[bubba]

QuickTidal, on 08 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Capaldi's first two eps are not indicative of what makes people love the show and the character...meanwhile Tennant and Smith are.

I have to say that may be true about the reboot fans, but not what I think oldtimers like myself feel.

[QuickTidal]

Blend, on 08 September 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Mezla PigDog, on 08 September 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

I just started re-watching Dr Who properly since the early Christopher Eccleston episodes. I stopped watching mainly because it was on at an inconvenient time on a Saturday when I was usually busy. I caught the occasional episode of the Tennant era but none of the Matt Smith era. I really want to like it as it used to be staple viewing for me and my sister in the 80s but I found the first two episodes of the new series boring. I enjoyed the Robin Hood one, mainly as a farce and because the bickering was funny. I will give it a couple more episodes. Don't you hate it when you really want to like something and can't quite manage it?

Go back and watch Series 2-7 Tennant and Smith. You will come around.

Capaldi's first two eps are not indicative of what makes people love the show and the character...meanwhile Tennant and Smith are.

Gods, really? Eccleston was my favourite of the NuWho Doctors, by a LARGE margin. Tennant was kind of an idiot, and Smith was just wacky. Fun to watch, but there was rarely ever any gravitas to their performances, whereas I really felt Eccleston's whole PTSD thing throughout his whole season.

I think it's fairly okay to say that partially Tennant and mostly Smith are who brought DW fandom to the frenzied global level it is at today. Lots of NuWho-only fans don't care much for Eccelston (my wife, her sister and a few others I've gotten into the show don't like him at all). There is a reason that people cosplay Ten and Eleven and their companions so much out in the world. Classic Who never had that kind of explosion of collective "like". I think amongst polled fans today Tennant and Smith come out WAY ahead of Eccelston with the average viewer. I like Nine's time too, and the whole PTSD thing is a main reason. Tennant and Smith reignited my fanboy-ish love of the show that I had watching their Classic Who predecessors as a kid.

Bubba, on 08 September 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 08 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Capaldi's first two eps are not indicative of what makes people love the show and the character...meanwhile Tennant and Smith are.

I have to say that may be true about the reboot fans, but not what I think oldtimers like myself feel.

And yet I am on the opposite end of that spectrum as an old timer myself (I started with Peter Davison as a kid and watched all the way through the Dark Times (the 90's) and even made a HUGE deal of the 8th Doctor movie on Fox (I made sure I was home with snacks at the ready and VCR set to tape it).

As an old timer I can't get behind Capaldi's Doctor yet and certainly not as easily as I did with Smith and Tennant. Along with Paul McGann, Tennant and Smith make up the trifecta of MY Doctors.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 08 September 2014 - 05:12 PM

[bubba]

It may be a matter of first impressions. John Pertwee was my first doctor. So an older wiser doctor is what is more ingrained for me. I loved Baker, but after that it was down hill untill the reboot. I loved Eccelston, not so much Tennant and Smith.

God I remember the Movie, I also made a huge deal out it.

[QuickTidal]

Bubba, on 08 September 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

It may be a matter of first impressions. John Pertwee was my first doctor. So an older wiser doctor is what is more ingrained for me. I loved Baker, but after that it was down hill untill the reboot. I loved Eccelston, not so much Tennant and Smith.

God I remember the Movie, I also made a huge deal out it.

You know what, if you go back and re-watch the movie it's still awful, but Paul McGann absolutely chews every scene he is in. It's worth owning it on DVD just for him.

[Mezla PigDog]

I think I'm struggling with getting interested in the wider story arcs. I think of Dr Who as monster-of-the-week style viewing. Did they have wider arcs originally? They may have been there but as a child I missed them. I vividly remember being terrified after some of the Sylvester McCoy episodes and if I can't go back to the old fun of it all then I can't get into it. I'm not complaining, it is unfair to project childhood expectations onto something so I should probably keep to my rose tinted memories and walk away from the new stuff. Saying all that, I love Peter Capaldi which is what has drawn me into giving it another go.

Christopher Eccleston comes from the same part of the UK as me. Do people remember that bit where he says "D'you wanna come wi'me" that they used in loads of ads for that series? It's an in-joke at home, hamming up my accent whenever I'm asking Mr PigDog if he wants to go somewhere. It's hilarious, I tell you

/boring story.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 09 September 2014 - 08:26 AM

[QuickTidal]

Classic Who had over-arcing stories for seasons. For example, Jon Pertwee was exiled by the Time Lords to earth and so that's kind of an arc, and Tom Baker has an entire season devoted to finding pieces of the Key To Time with Romana, Colin Baker spends his whole season doing the Trial Of A Time Lord. They were there, but yeah you don't really notice that stuff much as a kid.

