[Gnaw]

Wild conjecture. Backed up by patterns (as far back as Pompeii) which I will not list to see if anyone else sees them:

Missy and whatever environment she inhabits is a construct of the Doctor. "I've lived for over two thousand years and not all of them were good. I've made many mistakes, it's time I did something about that."

[Tiste Simeon]

Liked that one too, Danny really developed as a character and his interactions with both Clara and the Doctor were excellent. I really love it when someone knew is introduced to the Doctor and the TARDIS, I dunno whuy I just do. I like that Danny knows about the Doctor now and I am hoping he gets to go to space at some point. This series is definitely getting stronger. The only real beef I have was that the bad robot thing was pretty lame and a bit too much a dalek clone.

Not sure why Missy was having a bad day (or whatever the line was with the PCSO at the end) but now normal humans are able to get to her "promised land" as well as robots... interesting!

QT, I'm not so bothered about the lack of compassion yet as I think he is learning (and Clara, as was pointed out, is his teacher!) It is a subtle but gradual arc.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I liked the last one although I wasn't struck on all of the Danny development. There was obviously going to be tension between him and The Doctor once they met but some of it felt very forced, and I actually thought Danny came across with a slightly manipulative bent to him which I didn't like. It will be interesting to see how it progresses though.

Personally, this series has made me excited about Doctor Who for the first time since before Davies stopped running it (with the sole exception of The Day of the Doctor). Capaldi is wonderful for me - I wanted a grumpier, darker Doctor - and I love all the little lines about not noticing Clara's appearance and what have you.

Listen is one of the best DW episodes for years for me!

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 02 October 2014 - 04:59 AM

[Coco with marshmallows]

Another good episode I think.

Liked the moral quandary that was given to them.

For me, this season is being consistently good.

[Inane Babble]

I had wished Clara had permanently left today, seemed like a good opportunity to do so, and would have been wonderful seeing the Doctor having to deal with having a companion furiously refusing him because of the stuff he gets up to. Perhaps they are giving Pink the opportunity to bring Clara and the Doctor together and in doing so change the Doctors opinion on the military for some time. There is a reason for the doctors friction with the military in the series I think, and wouldn't want the Who universe to lose that.

[polishgenius]

I liked the moral quandary, the Doctor/Clara confrontation, and the fact that he's fucked up while seemingly trying to be good.

I disliked the science (seriously, it takes some doing to break my suspension of disbelief on Doctor Who but the facehugger spiders turning out to be single-cell organisms, the moon putting on mass from nowhere- that's not how an egg growing works!, the Endor-like lack of destruction from bits of the old Moon, the immediate laying of an identical Moon...), the fact that Clara made the decision then took it back and somehow this is a good thing and nothing is made of how pointless it was to ask humanity in the first place, a company having a mining operation on the moon but there being no backup craft anywhere on Earth when they got into trouble (how were they planning to get this stuff back?)...


Overall, it falls just slightly on the bad side but in a really weird way where very good and totally awful combine to make something meh.

[QuickTidal]

Haven't watched yet, but the running concensus I've heard is that the episode would not exist if the Doctor hadn't decided to meddle. Like if Tennant or Smith were involved, none of it would have happened as it did because Capaldi is such a cold dick of a Doctor.

They have GOT to be going somewhere with him being this way. It can't last forever. I have trouble watching Doctor Who when the Doctor is so cold. It's hard to get on his side.

I'm holding out hope this is all on purpose.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 05 October 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

They have GOT to be going somewhere with him being this way. It can't last forever. I have trouble watching Doctor Who when the Doctor is so cold. It's hard to get on his side.

I'm holding out hope this is all on purpose.

This episode makes clear that it's definitely going somewhere.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 05 October 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 October 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

They have GOT to be going somewhere with him being this way. It can't last forever. I have trouble watching Doctor Who when the Doctor is so cold. It's hard to get on his side.

I'm holding out hope this is all on purpose.

This episode makes clear that it's definitely going somewhere.

Yeah, just watched. Clara's reprimand at the end was key to that. I'm a bit put off we have to go through this to be honest. I get kind of WHY, but I still don't like it because every time I stick Ten or Eleven in these situations, they always sort them out without the patronizing asshole demeanor.

[Gnaw]

I'm going to risk the outrage and wrath:

The only two parts of this ridiculously plotted inanity that were any good were Hermione Norris and the Doctor. She was extremely good. He was spectacular.


"The Earth isn't my home, the moon's not my moon...You don't need a time lord. Kill it. Or let it live, I can't make this decision for you."

There is a straight line from that little speech directly back to Episode one's "I'm the Doctor. I've lived over two thousand years and not all of them were good. I've made many mistakes. And it's about time I did something about that."

QT is correct; 10 or 11 would never have let this happen. They were happy to keep the training wheels on the humans. Oh, they lectured and spit and sputtered about humanity's stupidity but in the end they always saved the day. Compare this episode with the Day of the Doctor's "for the next two hours nobody in this room will remember whether they're human or not." You might even they were being patronizing.

