[Terez]

Briar King, on Jan 8 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

In one of the last books, can't remember witch one it mentions another inside Rand's head along with LTT.

That's Moridin, who is Ishamael/Ba'alzamon transmigrated. When he met Rand at Shadar Logoth (when Rand was there to kill Sammael), they crossed the streams of balefire (and yeah, you can bet that's another intentional cultural reference by RJ to Ghostbusters). That was at the end of book 7, and ever since then Rand has been getting dizzy/sick when he channels, and occasionally seeing another face in his head. He recognizes the face (hence the commentary via Lews Therin) but not consciously until Knife of Dreams.

Briar King said:

It was said that it was Lan's cousin, the crazy one.

No, that's Slayer, who appears as Isam (Lan's cousin) in Tel'aran'rhiod, the guy Perrin deals with in The Shadow Rising* (and also Luc, the guy he dealt with in The Two Rivers, but physically they are two different people with two sets of memories etc. despite being amalgamated - the "Dark Prophecy" from The Great Hunt implies that one soul died and one survived, but both personalities are intact).

*I like all the WoT books but The Shadow Rising is still my favorite. It is jampacked with awesome.

[Macros]

Most books have stuff based on real world history and cutlures, that doesnt bother me, Just the use of the ying yang as the main symbol of the whole series for some reason really pisses me off

[Terez]

Macros, on Jan 8 2009, 12:22 PM, said:

Most books have stuff based on real world history and cutlures, that doesnt bother me, Just the use of the ying yang as the main symbol of the whole series for some reason really pisses me off

It's not the main symbol for the whole series. There are a few. That's one of them, and he took it a bit further than its real world symbolism, to separating the white flame (for the White Tower, or the Amyrlin Seat, or just saidar), and the Dragon's fang (for the Shadow instead of for saidin):




and took out the dots to denote imbalance between the powers:



This is another major symbol in the series, also stolen from a few different sources:


This one is the Rising Sun for Cairhien (stolen from Japan in a way):

And "Cairhien" in the Old Tongue means "Golden Dawn", which was totally stolen from this (no coincidence that Cairhien had a sapling from the Tree of Life).

The Dragon isn't exactly original either:


The fact that there aren't actually any such creatures in the world isn't all that original either, since there aren't any in our world either.

[Cougar]

Yeah I think there is lots of stuff you could criticise WoT for but this stuff is integral to the idea RJ had, that thier legends were based on us and ours on them hence a crossover in their world and our culture, of course yin and yang are ripped off, Jordan is saying that our culture is a turn of the wheel and yin and yang is based on our distant memories of the turn of the wheel where we knew about Saidin and Saidar and vice versa.

There are also loads of references to half remembered parts of earth history, in one part one of the girls sees a three pointed symbol reeking of greed (I think in the museum in Tanchico) and people have suggested this is a Mecedes logo, there is the skeleton of a giraffe and mention of stories of Mosk and Merk with their lances of fire which could reach around the world, many readers interpret this as a memory in their time of the cold war where Moscow and America had ICBMs that could reach around the world. There's loads of other stuff too.

This post has been edited by Cougar: 08 January 2009 - 09:51 PM

[Macros]

Terez, I said for some reason, meaning I can't quantify my dislike for it, its and irritational dislike.
And I think the Ying yang is the intergral symbol for the series, the Aes Sedai and male channellers are the key players. so the source is the main thing, and seperrating the flame and the dragons fang, i thought the dragons fang only became associated with evil because of the taint, it wass originaly for the male sid eof the source (i forget names) Even the characteristics of yin and yang are carried through, Yang being the ,masculine, agressive and the like, where as yin is more seductive and nature orientated.

[Terez]

Macros, on Jan 8 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

Terez, I said for some reason, meaning I can't quantify my dislike for it, its and irritational dislike.

Yeah, I know. Just saying.

[Macros]

I sometimes forget the depth of fangirl obsession

[Yellow]

So, Terez, what don't you like about the series?

[drza44]

Re: Faile

I don't hate her per se, though she can be irritating. But what I hate most about her is how she has held back Perrin's development. Up until they got married, Perrin was progressing about as quickly as Mat. Then they married, and Perrin flatlined in "I'm fierce and will do anything for Faile/I don't understand Faile and bumble into an irritating "love" triangle" mode up until Faile got kidnapped. It wasn't until book 11, when Perrin was away from Faile that he began progressing again IMO. I think Faile's character has long played out her usefulness as it pertains to her relationship to Perrin, and I think she would have been a great character death at some point during the rescue attempt. As others have pointed out, the ramifications for what that could have done to Perrin's character are enormous.

Incidentally, the person in that story arc who progressed the most IMO was Berelain. She went from "gold digging potential slut" upon intro of her character to one of the strongest and most interesting female characters in the series by book 11. Whereas the Faile/Perrin relationship has IMO run it's course, the Berelain/Perrin interraction had finally moved beyond juvenille silliness into solid chemistry with decent upside potential by book 11. Clearly Perrin and Faile are reconciled now, and that seems to be what Jordan intended all along, but IMO that was a definite plot thread that could have been much more interesting if one of the main characters would have been allowed to die.

[Terez]

Firefox froze up on me and I hate to force quit, and it ate my Lews Therin post. I've been working on it for 3 days!