[Tiste Simeon]

Mezla PigDog, on 09 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Christopher Eccleston comes from the same part of the UK as me. Do people remember that bit where he says "D'you wanna come wi'me" that they used in loads of ads for that series? It's an in-joke at home, hamming up my accent whenever I'm asking Mr PigDog if he wants to go somewhere. It's hilarious, I tell you

His best line was when Rose asked him why he had a Northern accent and he replied something like "every planet has a North!" Made me giggle!

[Gnaw]

QuickTidal, on 24 August 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 24 August 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

questions/comments/speculation:

Spoiler

• "why this face?" - Pompeii or Torchwood?

Spoiler

Why this face? Yeah, I am going to GUESS it's Fires Of Pompeii, more directly related.

I've been re-watching from the beginning of 9. Just reached the Pompeii episode.

Capaldi is a marble dealer. Given the pictures above of old marble.....

[Coco with marshmallows]

Well.

That was MASSIVELY creepy.

Well done on that episode.

[Mezla PigDog]

I watched it at home on my own. I have put lots of lights on and I'm talking to myself as I potter around. Creeped out big time!

[Coco with marshmallows]

Mezla PigDog, on 13 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

I watched it at home on my own. I have put lots of lights on and I'm talking to myself as I potter around. Creeped out big time!

Out of interest where are you on the liking / not liking now?

[QuickTidal]

BEST. EP. THIS. SEASON. HANDS. DOWN.

I mean wow, that was a knock it out of the park episode, and I fully believe that Clara is tempering the Doctor now, and that he won't always be this surly. That said, he was funnnier and even a bit kinder in this ep and that impressed me.

But the best moment:

Spoiler

"One day, you will come back to this barn, and you will be very scared" call back to the War Doctor, and the mind-blowing fact that Clara seems to hear a convo implying the Doctor is an orphan?...damn that was excellent.

I also like that in the end it was about fear in general and nothing concrete.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 September 2014 - 02:16 AM

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 14 September 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

I didn't understand this epi at all.

Let's see if I can lay out the basics:

Spoiler

1. After meditatiing on the roof of the TARDIS (and very likely calling up old memories), the Doctor begins to putter around the TARDIS and talk to himself, and starts to wonder what if you really aren't talking to yourself? What if there is something you can't see, something in the corner of your eye, that is always with you.

2. Grabs Clara and attempts to prove this by trying to go back in her timeline and find the "dream" where you wake up and you're not alone, and a hand grabs your foot. But she is so preocupied with her mangled date with Danny that she accidentially uses the TARDIS mental circuits to send them back to Danny's past in an orphanage.

3. Not to be cowed the Doctor investigates with child Danny (Rupert) and there does appear to be something in his room on his bed. The Doctor recites a speech about turning fear to a superpower and using it to ones advantage (Twelve's best speech so far!). He is convinced that the thing in the room is a creature of some kind that accompanies us through life and does things when we aren't looking. This is the thing under your bed, and in the corner of your eye.

4. The Doctor, after droppping Clara off for Chance#2 with her date with Danny, goes forward in time to find how childhood Danny (Rupert) is tied to Clara and finds future descendant Orson, who has pioneered human time travel and as a result ended up stranded at the end of the universe on the last planet. The Doctor is convinced that there is something outside the station too, for fear has made Orson believe something nefarious is out there trying to get in. Orson is packing and Clara notices that he has chidlhood Danny's (Rupert's) one toy figure of the soldier without a gun, and he explains it was an heriloom handed down through the family, he hands it to Clara and she says "No, it's a family heirlooom" and Orson says "Yes, it is." and continues to hold it out for her. The implication being that Clara and Danny do end up in a relationship and she is more than likely Orson's great grandmother, or somehing along those lines.

