[Saf]

I can't remember at all who skinner was. Can someone remind me? and why the undead seguleh was yelling for him?

[Silencer]

I take it you have not read Return of the Crimson Guard?

In any case, he has been mentioned previously. He is one of the Avowed of the Crimson Guard. We don't know why the 2nd wants him so badly, but there's plenty of speculation around.

Skinner was, at least in the past, an approximate match for Dassem. Or so we are told. Now...perhaps. Do read RotCG, though. ^^

[Vallel]

Skinner is a 'sworn' (cant remember the correct term) of the Crimson Guard. Some kind of special status possibly ascended of the elite core of the Crimson Guard.

This post has been edited by Vallel: 17 December 2008 - 07:49 AM

[Saf]

Yea, I'll have to get around to reading that. I've been hesitant to touch the Esselmont books, I have the story from malaz city sitting here waiting for me. Also in Canada at least I haven't see the crimson guard books on the bookstore shelves. Did it just come out?

[Silencer]

Ah, it may not have released in Canada yet. I'm not sure. But it's relatively new (couple of months, from UK).

I would also disagree with Vallel's assessment. I don't think anyone thinks he is the greatest swordsmen in the world...

[Dancer+]

 Silencer, on Dec 17 2008, 05:00 AM, said:

I would also disagree with Vallel's assessment. I don't think anyone thinks he is the greatest swordsmen in the world...

Considering that Skinner was the only Avowed who 'escaped' Dassem's escapades and that Blues, of the guard, is said to be a better swordsmen I can safely conclude that noone thinks he's the greatest either. The word escaped, in itself, heavily implies that he was overmatched.

[Vallel]

Was just going by his references in the malaz books in which he has quite a rep.

This post has been edited by Vallel: 17 December 2008 - 07:46 AM

[blackzoid]

 Dancer, on Dec 17 2008, 06:34 AM, said:

 Silencer, on Dec 17 2008, 05:00 AM, said:

I would also disagree with Vallel's assessment. I don't think anyone thinks he is the greatest swordsmen in the world...

Considering that Skinner was the only Avowed who 'escaped' Dassem's escapades and that Blues, of the guard, is said to be a better swordsmen I can safely conclude that noone thinks he's the greatest either. The word escaped, in itself, heavily implies that he was overmatched.

Sorry Dancer, but you are going to have to give a quote now where it is described that Skinner "escaped" Dassem's grasp.
Cos I sure as hell don't remember it being described as such in the books.

This is the actual quote from NoK
"Dassem had clashed with them for decades--and that alone was enough to give anyone pause regarding their prowess. (..) It was said the Avowed were unstoppable, but Dassem had slain every one who had challenged him: Shirdar, Keal, Bartok. Only Skinner, they say, had come away alive from their clash." (Temper) (NoK, PSP THC, p.24)

Nowhere does it say that Skinner "escaped" him. Follow up comments in RoTCG don't support that idea either.
I can't confirm it as I don't have the book with me, but the impression I got was that Skinner did fight Dassem to a standstill. (Never mind that now he fights like a great big thug)

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 17 December 2008 - 10:08 AM

[Blend]

 Saf, on Dec 17 2008, 04:45 AM, said:

Yea, I'll have to get around to reading that. I've been hesitant to touch the Esselmont books, I have the story from malaz city sitting here waiting for me. Also in Canada at least I haven't see the crimson guard books on the bookstore shelves. Did it just come out?

I live in Ottawa, and I bought my copy off the shelves of a Chapters about three months ago, so yes, it's out!

[Silencer]

Eh, saying that "Only Skinner, they say, had come away alive from their clash" gives no indication as to what state he was in. In fact, it implies that he was lucky to do so.

As for the stuff in RotCG - most of that was Crimson Guard propaganda, you have to remember. Anyway, I don't want to have RotCG spoilers, but just think about it, for a minute.

[blackzoid]

 Silencer, on Dec 17 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

Eh, saying that "Only Skinner, they say, had come away alive from their clash" gives no indication as to what state he was in. In fact, it implies that he was lucky to do so.

As for the stuff in RotCG - most of that was Crimson Guard propaganda, you have to remember. Anyway, I don't want to have RotCG spoilers, but just think about it, for a minute.

Perhaps, but doesn't Temper have a pov passage in Nok where it states that Dassem never spoke about the fight?

And while we only ever hear about how good Skinner is in regards to Dassem/other Avowed, through the thoughts of other Crimson Guard, that goes with the territory. He siimply hasn't been in enough books to get an outsiders perspective of his skills.

My original point was, that nowhere in the text is it stated that Skinner "escaped" him. Its a bit inaccurate to make a sweeping statement, that therefore Skinner was lucky to get out of that fight at all and was completely outmatched by Dassem. There simply is no evidence to make that claim. Skinner faught Dassem, we don't know the particulars, Skinner lived, Dassem never spoke of the fight (I think thats stated in NOK), end of story.

[dktorode]

As far as i am concerned RotCG shows us who the better fighter is...period.

So read it...and all your wildest dreams will come true.

This post has been edited by dktorode: 18 December 2008 - 01:12 PM

[Onos]

 Silencer, on Dec 16 2008, 11:00 PM, said:

Ah, it may not have released in Canada yet. I'm not sure. But it's relatively new (couple of months, from UK).

I would also disagree with Vallel's assessment. I don't think anyone thinks he is the greatest swordsmen in the world...

The release date in Canada was early November though delayed a bit. BTW i am boycotting McNally Robinson for those who live in Canada. I called to check if the book was in and they said we have 30 copies so you will have NO problem getting one. Drive 30 minutes over there and the clerk says... oh, the release date has been pushed back a week... we cant give it to you. They are on the black list now!!

Blackzoid sums up our 'current' knowledge well.

The impression given though in how Skinner is mentioned up to TTHs is that he is the best fighter among the CG

This post has been edited by Onos: 18 December 2008 - 07:16 PM

[Silencer]

I can't recall if he was mentioned by Caladan Brood in MoI. My gut tells me he was not, but I also can't recall is Dassem was. Meh.

And yes, RotCG shows us the real standing. I don't think that you could say Skinner simply hadn't been well-known enough to get publicity from others. The Crimson Guard has been around for 200 or so years, fighting on several continents (although, apparently, never Seven Cities, for some reason).

I'm not saying Skinner is a bad swordsman, he's good, just not as good as a large number of others. And certainly, no-one thinks he is the best.

[End of Disc One]

The CGmen in Midnight Tides imply that Skinner is their best. Don't have a quote, sorry.

[Silencer]

Yes, but their best is somewhat meaningless when there are beings like Anomander Rake, etc.

Anyway - want to know more about Skinner? Find out how good he really is? Read RotCG. It's the only way.