[Ain't_It_Just_]

Since when did Spite love Draconus? I never read tha'.

[Seguleh 1st]

i dont know. but what interests me more is that the sisters seem to be named according to a character trait, but whereas it is pretty obvious in the case of envy, spite does not seem very spiteful towards me. of course we got a lot more to read about envy than spite

[Aptorian]

Okay maybe "love" was a strong word, it's never been said she loved here father, but Spite has never been said to have any illwill towards her father and she did blame Envy for his death.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Well, he's back now and now they can be best friends!

As if that'll ever happen!

[Urko Schmurko]

Onos, on Dec 31 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

Hoods_Balls, on Dec 30 2008, 02:53 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Dec 30 2008, 05:58 AM, said:

It was the slaying and drinking of Tiam's blood that forced the rebuking, isn't it?

As for the "Udinaas" view, perhaps because all those "elder forces" were around, Father Light's willing abstaining from being present was his collaborative part?

Edit: Yes, the edur are the youngest. It was only with the conjoining of the Liosan and Andii realms that Emurlahn even became possible.

Yes, Drinking Tiams blood/embracing chaos is what turned mother dark away, it was the betrayal of the Andii/but this was brought on by the Andii's discovery of the Liosan's.

Rake goes to confront MD along with Endest. Rake says i have stopped the civil war, but MD doesnt seem thrilled. Then she says, you arent the only ones any more to make it seem like Rake isnt as smart as he thinks he is. Then he responds, well, while you have been creating others i was already preparing for that. (the Andii need more power to survive in the universe) MD says, oh no, what have you done.... and turns away from the Andii due to the Tiam blood drinking.

Where i still get a little confused was that the Andii already seemed a mess at that point and they were already going crazy since MD left them to hang out with FL. So they were missing her, THEN she totally withdrew from them. OR there was civil war and only then she withdrew from them. Possibly the Endest POVs confused me by not being in the correct order.

This "she totally withdrew from them" or "abandoned" when people are talking about MD is a little confused for me now. When Draconus said he owed Rake an apology because he "snared" MD. How willful was MD's absence from the TA? Looks like she was held somehow with the forging of Dragnipur. But this is being talked about in another thread.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

It's weird that Mother Dark was so powerless in the whole Dragnipur thing...or did she consent to be put in the sword?

If she hadn't gone in, MD would have died from the KCCM's Chaos curse...am I right? Plz plz plz.

"fingers cross"

[Aptorian]

We haven't established a link between chaos and the curse. Chaos chasing darkness is a natural cyckle. I remember some idea about MD becomming bound by time, meaning she seased being an endless/timeless power and became finite. There's also something about her consuming everything she created, sort of a metaphor for her being a black hole from which not even light can escape.

[Andirak]

How old is MD anyway? I get the impression that she is older than Krul & Co., maybe even the first Goddess/Elemental thingie?
SE keeps this so vague I'm reduced to

Whichever Gate was in Dragnipur, I don't understand why it should limit her movements. I thought she was sulking in some corner, purposely ignoring her brood. Yes, Draconus said he snared her, and it seems after her favorite spawn moved the Gate to Black Coral she properly cowed the Dying God by being there in person, but she was hibernating in Aranatha for quite some time before said displacement.

An aside question: who is/will be Knight of Dark and that Dragon Hold (?) now that it's vacant? Can Ruin fill his big bro's shoes?

This post has been edited by Andirak: 17 January 2009 - 08:27 PM

[Aptorian]

Udinass suspects that MD is just a random elemental that brought all the other elementals with her out of chaos. She created the Tiste Worlds. But there's no proof she made Wu.

[Andirak]

Have I mentioned I don't trust Udinaas? Look at me, I know it all and I'm so mysterious...
Not that his cocky attitude means he's wrong, but what does he know about the Tiste? Well, apart from thinking he's got it all figured out...

[Aptorian]

Udinass is the smartest character Erikson has written. He's like a god of common sense and intuition.

[Andirak]

Aptorian, on Jan 17 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

Udinass is the smartest character Erikson has written. He's like a god of common sense and intuition.

You're just saying that, right?

[Aptorian]

Think about it, the guy has no education and has been a slave most of his life. Yet he has a view of the world that cuts right through the veils that layer people lives, he see's through the lies and he is able to deduct truthes from simple observations. Everything he did in MT and RG speaks of a man who is by far too clever for his own good. He says so himself.

Think of his analysing of the Edur people, the story of the "fantasy hero" and his view of the Tiste's creation myths. The things he says, the things he suggests leave Ruin shaken, for he uncovers things that Ruin has never even dared think nor say aloud.

People speak of wanting to see Tehol, Pust and Kruppe meet. I would like to see Udinass read Gothos Folly. Oh the truthes that would be uncovered.

[Andirak]

Aptorian, on Jan 17 2009, 04:43 PM, said:

Think about it, the guy has no education and has been a slave most of his life. Yet he has a view of the world that cuts right through the veils that layer people lives, he see's through the lies and he is able to deduct truthes from simple observations. Everything he did in MT and RG speaks of a man who is by far too clever for his own good. He says so himself.

Think of his analysing of the Edur people, the story of the "fantasy hero" and his view of the Tiste's creation myths. The things he says, the things he suggests leave Ruin shaken, for he uncovers things that Ruin has never even dared think nor say aloud.

People speak of wanting to see Tehol, Pust and Kruppe meet. I would like to see Udinass read Gothos Folly. Oh the truthes that would be uncovered.

Actually I agree that he is indeed very smart, it's just that even Tiste Andii seem to know less (or maybe they are not letting on or they are being willfully ignorant), and seemingly out of nowhere he has all these theories. He doesn't know that many Tiste Andii. But good point about Ruin's reaction, I had totally forgotten that.

[Aptorian]

My guess is that as a slave Udinass was witness to many a night where Edur myths were told or sung. That he combined with what he may have learned from the edur women and what Ruin may have let slip in the year(s) they used travelling into the bluerose mountains.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i always thought that udinaas was a better candidatefor mockra to visit than seren pedac... she's just severely self hating, whereas udinaas is self hating and brilliant

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Andirak, on Jan 18 2009, 08:30 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Jan 17 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

Udinass is the smartest character Erikson has written. He's like a god of common sense and intuition.

You're just saying that, right?

I find Udinaas to be a bit too cynical...like when he kept baiting Fear Sengar in RG. Pissed me off.

But I won't deny he has got brains coming out of his ears (metaphorically speaking)...he's just too miserable for his own good.

[D'rek]

Well, think about Apsalar after GotM, constantly spitting out random bits of Cotillion's knowledge that reveal a heck of a lot. Great, but Dancer was only born maybe 100, 150 years ago at the most? Udinaas was possessed by a Wyval, a miniature dragon thingy that's probably been alive for hundreds of thousands, of not millions, of years. Even if Wyvals/Enkar'als aren't the most sentient of creatures, doesn't mean the knowledge can't pass into Udinaas the same way...

That bit with the blind fish blew my mind.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

What part? Oh right, I have RG right here in front of me. I'll just check...

I knew it, where he extrapolates on Dark/Light/Shadow and all of the big hard-hitting issues present in Malaz.... Another interesting part is his knowledge of elementals...creepy. Udinaas is getting too smart for his own good.