5. Then the reveal happens. As they run from the future world the Doctor is unconscious from trying to see what was trying to get in therough the airlock, so Clara uses the mental circuits again to take them away...but what happens is they travel back into the Doctor's past instead of either of theirs. They end up in a barn-like structure where a child is laying in a bed weeping. As Clara moves towards him she looks around and recognizes the barn, but hears voices and slips under the bed. The voices talk about how he will never be able to go to the academy and become a time lord if he continues to be scared of everything, and sleep in the barn (the implication SEEMS to be that he's an orphan), and that he will have two life otpions, the military or a time lord. They leave and the Doctor goes to get up and Clara reaches out and grabs his foot, therefore implanting the memory of the "dream" that someone is under your bed that he was ruminating on in the beginning of the episode. She calms him, tells him it's just a dream. Then after he's laid back down she crawls out from under the bed and begins to recite the "fear is your superpower" speech the Doctor gave childhood Danny (Rupert) earlier on (indicating that Clara is actually who he first heard such a thing from), but she delivers it as a dream in a lullabye-like voice, and then she reveals that the barn is the same barn that the Doctor comes to when he is the War Doctor, on the last day of the Time War and that on that day he will be more scared than he has ever been, but that he will make the right decision, and will confront his fear. She then leaves him the heirloom figure that Orson gave her of the soldier with no gun, the soldier who didn't need a gun to be brave and save the planet. Giving him, I assume, the strength to become that man later in life. To confront fear and use it as a superpower.

6. The point of the episode, other than the callbacks to Gallifrey, the connections for Danny and Clara, and even the Doctor's choice between soldier and time lord...is that there never was anything under the bed or on top of it (another kid playing a gag on childhood Danny), or anyone outside Orson's airlock (the hull settling like the Doctor mentions), or indeed under the Doctor's bed (Clara hiding). Fear was the monster in this ep.

There, hope that helps. It was a bit all over the place, but dovetailed nicely in the end.

Also, the wife is convinced that we've hear the female voice that speaks in the barn before, but we can't figure out who it is.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 September 2014 - 12:25 PM

[QuickTidal]

Also, anyone else notice that Orson is clearly wearing a Santuary Base 6 (Series 2 THE IMPOSSBLE PLANET, THE SATAN PIT) space suit? And it's not like he got it from the TARDIS, he is seen wearing it when he sets off from future earth to time travel.

Is it a costume glitch, somethihng timey-wimey, or perhaps he's more connected to the Doctor (through Clara) than we think?

I mean if they just wanted to re-use the costume, why not remove the SB6 patch from the cfront of it?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 September 2014 - 01:57 PM

[bubba]

Outstanding! definitely the best so far. Just finished watching it and I am still processing it in my mind. But very well done.

[Tiste Simeon]

Excellent build up of tension, some laugh out loud moments and a really good concept. Definitely what I have been waiting for this season. Creepy enough to keep me on edge too!

[Coco with marshmallows]

QuickTidal, on 14 September 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Also, the wife is convinced that we've hear the female voice that speaks in the barn before, but we can't figure out who it is.

Female time lord from the Council that advised Wilf?

Can't be many other options.

[QuickTidal]

Possible. But would Moffat want to tie a character into RTD's finale like that? And RTD has gone on record as saying that's the Doctor's mother, so I dunno if Moffat wants to go there? But maybe. He seems to love filling in the Doctor's backstory. So definitely possible.

The wife thinks the womans voice in the end of LISTEN sounded like Jenny from the Paternoster Gang.

Anyways, just re-watched the ep and I've decided it's the best regular episode I've seen in a long while. Possibly better than 90% of Series 7.

When I look back at Capaldi, this will be the ep that really finally won me over to his Doctor.

[Kanubis]

QT, I get the impression that you needed to hear something like his "fear is a superpower" speech before you could finally click with him?

I get that, I suppose I clicked earlier because I assumed it was coming.

[QuickTidal]

Kanubis, on 14 September 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

QT, I get the impression that you needed to hear something like his "fear is a superpower" speech before you could finally click with him?

I get that, I suppose I clicked earlier because I assumed it was coming.

I think that's true indeed. I think it was also his humour in the ep that won me over. He was also sweet to the kid, if stern about his speech.

He was also less put off by Clara's hug in this ep.


But yeah, I needed to see hiw sweeter side to get on board. Now I think I can accept the colder, diagnostician aspect because I know the humour and kindness IS in there somewhere. And Clara keeps correcting him to keep him on the track. Great growth!

I also dont' think I've mentioned that I love the TARDIS interior with all the steps lined with books, and chalkboards everywhere.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 September 2014 - 12:21 AM