to Dessembelackis -> Q&A with MalazanEmpire #1
Or if you don't wanna read that (could have some spoilers), basically SE said Dessimbelackis had no connection to Dassem Ultor.

Well he is the First Sword Reborn...is there another human empire between Dessembelackis (who he has no connection to) and the Malazan Empire that we know of...Kallor's? He can not be Tool reborn. He needs to be reborn from someone. Maybe it is a GotMism.

Thank you for the clarification that Dassem is not connected to Dessembelackis. I failed to state that, but I also did not pose any connection between the two.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Well technically speaking, that can't be a GotMism, cause the qoute came from MoI

[D'rek]

I think it's just a turn-of-phrase. They say he's the FS reborn because there hadn't been a FS of any empire in a long time and they dug up this crazy word from old empires for their champion. I don't think it's literally 'reborn'. At least that's my way of justifying it...

[Severian]

OK, so Tool lose to Mok and resigned from first sword position then what? So there will be no first sword unless someone comes up skillful enough to kill seguleh first and other swordsmen world(rake, dassem..)

Also Tool said at end of memories of ice "mok is third there is 2nd and first are his masters, our time is over.." is that means , there is no need of a first sword of tlan imass if stronger beings exist in the world?

[Aptorian]

Yeah, I think he was implying that mankind has now surpassed the peak of Imass glory.