"That was you. My friend, making me scared, making me feel like a bloody idiot....don't you ever tell me to take the stabilizers off my bike and don't you dare lump me in with the rest of the little humans..."

Those first few feet of no training wheels are exactly that: a loved one making you scared and feel like a bloody idiot.

[QuickTidal]

Gnaw, on 06 October 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

QT is correct; 10 or 11 would never have let this happen. They were happy to keep the training wheels on the humans. Oh, they lectured and spit and sputtered about humanity's stupidity but in the end they always saved the day. Compare this episode with the Day of the Doctor's "for the next two hours nobody in this room will remember whether they're human or not." You might even they were being patronizing.

"That was you. My friend, making me scared, making me feel like a bloody idiot....don't you ever tell me to take the stabilizers off my bike and don't you dare lump me in with the rest of the little humans..."

Those first few feet of no training wheels are exactly that: a loved one making you scared and feel like a bloody idiot.

I'm glad it/he won't stay this way. The only reason to keep blatantly pointing these facts out in the narrative/scripts on every ep (including Clara yelling at him) is to change him into someone more like Ten or Eleven, but with less swoony, swoony down the road. I have a feeling it will happen by end of this season (as I'm not sure fans can stomach more than one season of Angry-as-shit alien who is bothered by human stupidity).

My wife still doens't like Capaldi much. She laughs at some of his lines, but moreover she finds him to be too much of a jerk.

And I'm constantly reminded by this speech by Ten to Five when he meets him in TIME CRASH:

"You know, I love being you. Back when I first started at the very beginning, I was always trying to be old and grumpy and important like you do when you're young, and then I was you. And I was all dashing about and playing cricket and my voice going all squeaky when I shout and I still do that! The voice thing, I got that from you!"

The bolded bit. Twelve is technically on a whole new set of regenerations, and so he'll bear more resemblance to the 1st Doctor than the Eleventh in his attitude, and the 1st Doctor WAS kind of cold to humans and grumpy...so we have Clara and Co. helping him along to be more like the 2nd Doctor, who starts whizzing about being adventurey and amazing.

Just my two cents.

[Tiste Simeon]

I really like GrumpyDoc. The last 2, while different, were both "Wow, I love humanity!" and always willing to step in and save everyone. The fact that Capaldi is more unpredictable and just doesn't get humans is pretty fun. He will change (he has to after the verbal lashing he got!) but I'm enjoying something a bit different.

[QuickTidal]

It's funny, but I have been re-watching Matt Smith's era (on Series 6), and I can't believe I never noticed that Eleven says a lot of the same sort of callous stuff that Twelve does, but it almost always comes off as jesting with a light air to it that makes it seem MUCH less obnoxious than when Twelve says the same lines.

KILL THE MOON, for example, was apparently written for Matt Smith for Series 7...but got sidelined till Series 8, becoming a Twelve episode. So I tried to picture Smith saying the lines, and I think it would have come across differently. I also wonder if Clara could have ever been as mad at Eleven as she was with Twelve at the end.

[QuickTidal]

3rd Doctor with modern Murray gold score is oddly amazing and works!

http://vimeo.com/107552442

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Just watched Listen, and it was one of the best episodes I've seen in a long while. Right up there with Blink imo.

[QuickTidal]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 October 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

gust watched Listen, and it was one of the best episodes I've seen in a long while. Right up there with Blink imo.

Yep, totally agree.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

It's amusing how the way the Doctor (Moffat, really) chose to deal with the Listeners (?) was the exact opposite of how you deal with the Angels. Specifically, you don't look at the Listeners, while you must look at the Angels.

EDIT: Reading through previous posts and the consensus seems to be that the Listeners don't exist and are instead just primal, imaginary fears. That still doesn't explain the figure in Rupert's room - no way that was another kid. But it was definitely left ambiguous intentionally.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 10 October 2014 - 06:19 PM

[QuickTidal]

I think OUR audience POV is the same as those who are in fear of it...thus we are unreliable narrators too (or at least our eyes are) and cauliflower be trusted. In that vein, I'm fully believing it was a kid playing a prank.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 October 2014 - 06:52 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

QuickTidal, on 10 October 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

I think OUR audience POV is the same as those who are in fear of it...thus we are unreliable narrators too (or at least our eyes are) and cauliflower be trusted. In that vein, I'm fully believing it was a kid playing a prank.

Amen, trust in cauliflower.

Watching Kill The Moon now. I don't like Courtney. The actor who is playing her is not very good, and her lines are even worse. Very unchildlike.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 10 October 2014 - 10:57 PM

[QuickTidal]

LOL! I'm trying to figure out what wprd has been replaced with Caulliflower...**CAN-NOT** I think...
But yeah, I agree about Courtney. do not like her at all.

I want Twelve to travel with Strax as his companion. That would be brilliant.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 October 2014 - 11:28 PM