[Slum]

Boo, Terez. I was looking forward to reading that. Back to the drafting board with ye, WoT maven...

[Terez]

Slumgullion Spitteler, on Jan 9 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

Boo, Terez. I was looking forward to reading that. Back to the drafting board with ye, WoT maven...

Well, I had previously saved about a third of what I'd written in a Word file. I just hadn't saved it recently. I start the new semester tomorrow, but maybe I can get a bit done on it each day.

BK said:

It will be interesting to see Mat and how he acts in book 12 being married. I know Mat and Tuon have been "together" since book 10 but with it being offical I wonder how much his personality will change.

I don't expect it to change at all - it didn't change while he was courting her, so why should it change now? He will probably be a bit embarrassed when Rand finds out he's married, but beyond that, he'll be the same.

[Pallol One Eye]

DO YOU WANT TO BE IN AMOL

Sanderson, in the Name of Charity, is going to allow the highest bidder to name a character in AMOL, have it be on either the Side of Good or Bad and so on, even down to physical description. Be kind of cool I supppose.

Check his blog for the details.

There is another option for a $20 donation but I don't remember the details.

This should probably be in a thread of its own I suppose.

[Arthur Dayne]

No, really. Who killed Asmodean?

[Terez]

Aviendha.

[Abyss]

Pallol One Eye, on Jan 14 2009, 02:08 PM, said:

DO YOU WANT TO BE IN AMOL

Sanderson, in the Name of Charity, is going to allow the highest bidder to name a character in AMOL, have it be on either the Side of Good or Bad and so on, even down to physical description. ...

You just know that out of spite, someone's going to bid for the opportunity to name a character
D'uuchbaag or something.


- Abyss, is just saay'ing...

[Cougar]

I'd call the character Terez and make her dead argumentative and she'd be all like "you fucking Aes Sedai believing in the creator are all tossers'

[Grief]

Dunno, could be interesting having Perrin meet with a cougar who has an odd eye, and has a long convo, in whihc he is awfully sceptical that Perrin can really talking to wolves...

[HoosierDaddy]

Cougar, on Jan 15 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

I'd call the character Terez and make her dead argumentative and she'd be all like "you fucking Aes Sedai believing in the creator are all tossers'

Yes.

[Terez]

Cougar, on Jan 15 2009, 04:38 PM, said:

I'd call the character Terez and make her dead argumentative and she'd be all like "you fucking Aes Sedai believing in the creator are all tossers'

I'd never use a word like "tossers". And I would never question the existence of the Creator. For one thing, the Creator (RJ) has confirmed it. For another...

The Creator said:

Q: Are there any religions in the world of the Wheel of Time?

RJ: No. No religions, no churches: that will change in the next set of books, not in this, but where religion becomes in some ways preeminent, but...

Q [interrupts]: Oh, is that a spoiler?? No no!

RJ: No, that's not for the Wheel of Time at all, and may change somewhat, as these things do. But the reason is this: I've always believed that our religious rituals our attendance at temples, or churches, or whatever is, in part, a reaffirmation of our faith, and a reaffirmation of our belief , a strengthening of our belief in something that we cannot see. And we do these things in order to strengthen our belief in what we cannot see. God, Allah, whatever...but, in this world, it is a world that...as if we had...prophets walking around...performing miracles. The One Power can be channeled. Occasionally men show up channeling the One Power; the Aes Sedai have been there for 3000 years.

Q: But the Creator does not interfere!

RJ: The Creator does not interfere, but there is clear evidence of the theological doctrine.

Q: Of the unseen.

RJ: Of the unseen. As far as it is believed, of the existence of the Creator: Here is the One Power. Here is evidence of everything we believe. There is therefore no need for anyone to undergo rituals to reaffirm or strengthen their belief because it is manifest every day. If we really had prophets walking among us, performing miracles and healing people and raising the dead - and this was a matter of every day that somebody might walk down the street and say 'In the name of and lay their hand on you. In the name of God be healed and your wounds are healed. Or, In the name of God rise up and walk and your dead brother, just died of cholera or whatever rises up and walks - I believe that organized religion would vanish within a generation , or at least become a fringe within a generation, because there would no longer be a need for most people to reaffirm their belief in God, or to strengthen their belief in God, or Allah, or whatever else their religious belief is. It would be manifest in every day life.

Q: And how about the Whitecloaks? I mean they look like some sort of religious sect.

RJ: Which?

Q (two girls in unison): The Whitecloaks!

RJ: The Whitecloaks? Well, they're meant to look as a religious sect. They began as, an ascetic organization dedicated to preaching against Darkfriends, trying to convince people by example that they should not become Darkfriends. And during the War of the Hundred Years they became a military organization. They are patterned on the Teutonic Knights, a touch of the German SS, and...

Q [interrupts]: And the Spanish Inquisition?

RJ: A touch of the Spanish Inquisition. (laughter) They are in short anyone who believes that they know the Truth - the Truth with a capital T. They know the Truth so well, and its so clear to them that if you don't believe that truth, then it becomes obvious that you are evil.

Now, I would most happily be a character that helped bring down the Whitecloaks, or Masema for that matter, if Galad and Perrin hadn't already sorted them.